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There are a lot of venezuelans inmigrants where I live who are extremely against Maduro and the reason most of them supported US sanctions is because they thought it would be final push for the ousting of Maduro, the one thing that would make the military leaders flip; no one really wanted a long embargo and the suffering of their families. What's happening right now is the worse scenario for them, Maduro still in power and US hawks thinking about war
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Aug 14, 2019 21:20
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| # ¿ May 13, 2024 23:06 |
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I can only speak from my peruvian perspective but even the communist/socialist parties here had to admit (some later than sooner) that yeah, Maduro's regime was catastrophically bad even before US sanctions; but the thing is, hawkish, overt american interventionism is seen as waaaaaay worse. Even Anti-Chavez/Maduro people were dismayed by Trump butting in because they knew it would be a mess and ta da!
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Aug 15, 2019 03:24
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BigFactory posted:International pressure is stronger than US pressure, especially since he’s been negotiating with UN member states who signed on to proposed resolutions. International pressure WAS working until the latest US involvement. The electoral tides turned right-wing in most of south america (and even fashy in Brazil) and Maduro barely had any allies left when they used to count on Brazil, Ecuador, Bolivia, Uruguay and Argentina. Brazil and Colombia were saber-rattling. Things looked grim for Maduro and maybe it was a matter of time before he bolted out. Sadly, US involvement made even staunchly anti-Chavismo guys take pause because noone (except actual psycopaths) wants a hell-war in our region and Trump being Trump, you kinda learn to distrust everything he says and supports
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Aug 15, 2019 18:38
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BigFactory posted:Shouldn’t that ramp up pressure then? Why would anyone want to be on trumps radar? I think we have different concepts of "pressure". What I meant is pressuring the Maduro goverment into giving up, call elections or just plain abandoning Venezuela and having regional and global groups observe new fairer elections and the reconstruction of the country, because the opposition in Venezuela is too weak. I believe other countries in the region have the power to enact pressure this way because they are neighbours and peers Venezuela has to deal with for trade, diplomacy, assistance, etc. I don't believe US sanctions and the spectre of military intervention help in this regard because they just pressure Maduro and the military heads into being more entrenched, as they see no way out
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Aug 15, 2019 19:32
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Noshtane posted:Venezuelans are dying by the thousands and fleeing by the millions due to Maduro but you wouldn’t protest him because bolsonarists might use such a protest to own the libs? As someone who lives in a country bordering Brasil I'm afraid Bolsonaro is crazy enough to start a war and try to involve the whole region
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Aug 16, 2019 17:43
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BigFactory posted:The dudes posting in this thread all seem to really, really like him It’s weird. I think it needs to be pointed out that a good portion of the latin american left is pretty chuddie: Homophobic, Misogynist, Nationalistic, Militaristic, Chauvinist, etc. We call the old-guard "the dinosaurs" and the young chuddie-lefties "Machoprogres". "Fatherland or death" is an actual cry of the left here and they totally resent the "New Left" that is more progressive, calling them postmodernists, sjws and other alt-right terms Guess which portion of the latinamerican left supports Maduro the most?
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Aug 16, 2019 17:51
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Truga posted:yes. i'm not as much of a hardliner as condiv, though i sure as hell get his position. I personally know Venezuelans refugees and I've seen the situation deteriorating for many years. Is not really a debate, it was bad, very very bad, before US sanctions. Hell, back when Chavez was in power and peruvians were travelling TO Venezuela to work because there was loads of money there, even lefty types here were worried because Chavez was running a dictablanda, a soft autocracy, and we know one because we've lived one with Fujimori in the 90s. The writing was on the wall with the overreach of executive power, corruption and dependancy on oil money. He have over half a million venezuelan refugees in my city, most of them being exploited or begging in the streets, most of them came before US sanctions, it's really loving bad
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Aug 18, 2019 06:50
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Tollymain posted:if 90% of venezuelans wanted him gone, hed be gone, dipshit It's more like 50% of venezuelans wanted him gone in a certain point of time, threw huge marches, lost because they don't have tanks and left the country, so there's little political will left. Chavez/Maduro is akin to a natural disaster, you can't fight it, just look for a way to move on. When the first waves of venezuelan refugees came here, they were very political, attacking Maduro all the time, etc. The Guaido business was the high point, a lot of them thought that it was THE moment, but alas, the guy had the charisma and political acumen of a potato and US foreign policy under Trump is all bark and no bite. Now the venezuelans I meet don't talk politics anymore, they kinda accepted that they will live in Peru for a long time or eventually move to a better place, it's pretty sad, but is not uncommon here in Latin America. Most of my family left for other countries in the 80s and early 90s during the Aprocalipsis. What's uncommon is how long and how deep the venezuelan crisis has gone
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Aug 28, 2019 19:09
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| # ¿ May 13, 2024 23:06 |
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Despite me being against Chavez and Maduro, yeah, the cartoons were racist. I can't say 100% whats the deal with Venezuelan brand of racism but in large parts of latin america is a perfidious blend of class, heritage, skin-tone and caste whose closest US analogue would be "colorism." Xenophobia against venezuelans here got bigger when poorer (and browner/blacker) venezuelans started coming and some whiter venezuelans I've talked to rail against their (((poorer))) compatriots. You see, when a dark skinned person in latin america is called a monkey, a lot of people laugh and don't consider it racist (despite being really racist) because they still consider that person "one of our own", unlike the segregated societies of the global north. That's why you get racism between siblings. But it's still really racist, causes a lot of social problems and foments discrimination because it regards whiter skin and european look as better and more desirable than darker skin and native/afro looks. I mean, we still can't get this guy out of TV
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Aug 31, 2019 18:29
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