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Alright I'm going to pop back into yet another Venezuela thread and try to not get frustrated when other goons try to convince me Chavez was a pretty good guy. I'm yet another Venezuelan ex-pat, posting from Spain! my wife and I traveled back there on March 2015 after 5 years away and it was completely depressing after living in a "first-world country". Back when we left we thought things couldn't get much worse and it turns out things can always get shittier. Anyway, I understand this is not the place for posting E/N crap. I just wanted to point out a few things about the current colombian-venezuelan discussion, mostly to give some perspective in case you don't know all of this stuff. Way back then, 80's and 90's when I was a baby and a toddler respectively, Venezuelans were pretty biased against Colombians. My understanding is that a lot of Colombians had traveled to Venezuela following the Oil rush, as one could guess, and often they were treated pretty bad. Not full on ghettos and racism, but there was a lot of bad blood and stereotyping. I'm guessing it would be very similar to American-Mexican relations, mild racism and loaded jokes. Thankfully that got downplayed as timed passed by, since after all Venezuela is an immigrant heavy country and we're pretty used to living along several different ethnicities. That said, there's still some deep seated feeling of superiority in the Venezuelan's collective mind about Colombia. Hell, a LOT of people I know personally attacked Maduro because of being Colombian, very much alike Americans attacking Obama for being "a Muslim" which I thought was funny in a sad way. Also, when Chavez arrived the political relations with Colombia started suffering pretty hard, mostly thanks to the latter's friendliness with the US government, which you might've heard was Chavez favorite enemy. The Xenophobia is nothing new, just a resurgence. Now, since ever, Colombia-Venezuela borders have been a smuggling hotspot. When the current state of affairs started (mainly speaking about the horrible scarcity of products and the currency control) things got even more out of control. There were cars with extra gas tanks going out of Venezuela in order to resell gas for a giant markup, then coming back with clothes, food and hygiene products. Selling those things on the street is known as "Bachaqueo" and can get you in jail in minutes if you're not too careful, but you can basically earn a full month of minimum wage in a single day by reselling shampoo. I have no idea why the border has been kept open so long, really, considering how things work. And a third-party anecdote: My friends currently living in Colombia are getting harassed pretty hardcore since this all started, too. One of them told me she was goint to quit her job because of it and all. What goes around comes around I guess, but then again Venezuelans are starting to get a well deserved infamy in the wole world, anyway.
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Aug 27, 2015 12:16
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Chuck Boone posted:One aspect of the border issue that hasn't been pointed out (perhaps because it's so obvious) is that Venezuelan authorities themselves are involved in the smuggling taking place there. Oh, well, yes actually I didn't mention it because it's ingrained in my brain that everything bad going on in Venezuela always has the military somewhere profiting from it. Chuck Boone posted:Welcome, camarada! I think you'll be surprised by how attitudes have changed since Maduro came along. I'm pretty relieved actually. Chavez was very smart about his international approach and way too many people found it easy to agree with him demonizing the US. While I have absolutely no love for Chavez and makes me want to believe in afterlife just to have the comfort that he's burning in hell for all eternity, I can understand people that were sympathetic out of ignorance. Watching people react to his discurse has actually made me question my own opinions about everything I don't personally know. But yeah Maduro is just such a loving clown. It's pretty much the same case as Kim Jong-un, a caricature of an unbalanced dictator that just can't fool anyone at this point. My political inclinations bend left a lot more than right and most of the people I've known in Spain share that, and I've had just so many arguments about Chavez and chavism, but when it reaches Maduro, well, now we can all agree on something. So thanks Nicolás for making me fight a lot less with my friends! Anyway, for those who know some spanish and haven't run into this, there's a Spanish Tv Show called "en Tierra Hostil" -in hostile lands- that has the newsteam running around dangerous places and trying to show them as they "really are". They have a pretty scary and surreal show in North Korea, and there's this one in Venezuela. Obviously there's plenty of editing and they mostly speak to Spaniards and middle-class folks, but it's a decent enough peek. We actually arrived from our trip there just as this was airing on TV and thought it was pretty boring compared to everything we had seen. Man they didn't even rob them in Caracas, that's some luck.
