Venezuela: The Empanada Summit

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Venezuela: The Empanada Summit

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

Friendly Humour posted:

Here's an example of a Jacobin magazine article fairly critical of PSUV

You know, it is actually possible to include both criticism and support for a thing in the same publication.

Jacobin is actually very good. Unfortunately they do have very embarrassing articles by some contributors. Venezuela is by far the biggest offender. But over the past year or so they have taken a 180.

# ¿ Dec 7, 2016 16:34

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# ¿ May 22, 2024 05:38

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

Chuck Boone posted:

Worse: the PSUV has destroyed the Venezuelan economy. What's more austere than bankrupting a nation? If you name me a PSUV social welfare program you'll be naming a program that has failed due to corruption and mismanagement. Just today, the Venezuelan Medical Association said that the public healthcare system is "bankrupt", and that patients have to bring their own medical supplies to public healthcare centres because medical supplies/medicine are experiencing scarcity rates of 97%.

The people who have had the Kool-Aid will tell you all sorts of wonderful things about how expansive the public healthcare system is in the country, but the reality is that it - along with virtually every other social welfare program in the country - exists only on paper now. The devastation that the PSUV has wrought is difficult to put into words.

Going bankrupt is basically austerity. Especially since a nation can't go bankrupt due to public debt. The PSUV could just enact a huge stimulus to jump start the Venezuelan economy, unfortunately there still is the problem with mass mismanagement.

Chuck Boone posted:

The thing that irks me about Jacobin is that the stuff that I've looked at reads like French Revolution fan fiction. I just can't read past the flowery, loaded language I've seen in their articles. Admittedly, all of the stuff I've read from them is on Venezuela, which you say might not be particularly good, so maybe that's it.

There previous coverage on Venezuela is terrible. But they seem to have turned a new leaf with the country and their excerpts elsewhere are really good. Especially the United States.

# ¿ Dec 7, 2016 20:24

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

catfry posted:

If the debt is denominated in Bolivars, sure they can just wait for inflation to diminish it to nothing, or just get more bolivars from the central bank. If the debt is denominated in foreign currency, they can absolutely come in a situation where they cannot pay and will enter default.
If all the resources and goods that were needed could be sourced within Venezuela, sure stimulus might help. Unfortunately in most cases you would need foreign resources, machinery and goods, and for that you need foreign currency.

Yes, that's what I meant by private debt. As in not held in Venezuelan currency and/or produced by the Venezuelan government.

owDAWG posted:

Stimulus only works if you have a lot of foreign reserve currency, have good public debt credit rating, or have an economy that can produce everything you need.

You can either use foreign currency to buy the stuff you need(raw materials, food and medicine) from other countries or have your economy produce everything you need.

This is an excellent point. Unlike the United States and many other nations, Venezeula lacks several materials and resources. If only the PSUV spent time investing in creating proper infrastructure to create those resources rather than moved the money around the manner that they did.

EDIT - Just looked it up and it is as I suspected, Venezuela's debt is primarily foreign.

punk rebel ecks fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Dec 8, 2016

# ¿ Dec 8, 2016 03:29

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

Wonder what Venezuelans think of this article.

https://jacobinmag.com/2017/05/unfinished-business

# ¿ May 23, 2017 02:08

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

Rutibex posted:

The problem wasn't price controls destroying the economy, it was the failure to go full Stalin and nationalize literally everything! Because that worked so great for the soviet economy

In the article's defense, it targets price controls specifically in it.

# ¿ May 23, 2017 04:55

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

Chuck Boone posted:

Jacobin is so far up its own butt in dogma that it's hard for me to get through their articles.

A couple of points on this one: I cringe every time I heard the term "the right-wing opposition". You almost always hear it from places like Jacobin and Venezuelanalysis because, well, that's just how their dogmatic compasses are set. The Venezuelan opposition is "anyone who isn't the PSUV", and to suggest that ~80% of the country is "right wing" is absurd. Also, the MUD (the official political opposition bloc) is made up of something like 30 parties, some of which are centre-left. "Right-wing opposition" really means "fascist".

I mean, where does this assertion come from? What observations has this author made to lead him to this conclusion? What is this statement based on other than a blind, unquestioning underlying belief that "we = good, they = bad"?:

I had a bunch more stuff typed out but I deleted it. I just have a hard time reading the article without rolling my eyes every two paragraphs.