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Aug 27, 2015 13:21
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The problem is, while "Basic products" are cheap, they are almost impossible to get. In March I did about 10 hours of waiting in line with my mom in the two weeks I was there, just so I could buy milk, chicken, deodorant and toothpaste (among other, less scarce things). In fact, when I was going back there, I asked my friends and family what did they want from Spain that I could bring with me. You'd think Spanish products such as cured meats or wine would be the regular gifts. Nope, I brought with me around 20 deodorants. I gave away deodorants like some kind of speed stick santa claus. What actually ends up happening is that people without jobs do long hours in line, even days beforehand, in order to buy as much basic products as they can get away with. Then, they resell them for ten, twenty times more money to people who have decent works, but no time to do lines. Then while 1kg of rice may cost 9BsF , unless you're really lucky you end up paying at least 100 to get it, from the hands of a reseller (or bachaquero). ninjaedit: Both my mom (who's upper middle class) and my mother in law (poor-ish) have developed the same hoarding impulses due to this. Open the fridge and there's kilos of uncooked frozen meat, cans and cans of coke, two unopened packages of salt, etc. If you find something in the store you better buy it even if you don't need it right now because tomorrow there might be no way to find sugar in the whole city. The prices are ridiculous. As in I was constantly with my mouth hanging after asking for the price of things. A thousand Bolivares for a hamburguer. Two thousand in groceries for my mom and dogs alone. Five years ago we could eat with 120 BsF. The best part is that the highest bill is 100, so you can imagine how fun was to carry around enough cash for lunch. It was basically monopoly money and everytime I had to take out my wallet and count 30 bills to pay for a round of beers for five friends it just got weirder. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGQMLfZ5zbM This video is from 2014 and shows a bunch of people running across town because milk just arrived to the store. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdz_O6VcFoo Line to buy chicken. Phlegmish posted:It's interesting to hear that Venezuelans have a superiority complex towards Colombians, I assume it's due to their history as an oil-rich state. I also assume that they're starting to have a hard time keeping it up, considering the current state of their economy. I don't think Colombians have to stand in line for toilet paper. Yep, and the worst part about it is that we're just getting worse. Many, many venezuelans leaving the country develop an even more inflated sense of self and arrive to their new home feeling cocky and superior to everyone else. They speak of the people remaining there with disdain and even insult the citizens of their new country. There's thousands of venezuelans living in Panama now that treat Panamanians as "uneducated indians". It's like the further we get from our previous state of privileged, rich country, the biggest assholes we become trying to compensate for it. Obviously it's just a generalization, from my personal observations. edit: Venegoons, don't be like that when you leave. Please. Pleaaase?? Hugoon Chavez fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Aug 27, 2015 |
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Aug 27, 2015 17:06
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Chuck Boone posted:Another point of reference: the minimum monthly salary in Venezuela is Bs. 7,421.67. Whenever it's increased (and it's increased quite often), Maduro and the PSUV like to go on about how Venezuela has the greatest, most frequent increases to minimum wage because they put the workers first, etc. Inflation is so out of control that the increases aren't even close to keeping up with it. They're meaningless gestures. Ah yes, the claim that Venezuela has the highest salary is such an outright lie that's insulting. That claim is done with the official exchange rate for dollars. At of this moment, the official exchange rate of Bolivars to the dollar is: 6.35 bsf = 1$. Base salary by this exchange: 1168$ The actual exchange rate people can trade for: 714,90 BsF = 1$. Base salary by this exchange: 10.39$ This is why it's simply better to quit your job and go resell stuff. When I was there I was very surprised to see every store and business hiring. Why? Well, a store clerk makes 7k a month, but if he lucks out and manages to buy, say, twenty packs of toilet paper, he can sell that poo poo (paper) for 200 Bs a piece. That's half their salary in what, a week of work if he hits the street to sell the toilet paper? And that's only one product. quote:
A venezuelan will always be one of the two. Either hard-working, good people, or opportunistic assholes. We're almost always good for a laugh no matter what, though. Edit: I think Panama and Miami are just the "easy" ways out right now, and that's why many of the worse Venezuelan migrating end up there. Hugoon Chavez fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Aug 27, 2015 |
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Aug 27, 2015 17:39
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My Imaginary GF posted:Seems like things can only get worse for Venezuela, as Venezuelan expats are cut off from being able to provide hard currency in the form of remittances from their new nations of residence to their Venezuelan relatives and friends. At this point things will be way worse before they start improving, yes. I actually manage to send money back to our families by selling euros here to other venezuelan ex-pats and having them use their funds still tyied in Venezuela to deposit the equivalent amount to my mom and mother in-law. I also know some people that are traveling back there this month and I'm sending some too. It's cool because my mother in-law is moving to Santo Domingo with her other daughter so that's one less thing to worry about. She has been kidnapped and her home broken into twice in the past year! Gozinbulx posted:Edit: I like the way you guys fill arepas with lots of stuff though Yes this is our gift to the world, and don't let Colombians tell you that they invented Arepas. It's a lie and theirs are inferior to ours. See I also have a superiority complex, just about food. Because it's better.
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Aug 28, 2015 08:04
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Chuck Boone posted:The article claims that a guide to lead you to the border costs Bs. 2,000, and that the guides charge Bs. 700 per person to cover the bribes for Venezuelan guards As a comparison, I payed 3000 Bs for a trustworthy guy to Taxi me from Caracas to the airport, which is about 40 minutes away.