I'm not going to lie. I knew it was crap, I just wanted to see you rip it to shreds. :P

# ¿ May 24, 2017 03:21

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

Chuck Boone and Labradoodle, would you be interested in me interviewing you for my podcast for an episode about Venezuela?

Chuck Boone posted:

Yeah, seriously. If your starting point is that the other guys are fascists, it's no wonder that you end up arguing "Yeah, our guys are doing a pretty terrible job, but the other guys would be worse, believe me!". Not terribly compelling.

In Jacobin's defense, they have pretty good domestic articles about the United States. They are terrible internationally, even in regards to Western Europe.

# ¿ May 24, 2017 20:32

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

I can post my email if you want but I'd prefer to communicate on Discord?

# ¿ May 25, 2017 16:04

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

Chuck Boone posted:

Sure! That works too. I have my Discord info on my profile here.

I don't see it on your profile.

Just click this link and join my Discord.

https://discord.gg/fPaFa5T

# ¿ May 26, 2017 02:46

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

Labradoodle posted:

Thanks! I'm not much of a public speaker though so you should stick with Chuck. Plus, he's more informed than most people on what's going on so you'll have plenty to discuss.

Honestly, I want you to be on as well. Specifically because you are on the ground floor of it all.

Click the discord link above!

# ¿ May 26, 2017 23:43

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

So I'll be doing my podcast show on Tuesday at 9:00pm Central time. Labradoodle are you available then? If not, then when?

# ¿ Jun 10, 2017 17:25

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

Labradoodle posted:

Sorry man, I'm really not comfortable speaking in public. Thanks for the offer, though.

Have things really gotten that bad there that you are afraid you will be taken away by the Maduro secret police? Or is the context of the post is that you just have stage fright?

Either way, I was hoping you would come on, but it's your choice. I hope you enjoy listening to the finished product.

# ¿ Jun 11, 2017 06:11

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

Labradoodle posted:

Oh man, yeah that sounded like I was paranoid! Sorry about that, it's just that I don't like speaking in public. People criticize the government online every minute of every day, I doubt they'd care about another negative podcast enough to send in their goons

Ok that's fine. As I said I really would like to have you become you seem so knowledgeable and informed. Plus you are "on the ground" of it all. But either way, thanks for your consideration.

# ¿ Jun 11, 2017 16:50

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

My interview with Chuck is up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk5SxqqSRC4

# ¿ Jun 14, 2017 05:23

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

punk rebel ecks posted:

My interview with Chuck is up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk5SxqqSRC4

No comments?

# ¿ Jun 24, 2017 22:43

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

Saladman posted:

Do you have a transcription? I hate listening to / watching interviews since I can read the same amount of text about 5 times faster than listening to it.

No, sorry.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2017 02:05

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

I was once told by a Venezuelan that it is impossible as an employer to fire your employees, is that true?

# ¿ Feb 20, 2018 10:18

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

Preen Dog posted:

According to this site, employers can only fire people for a very serious infraction, like violence or chronic absence. Redundancy or cost-cutting are not acceptable reasons. The employer has to notify a Labor Court of the dismissal, and the employee can contest it. Don't know if this applies to everyone, or just some segments of the workforce.

https://gettingthedealthrough.com/area/18/jurisdiction/24/labour-employment-venezuela/

Other goodies include: 1 month of severance pay for each year worked, mandatory pay for overtime, sick pay, vacation time, and pay for upholding a non-compete agreement. If only the money could buy stuff.

I see. Do you agree with these terms?

# ¿ Feb 20, 2018 21:29

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

Thanks for the response Saladman.

I'm curious though, why is Bolivia doing relatively well being that they followed the same type of left wing populism as Venezuela?

# ¿ Feb 20, 2018 22:20

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

Serious question, why don't all the citizens just storm the Presidential Palace at this point?

# ¿ Feb 22, 2018 18:35

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

Pharohman777 posted:

Saw a thing in the Wall Street Journal today that apparently Maduro announced a gold-backed cryptocurrency on wednesday.

Normally it would sound too crazy to be true, but given how crazy the venezuelan government has acted, I will just accept it as something that happened.