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Aug 29, 2015 00:57
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A friend pointed this one out to me and I though it illustrates pretty well the hypocrisy that had been post of the chavist movement since the beginning but that is so evident now. Maduro heavily criticizes Trump and calls him a bandit and a bully, then goes ahead and deports a bunch Colombians and mocks them on TV. It has always been like that, point the finger at the big bad USA and play the just underdog that is not afraid of the big bully, while on their own soil they do ten times worst. It's just that Maduro is too dumb to play the game properly.
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Aug 30, 2015 00:18
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Toilet paper becomes incredibly valuable when you can't find toilet paper. You can't wipe your rear end with cigarettes and if you put booze down there it's gonna end up clean but you aren't going to enjoy it.
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Aug 30, 2015 11:25
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PerpetualSelf posted:Colombia has now decided to offer free Colombian citizenship to all Venezuelans. Oh man you're hosed, specially because a lot of "undesirable" people will take that chance to go and live somewhere else, and by undesirable I mean either criminals, people with no education, or just venezuelans wanting to be charity parasites. People with educations or means are already somewhere else or just can't move. Labradoodle posted:The reporters say that "venezuelans will be given colombian citizenship" but the colombian minister says pretty clearly that their aim is to keep families together, so spouses and family members of colombians will be free to apply for citizenship. Now this is a lot more sensible, and a pretty cool move. It's not like spouses and close families of colombians would've had a hard time moving there but outright getting citizenship means any colombian in Venezuela can move back to their country for their own good, with their loved ones. PerpetualSelf posted:I think this is a dangerous precedent as a Colombian i'm not in favor of it. It could lead to a massive invasion of Venezuelans in Colombia that could overload all our social safety nets and infrastructure. This is kidna dumb though. Really, go to war? I'll point out once again that when things were really lovely in Colombia, there was a massive Colombian exodus to Venezuela and while some people back then (and, looks like, right now) were against it, I think both countries are too close in culture and geography to not be as friendly as possible with each other. Hell my dad was Colombian (but I never knew the guy  ) so I'm glad the migrations happened.Fuschia tude posted:And she's OK? Are they very courteous kidnappers in Venezuela? There are a lot of kidnappings in Venezuela, and specially in Caracas. She was just returning from visiting her other daughter in Santo Domingo, and the taxi she had reserved to take her from the airport to my mom's house failed her, so a Military guard working at the airport found her a Taxi. Well, turns out the taxi did a loop, the soldier that had called it jumped in, and they kidnapped her. She gave her a few dollars she had left, they took her suitcase and took her picture threatening that if she told anyone they would kill her and her family, and dropped her in the highway. Luckily another Taxi saw her and brought her to my mom's home (and charged my mom 5 times more than the usual fare) All in all not bad for a kidnapping. A couple I'm friends with got their house broken into, they got tied and threatened and the guys doing the robbery actually got away in their own car, with their things and their loving dog. Good news was that two years later they found the dog in an open market.
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Aug 31, 2015 07:59
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You guys asked about our experience voting in Venezuela: It is true that traditionally voting takes place in schools around here. You are assigned a school near you when you register to the CNE and vote there on election day. I've voted three times in Venezuela and one in Spain. My first vote I believe was in the referendum, the voting that took place when Chavez had completed half his first period, and it went ok. Back then things weren't so delicate. The next voting process was very different. First of all, chavist political propaganda in voting centers is nothing new, since at that point public schools were encouraged (required?) To hang pictures of Chavez along with the very standard picture of Simon Bolivar in every classroom. Weirdly enough, political propaganda for the opposition was banned, and it got so ridiculous that they wouldn't let you view if you had a flag, or clothes representing it. That second time my grandma was offered help to use tree voting machine by the functionaries wearing Red shirts v and chavist motives. And when I say offered I mean heavily, they insisted on going to the voting machine with her and use it in her stead. My own complicated experience was going to view and having to run away when guys in motorcycles surrounded my voting school and started singing pro chavist songs and shooting in the air. Had to come back later in the day and voted normally.
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Sep 2, 2015 08:47
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My Imaginary GF posted:I suppose the question is, as you reflect back upon your experiences, at what point could Venezuela's slide into authoritarianism no longer be halted, and what is the best vaccination for other developing nations against irresponsible actors like Chavez? I'm not smart enough or I haven't studied the right things to give an answer I could feel completely secure with, but I'll give my personal opinions: I think Chavez was inevitable. Ever since our last dictator, the right-winged Marcos Pérez Jiménez, we had a bipartidist system that was clearly corrupted. We were still pretty high on our own oil fumes back then and the government in general gave 0 shits about the lower class, which was a big part of the population. When Chavez came around, first trying to do a military coup to a president that was famous for his corruption and greed, and then as the first strong candidate that wasn't part of the two usual parties, it was already a very interesting option for many Venezuelans. Add to that the fact that he knew how to talk to the lower class, and actually included them in his discourse and it was pretty clear why he won. A leftist bend to the government could bring many improvements to the general populace (and, in fact, it did). So, Chavez was just the result of years and years of poor rulership. Things started to get weird once he turned away from many crucial promises in his campaign promises. The first big warning sign was, to me, the new constitution. I think anyone should be wary of a president that changes the laws of a nation to his benefit, but at that point he was still proving himself and his followers strong as ever, so it passed. This made possible infinite reelections, a longer presidential period, and even reset his presidency since it forced new elections. We had three national votes in as many years, for Presidency, Constitution, and new Presidency. Another warning sing at this point was how he started to divide the country in Chavist and The Enemy. The old constitution, one that he had held in high regard and praised during his campaign, was now being called "La moribunda" (the dying one). People speaking up against his ideas were insulted on national TV and called enemies of the people, etc. Of everything he did, dividing the country was the biggest aggravator and the thing that will hurt the country the most. To me, even this early, that was the point of no return. Once he could change the constitution and make it "His" then everything was fair game. Even breaking the laws he set up himself, later on, was just a consequence of giving him free reign to change our fundamental laws. Now, I think as a country, the point where everyone lost hope and just surrendered was when he won the 2012 election against Henrique Capriles. I had no doubt that would be the case but Capriles was the last hope for many. To this day I doubt you'll find a non chavist Venezuelan that doesn't think the election was rigged, and scores of incidents and irregularities plagued the vote. Everyone was claiming for Capriles to "man up" and contest the results, but at the end he decided to just peacefully disagree with the result, to a bunch of empty words and weak manifestations that obviously led nowhere. And as for other nations, funny that you mentioned it. I'm living in Spain and this past year I've seen how Podemos has started to get traction and I've been able to compare it to Chavism. It's all the same play with different actors, with the radical difference that most Spaniards don't consider themselves to be third class citizens like Venezuela's poor, and for that reason didn't flock to Podemos with the same fervor. Thankfully Podemos has lost lots of ground and I won't have to move again. After seeing all that, I think Chavez and Podemos are just natural consequences of years of bad government and rampant corruption. The people are often ignored and it gets to a point where the citizens that have been marginalized outnumber those living comfortably, and at that point it just takes a strong leader to use their vote and change the country's course, to good or ill. The best way to avoid it? Governments placing their citizens first and making the status quo at least good enough for most.
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Sep 2, 2015 11:46
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Tony_Montana posted:gently caress off with the hipocrisy Basically. It never gets old when armchair communists try to somehow defend the Chavist movement because it uses the same terms they love so much and likes to point at popular enemies of the leftist movement. I always think the same: go live in Caracas for two months and see if you come back still thinking Venezuela is an example. Even if they ideology wasn't pure smoke and mirrors and they truly were committed to the people's well being, then they would still be completely incompetent and have no business running a country. It's really loving easy to take the Chavist side because it presses all the right buttons in your ideology. What, actually investigate and listen to what people that actually are living/lived under that rule are saying? nah, dude, he mocked Bush, he's a hero. edit: the biggest hypocrisy I keep seeing is whenever people accuse the media. If they're talking poo poo about Venezuela's government then obviously they are right winged puppets trying to brainwash the masses. Oh, but when Chavez closes a TV channel because it decided to interrupt his national address to show as people were being murdered in the streets while protesting him, well that's just peachy. Hugoon Chavez fucked around with this message at 12:18 on Sep 3, 2015 |
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Sep 3, 2015 12:12
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Perpetual, how do you see Colombia in relation to its inmediate past? as in, has the country in general improved, security and freedom wise? I ask because as a Venezuelan I grew up being told that Colombia was in a worse state than Venezuela. Then things started to decay and nowadays Colombia is considered a pretty decent country to live in by most Venezuelans. I was just wondering if Colombia really has improved, or it's just our own downlfall that makes it seem so.
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Sep 4, 2015 07:53
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That's pretty awesome, good for him. Is the trial going to be televised or something? It's not at all usual but I'd bet they would love to.
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Sep 4, 2015 22:33
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I can say that European media (or at least, Spanish media which is the country with more Venezuelans in Europe for sure) also hardly mentions Venezuelan news.