They keep saying they're socialist, yet they keep doing right wing things, like adopting the gold standard.

punk rebel ecks fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Feb 25, 2018

# ¿ Feb 24, 2018 20:13

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

M_Gargantua posted:

Adopting the gold standard isn't a left wing thing though...

Meant to say"right wing". Sorry for the typo. I wrote that on my phone.

# ¿ Feb 25, 2018 04:00

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

Is it wrong if I feel that race has something to do with the PSUV's rise? I recall a lot of people who loved Chavez was due to him "being proud of his roots", and a lot of detractors pointing out how they had the rise of the topic of racism being more prevelent

# ¿ Feb 26, 2018 20:20

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

For reference, here is an interview I did with Chuck Boone some months ago if you want more of his insights:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk5SxqqSRC4

Chuck Boone posted:

No, that's spot on. Chavez represented a huge segment of the Venezuelan population (namely the poor and the non-white) that had been locked out of politics for decades.

I see. And "had" was I typo, I meant "hated", as in a share of the opposition hated Chavez because he represented THOSE people.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2018 21:26

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

Democracies gradually sliding into authoritarianism before people know it, reminds me of Chuck saying that we in America should be worried about Trump.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2018 23:23

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

Does Labradoodle still post here or is his area in a permenant black out?

Chuck Boone posted:

I should also clarify that Venezuela does not have anything like an electoral college. The person who gets the most votes wins.

This is usually a good thing.

# ¿ Feb 27, 2018 00:13

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

Labradoodle posted:

Hey man, thanks for worrying! I left a little over a month ago and am now living in Buenos Aires, so no more blackouts for me (hopefully).

Oh so you didn't go to America.

How you liking Argentina?

# ¿ Feb 27, 2018 18:33

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

I consider countries like Venezuela and Cuba as Socialist as ancient Rome and Napoleon were Democratic.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2018 21:33

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

Pharohman777 posted:

Venezuela really got into socialism, but it forgot what it had to do with its industries after the step of 'seize the means of production'. Something about running those industries just as or more efficiently? Nah, they got oil to pay for imports, the price of oil will never go down!

They messed up by not giving the workers and the local community population power, rather than the political party.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2018 23:33

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

wdarkk posted:

Isn't this what always happens though?

Not always. Look at Bolonga, Italy. But yes, similar to Democracy up until the 1800s, Socialism so far results in consolidated power.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2018 23:50

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

I meant they messed up in terms of actually doing Socialism.

# ¿ Mar 1, 2018 00:24

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

Maybe I should go down to Venezuela and investigate his disappearence?

# ¿ Mar 2, 2018 17:20

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

Saladman posted:

Go for it. Just PM someone your personal information before you go so that they can report back if you're murdered for your cell phone and $25.

(Don't actually go for it.)

E: Unless you're actually Venezuelan and are from or near Maracaibo, in which case that actually would be kind of nice.

My plan is to fly to Venezuela blindly and then roam the streets while asking random strangers "Do you know where El Hefe is?" in broken Spanish, until I find him.

# ¿ Mar 2, 2018 19:24

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

Would the Venezuelan public be in favor of U.S. military intervention?

# ¿ Mar 13, 2018 19:03

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

I mean I can't imagine it being too bad.

Imagine the U.S. military simply bombing the surrounding area of the presidential palace and have tens of thousands of troops march through the streets as they kill the biker gangs and escort citizens to safety.

# ¿ Mar 13, 2018 23:47

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYfgvS0FA7U

# ¿ May 15, 2018 01:44

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

I mean Bolivia did a similar economic model to Venezuela and isn't on fire.

# ¿ May 24, 2018 19:26

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

If it helps, I'm part of the Democratic Socialists of America and always point out to people how the PSUV is poo poo whenever the topic comes up. Of course the first defense is "do you know what Venezuela was like BEFORE the PSUV!?"

# ¿ May 25, 2018 07:55

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

If I go to Venezuela with $1000, does that make me a millionaire?

# ¿ May 30, 2018 22:26

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# ¿ May 22, 2024 05:38

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

madeintaipei posted:

Not for long.

I'll just buy a few cars and then drive them up to America and sell them for profit.

# ¿ May 30, 2018 22:31

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