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Sep 4, 2015 22:50
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punk rebel ecks posted:Question to Venezuelan goons, has the whole situation in Venezuela made you distasteful toward all forms of socialism and left wing politics in general? Or do you view Chavismo as part of a specific left wing umbrella? As for the first: not exactly. As I already mentioned, it has made me a lot more cynical and weary about politics in general, but then again that might be just me growing older. I've lived media manipulation or misinformation first hand in favor of a so called socialist regime so I usually come off as confrontational when speaking about left wing politics, simply because there's a lot of hypocrisy whenever leftists speak about the "right wing media" brain washing people and a lot of other usual arguments. That said, if I were to define myself I would totally fall into the leftist spectrum, but very wary about it. Mostly I'm just in favor of the people's well begin above all, if a right wing government actually takes care of its citizens and people live comfortably and free, I'm all in favor. As for Podemos, the discourse is very similar to Chavez' early talks, and Pablo Iglesias has mentioned the Chavist regime as an example to follow, wore shirts with Chavist motives, etc. He has also said a bunch of things that have set up alarms in my head, such as his stance on the media. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not too involved in Spanish politics, but anyone that uses Chavez as an example is an enemy of mine. I can't but hate what my country has become and anyone siding with the people that made it so won't ever be someone I'd follow. Crowsbeak posted:@ Hugoon Chavez, if you are against Podemos because you see it as being to much like PSUV but do believe that Spain has some structural problems, what do you think the best way to reform Spain is then? Can't really say. I understand the appeal of Podemos: it's the exact same situation as Chavez' in 99. The people are tired of the overtly corrupt bipartidism and the political campaigns here are basically "it's the other party's fault that X!" "You did Y during your last period and that's why it's ALL hosed up!" all year round. Someone coming in and saying "hey, gently caress those dudes, let's do things differently" has a lot of potential. Honestly I'd be all up for Podemos had they not triggered all of those red flags during their discourse. Pablo Iglesias presents itself as another populist leader, wearing chavist shirts and talking about controlling the Media to "avoid right wing bias" and he lost me. Add to that the fact that most of Podemos leaders have been proven to be on Venezuela's payroll for different things in the last few years and, well. Had Podemos been clear about their ideology, been clear of the Chavist movement, and not fall into the typical "point to your opponent's faults and blame them for everything instead of focusing on your own plans" I would've voted for them. Hugoon Chavez fucked around with this message at 09:38 on Sep 9, 2015 |
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Sep 9, 2015 09:19
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I think that, in the long run, the "21st century socialism" campaigned by Chavez will be a giant red mark in history that will haunt left wing politics for years to come. Man, we keep getting lots of those huh.
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Sep 10, 2015 07:00
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Azran posted:It also doesn't help that nowadays the "far left" governments align themselves with some of the most lovely human beings out there: Putin, Al-Asad, Kim Jong Un, al-Gadaffi to name a few. I still remember, uh, either Venezuela or Bolivia (I think it was Bolivia) believed the (fake) rumor of Mandela's death like years before his actual death. Their way to commemorate him? He got put in some kind of "wall of lamentations", up there with such individuals as Castro, al-Gaddafi and Chavez. Yeah, it's incredibly dumb. Venezuela also had nothing but love for Gadaffi. It's like anyone that says "gently caress America" is a hero because that small alignment of interests, and the rest doesn't matter. It's a wonder Maduro hasn't traveled to North Korea yet, and I'm eagerly hoping for him to gift Jong-Un a photoshoped picture of Chavez and Kim Jong-il riding pterodactyles together and getting himself executed.
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Sep 10, 2015 08:44
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punk rebel ecks posted:Sort of like how the far right wing in America throb their hearts toward Putin. It's a very easy and useful tactic. The big bad monster outside our borders is responsible for everything. Boo, big bad monster, boo! Pay no mind to the big bad monster inside our borders, though. It's really easy to create a fictional enemy for the common folk, and the bigger that enemy, the more they eat it up since everyone loves feeling like the underdog in a Disney film. USA is Cobra Kai and Chavez is Mr. Miyagi! Hugoon Chavez fucked around with this message at 12:50 on Sep 10, 2015 |
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Sep 10, 2015 12:46
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Chuck Boone posted:
I think you placed the link around the wrong part, poor guy isn't a guebón just because he died of a heart attack! Or maybe he is, I mean, I wouldn't go to a protest with a weak heart. Chuck Boone posted:
Very well said. I feel sad whenever I hear or read Venezuelans advocating assassinations and civil war in order to get rid of the Chavist Regime. Violence always brings violence and Venezuela is already such a dangerous country that a war would be completely devastating. Not only that but overturning Maduro trough violence only makes all of their crazy conspiracy theories all the more credible. Now, I do think that this will all end up with violence, but I'm hoping it's a final burst of violence, instead of political assassinations and civil war. It's really, really easy to support bloodshed from your soapbox in an internet comedy forum. I wonder if you'd do the same when your mother and friends are living right in the middle of it. PT6A posted:
Yeah, I'm the first to admit there were a bunch of good things in the early years, mostly actual social improvement for the lower class. Of course, behind that was a lot of political propaganda and adults learned to read by repeating things like "Chavez is love" over and over, but hey, they learned how to read! I mean, Chavez was a giant douche and, again, I fantasize of hell being real and my former president getting the deluxe treatment, but as with any successful authoritarian, there were some improvements amongst all the poo poo. Hell the last right wing dictator built half the roads (for his army!) that are used up to this day too. Maduro is just a giant dumbass that's taking as much advantage as he can from what his sugar daddy left for him before he has to bail and live like a king the rest of his years, and leave the country as an empty bag of poo poo. I could understand how people supported Chavez (although I always thought they were morons, I could understand), but supporting Maduro is literally people rabidly sticking to their guns even after benign proved wrong. It's sad that Leopoldo Lopez was convicted, but let's be honest here nobody expected any different. edit: also Chuck Boone posted:Apparently, Lopez told the judge during his closing statements, "If you find me guilty, you will be more afraid to read the sentence than I am to hear it because you know that I am innocent". I have nothing but love for the man if only because it was thans to him being mayor that I could have a "safe zone" during my teenage years in which to party and hang out. While he was Mayor, Chacao (his district) was by far the safest place in Caracas. Hell I took my outside of town current wife to our first date to a tour of Chacao. I don't know how old the other Venegoons are but I remember spending a lot of time in Plaza Altamira and La Castellana. Sure I got robbed a few times there too, but far, far less than anywhere else! Hugoon Chavez fucked around with this message at 07:37 on Sep 11, 2015 |
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Sep 11, 2015 07:29
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punk rebel ecks posted:I thought it was generally accepted that Chavez and his friends were in general a mixed bag, but mostly positive in the beginning, but as time went on they realized they could get away with a lot of poo poo and then pretty much hosed up the entire country. It's impossible to tell, but judging by actions I think that's a possibility. Then again Chavez also tried a military Coup before that and wanted to seize power by force, so my personal views on it is that he was after power and idolization since the beginning.
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Sep 11, 2015 10:54
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Kurtofan posted:I don't think the "tumblr class" has any influence whatsoever on what's going on in Latin America. Maduro is my headmate. edit: godamn that's a terrible first post for a new page.
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Sep 11, 2015 11:52
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Chuck Boone posted:The reason I'd looked up the meaning of the word huevon (or guevon) is because the woman at the end of that La Patilla video I posted called the man recording a huevon. I know that this is a go-to insult, but I realized that I didn't really know what it meant. I was surprised to find that it means "idiot/lazy person". Is that correct? I always thought that it meant something much "worse" than that. Well, yes and no? If I were to translate it it would be like calling someone a Retard rather than an idiot. It's much more insulting (idiot would be "idiota" or "pendejo") and yet still used in "friendly" banter. Then again Venezuelans are incredibly foul mouthed. Seriously, even here in Spain people sometimes tell me I have the dirtiest mouth, and I reign myself in wuite abit due to cultural differences. "Guebón" (huevon is the correct way of spelling it, but "Guebón" is the proper one for emphasys!) is not an uncommon thing to hear at all. "Marico" which is literally "fag" is practically a replacement for "bro" or "dude". Hell one of the hardest things for me when I'm writing in english is to reign said foul mouthedness in. It's odd, and obviously Venezuelans don't notice it until they leave their country and suddenly we're worse than rude drunken sailors.
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Sep 11, 2015 13:30
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zocio posted:I'm a Peruvian national and the funniest thing about talking and reading Venezuelans is the profanity, you guys really take things to a professional level when cursing (when doing something wrong: "que haces mmgv?", me: que significa mmgv?, significa mama guevo! -literally ballsucker, because cocksucker wasn't good enough, you have to be more thorough and say it as casually as someone might say brah). I'm going to nitpick because swearing is a serious matter to me. "Guevo" is penis in Venezuela unlike the rest of the hispanic world where it's indeed balls. So mamaguebo is literally cocksucker, and yeah that's like calling someone "bro", until it's not. We live by context. zocio posted:To actually contribute something useful to the thread, here in Lima, there has been an steady influx of Venezuelans in the last decade that has had interesting results; when you go to smaller stores or markets (that usually sell counterfeit or contraband clothes) you notice that almost overnight all of them started to take credit cards and Venezuelan traveler checks, I later learned that Venezuelans go there " shop" and get cash (either dollars or nuevos soles) minus a commission and their cards get charged in bolivares; another is the proliferation of arepa restaurants, there used to be one or two and now there are dozens (and I love them, drat you for making me an addict). That's called "Raspar cupo" and yeah, it's everywhere. Funny how something illegal is so out in the open. For reference check the differences between the minimum wage in official and black market exchange, it's only natural people are going to take advantage of that. A year or two ago a friend of my wife traveled to dublin for a few months, spending all of her savings. Doing that fraud allowed her to recover what she spend travelling to Dublin, living there for three months, travelling to Spain for two weeks, going back to Dublin, and back to Venezuela and she even had money to spare, meaning the trip actually made her some money. edit: and yes Arepas are the loving best and our contribution to humanity. Way better than the new age socialism.
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Sep 11, 2015 20:27
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Hard to think he's serious, but I've met plenty of people that ARE exactly like that, so I agree that he's doing the thread some kind of service by showing it just hire moronic pro chavist arguments can get. His last post is proof
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Sep 12, 2015 21:01
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Chuck Boone posted:I pride myself in being able to translate videos quickly, but when it comes to Maduro's speeches... First you'd need to translate it to logical Spanish, then English.
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Sep 13, 2015 22:26
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Gozinbulx posted:Those who are help and encourage a bad act (or are complacent) are just as guilty ie this Igelsias publicly condemning the arrest of Lopez but being a friend and supporter (and patron) of the Venezuelan regime does not absolve him of guilt. While I agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment, I think it's very telling that even someone that has based his own political campaign on Chavismo and Chavez as a hero of the people is like "man this is wrong" about Lopez' "trial". BeigeJacket posted:Does anyone ever call Maduro out on his poo poo when he makes these 'the US are planning to invade/my assassination/contaminate our precious bodily fluids' statements, and if not, why not? Well, the thing about those stupid allegations is that they're just another tactic Chavez used that Maduro is completely fumbling. He's been trying to emulate him as much as possible but it's a lot more stupid and a lot less charismatic. Chavez also used the same lines a few times (USA planning to assassinate him, conspiracies from the opposition, etc) but he knew how, when and how often to use them. Maduro is basically a little kid that points and yells everytime someone messes with his toys. And honestly, if you called Maduro on every single stupid thing he says you'd need a dedicated TV channel running you ranting at least 18 hours a day. The guy likes his foot up his mouth so much he shits toes. That said, everything he says is mercilessly mocked and meme'd on social media. It's a thing about us Venezuelans, we can make fun of everything, in any situation. We're basically a country of Goons but with better hygiene.
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Sep 14, 2015 06:53
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AstraSage posted:Well, I unfortunately have a little urge to dispute the having better hygiene part of the analogy with the worsening issues we've been facing around the last four years in most of the nation's Water supplies, Urban maintenance and Medical treatments... True, my friends in Valencia have water around three days each week, and electricty is a random chance. I agree with you on our humor helping keep things peaceful so far, but I can't help but wonder if we take it too far and end up making a joke out of everything without giving it the importance it needs. And the hallacas thing has been a concern for years now. For those who don't know about them, hallacas are the christmas dish for Venezuelans. It's akin to eating turkey on thanksgiving, a powerful tradition that reunites families and friends. Hallacas take days to prepare, and the whole family usually helps out somehow (tasting counts!). Big families churn out hundreds of hallacas and then exchange it with other families for their hallacas, as a sign of friendship. Many traditional families can't conceive christmas without them. I didn't like hallacas until I came to Spain, now I pay 8€ for one come christmas. My mother in law would skin us alive if we don't send a picture of us eating one.
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Sep 14, 2015 12:08
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Labradoodle posted:Update on the judge who sentenced Lopez: in a completely unrelated turn of events that in no way has anything to do with her giving Lopez the maximum sentence for made up crimes, she's being considered for the position of Chilean Consul. Seriously guys, it's just coincidence. Chuck Boone posted:Also, I just found out that this judge, Susana Barreiros, came to her post as the replacement for another judge who had been removed from her seat. That judge was Maria Lourdes Afiuni. For gently caress's sake.
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Sep 14, 2015 18:20
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-Troika- posted:In the unlikely event that it turns into a shooting war between Venezuela and Columbia, how do their respective militaries stack up? Well, Venezuela has been buying a lot of weapons since Chavez took over, but Colombia is a shitload more experienced and organized, plus probably would get most of the international support (and the only one that would matter, US's). It would be very ugly but Colombia would have the upper hand, no doubt. Of course, Venezuela has a lot of connections with Colombian guerrilla, so it could bring the war inside Colombia proper with ease. It's not a laughing matter either way, both countries could do a lot of harm to each other.
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Sep 14, 2015 20:25
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Gozinbulx posted:Colombia and Venezuela are not going to war, relax. It's just a thought exercise, Morrow did a good analysis about why Colombia doesn't want a Conflict, and Chuck Boone is always on point: Venezuela is just baring its fangs trying to look threatening and powerful, but this will pass over as Maduro and his lackeys find another dumb thing to blame their own failures on. And meanwhile, the Venezuelans keep living in encroaching misery.
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Sep 14, 2015 22:42
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Chuck Boone posted:On Colombia-Venezuela relations: Growing up in Venezuela I always learned in school that we were sister countries since we were both liberated by Simon Bolivar and were, in fact, the same country for a while. As some have pointed out in this thread, maybe that relationship has become strained at different times in our histories, but a Colombia-Venezuela really is unthinkable. I always thought that if there was ever a war between Venezuela and Colombia it would be for the right to decidedly claim who invented the arepas. It was us, of course.
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Sep 15, 2015 07:47
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Chuck Boone posted:I think that a gas price increase is long overdue and is probably the most likely site for major policy change. Unfortunately, the last time the government tried to increase gas prices sparked the Caracazo, and Maduro is well aware of that. If Maduro does decide to move on the gas price increase, it wouldn’t be before December. Its worth mentioning that Gas prices are ridiculously low in Venezuela. It's literally cheaper than water. edit: and easier to find too, when I was there I tried to buy bottled water and I had to ask around for almost two hours to find some. Hugoon Chavez fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Sep 16, 2015 |
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Sep 16, 2015 18:16
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Ghost of Mussolini posted:OEA/UNASUR say he has to hold an election. Calling off the elections will not happen unless everything in Venezuela goes to complete and utter poo poo. I want to believe that actual suspension of elections is not a line that we are willing to cross in Latin America after the Juntas, although if you go by the disregard for human rights in the region I wouldn't be exactly shocked, just even more disappointed. Maduro doesn't give a poo poo about OEA, but he won't cancel elections because that would mean he drops al pretense of being an elected leader and clarify to the world that it's a Dictatorship, which is the last thing Chavismo wants.
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Sep 17, 2015 07:42
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Labradoodle posted:I've often thought this in the past when considering whether or not they'd follow up with something and they've constantly surprised me (i.e. Lopez's trial). Well it's "easy" to cloud those kind of things in a way that leaves enough room for doubt, but outright cancelling elections is inexcusable in a democracy, I'd think. I don't disagree with your post at all, maybe now it's a better time to start beating chavismo back, slowly and into presidential elections. If there's to be a peaceful resolution to all of this crisis then a gradual turn around and change in goverment is posibly the best way. Let's hope so, and that it actually happens.
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Sep 17, 2015 13:04
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Chuck Boone posted:If you're looking to fuel your theories that the election will be cancelled or postponed, I think you need look no further than the creeping state of exception and the manufactured crisis with Colombia. It's been about a month since Maduro announced the first states of exception, and now there are at least 14 municipalities across three states affected by the measure. Zulia specially is very much an oposition state, too. Or at least as far as I know.
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Sep 18, 2015 08:21
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I've wondered for a long time if Chavez didn't predict the collapse of his government and nominated Maduro as his successor just to place the blame on him and live on as a great visionary. Why would you nominate Maduro otherwise, dude is a clown.
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Oct 5, 2015 08:41
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Tony_Montana posted:I think Chavez nominated Maduro because he knew that the other strongman, Diosdado Cabellos, is a far darker and more dangerous person. Maduro is probably not as actively evil / corrupt. Maduro was probably more of a psychophant to Chavez as well. Well, you're right on that regard, Cabello would've turned it all in a straight up militar dictatorship.
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Oct 7, 2015 09:15
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I got a few friends there and they're having a rough time. Caraqueños (people from Caracas) are not as used to blackouts and water outages as the rest of the country since they've had far less, but things are pretty bad in Guarenas in the last month. Another city, Valencia, has at least two power outages a week. I got a friend there that's getting buffed as gently caress because he goes to the gym everytime there's an outage. At least he gets something out of it because the poor dude has the worst luck with outages and has had one while getting a tattoo, cooking, bathing and in the hospital with his dad. Keep in mind that, being as insecure as it is, Caracas (Venezuela, really) with the lights off is really loving scary. I've been in a few blackouts there before they were as common and it's frightening if it catches you on the street. People already try to be home before dark, now with sudden blackouts they're twice as scared. Valencia was a ghost town after 7 this February when I went there, and I did eat two power outages in the four days I spend there. By the way, I don't know if my real-life anecdotes are interesting to you guys or proper to the thread. I understand it's a subforum about politics and my stories are a bit off target, but I think reading about how real Venezuelans live and think helps put things in perspective. Also, Chuck Boone, thanks for being so active and on point in the thread. I'm not into politics or mindful of news as much as I could/should be, but I really appreciate you sharing the info, translating and in general helping out a tiny bit to let the true state of my country be known. It's not as bad as the Chavez' days but there are still a lot of people that romanticize Chavism without having a clue of what it has meant for the people under it and I think it's important to get this information out there and shine the llight on what Chavismo really is. Labradoodle, you too. If any of you are ever in Madrid I'll hook you up with an Arepa.
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Oct 9, 2015 07:50
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punk rebel ecks posted:Be honest (current and ex) Venezuelans. How likely do you think that the PSUV will be voted out this December? I'm 100% sure PSUV won't get the majority of votes. Now being voted out, we'll have to see. I don't see them either peacefully giving up their power, or dropping the facade for the TSJ elections and keeping it by force (if anything, this will happen when Maduro is force out. There should be a Referendum in 2016 for this.) It's more likely they'll try to trick their way into holding the seats (as Chuck Boone's latest post hints).
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Oct 10, 2015 20:14
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