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spacemang_spliff posted:loving lol at so-called liberals and leftists defending Iraq war votes. America doesn't have many liberals or leftists. I seriously think the percentage of the population that is black is greater than the percentage that is liberal. And I'm not even using some strawman "purity" definition requiring complete communism tomorrow, either. I mean just basic, humane, rational, run-of-the-mill left-wing thinking. Most of the "liberals" I know are quite happy with America engaging in wars, using drones to execute criminals extrajudicially, spying, and with economic policy that undercuts everybody but the 1%. Even on social issues they're barely left-of-center (where "center" is defined as "don't be a dick to blacks/gays/etc.") and seem to only begrudgingly accept that these folks ought to be treated as equal human beings, and that after a prolonged fight in the public discourse.
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Aug 29, 2015 18:01
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Feather posted:America doesn't have many liberals or leftists. I seriously think the percentage of the population that is black is greater than the percentage that is liberal. And I'm not even using some strawman "purity" definition requiring complete communism tomorrow, either. I mean just basic, humane, rational, run-of-the-mill left-wing thinking. Most of the "liberals" I know are quite happy with America engaging in wars, using drones to execute criminals extrajudicially, spying, and with economic policy that undercuts everybody but the 1%. Even on social issues they're barely left-of-center (where "center" is defined as "don't be a dick to blacks/gays/etc.") and seem to only begrudgingly accept that these folks ought to be treated as equal human beings, and that after a prolonged fight in the public discourse. I live in a rural, conservative area and when I talk about left wing economic policies to people they will almost always end up agreeing with them if you avoid buzzwords. I think a lot of traditional white liberals (urban upper middle class types) are actually more naturally reactionary than some traditional conservatives (blue collar whites and such) when it comes to a lot of issues, but the Liberal vs Conservative label/Republican vs Democrat is more about culture war. I also think being a conservative is strongly attached (at least in conservative areas where I grew up) to masculinity, where if you're a liberal you're a pussy bleeding heart elitest who hasn't worked a day in your life, and much less about policies. The only elements that really draw them to the Republicans is racism, nationalism, and militarism. Which is why Donald Trump is being so successful, because he embodies all of those elements (and masculinity especially) while almost being straight up liberal in other areas that a good chunk of republicans dont care about. A straight up populist party, being strong on anti-immigration, nationalism and the military while being left wing on economic issues would be incredibly successful imo
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Aug 29, 2015 20:50
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Shillery Killbot
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Aug 29, 2015 20:52
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 Same here op.
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Aug 30, 2015 01:33
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:barry soetoro is incorrect because thats not his name. whereas $hillary kkklinton is her name, just look at the birth certificate Agreed Chairman.
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Aug 30, 2015 01:38
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Fish Cant Hold Gun posted:also lol @ people deciding that a yes vote in 2003 on Iraq now qualifies one as a "war criminal". It should.
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Aug 30, 2015 01:38
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Also voting for the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 should make you a pariah. Yes, especially if your name is Clinton or Biden.
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Aug 30, 2015 01:44
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Powercrazy posted:Also voting for the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 should make you a pariah. Biden wrote the dang thing
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Aug 30, 2015 01:45
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Boomstick Quaid posted:Biden wrote the dang thing Yep.
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Aug 30, 2015 01:46
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Pretty sad, because the argument for Bush and Co being war criminals is about specific war crimes, mostly torture, not about the fact that the war itself was rather unnecessary and stupid. Calling someone a war criminal for voting for the war itself, which did not include support for violating the Geneva Convention in the process, neatly papers over the actual war crimes in a haze of self-indulgent ideological purity. Bush and Cheney no doubt love you assholes for whitewashing their legacy for them. Also yeah, the $hillary crap is some freep level stuff.
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Aug 30, 2015 01:48
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Hodgepodge posted:Pretty sad, because the argument for Bush and Co being war criminals is about specific war crimes, mostly torture, not about the fact that the war itself was rather unnecessary and stupid. an aggressive war is, in and of itself, a war crime - whether or not you intended for even worse stuff to happen during the war, which is inevitable and why you dont go to war unless its a real loving excellent reason also she voted for the patriot act lmao
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Aug 30, 2015 01:51
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TEAYCHES posted:an aggressive war is, in and of itself, a war crime - whether or not you intended for even worse stuff to happen during the war, which is inevitable and why you dont go to war unless its a real loving excellent reason Whereas war crimes are things that people have gotten together and decided are a crime even during war. Like torture, rape, etc. Believe it or not, the Bush administration did terrible things that were previously considered unthinkable even during wartime for America. The fact that you can't tell the difference between going to war within the restraints of international law with regards to the treatment of enemy soldiers and civilians and literally stealing lines from the Nazi playbook speaks volumes as to your actual priorities, which have nothing to do with anything but winning a intra-party slapfight in the primaries.
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Aug 30, 2015 02:02
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Hodgepodge posted:Pretty sad, because the argument for Bush and Co being war criminals is about specific war crimes, mostly torture, not about the fact that the war itself was rather unnecessary and stupid. Anyway I'll agree that voting for an unnecessary war under dubious premise, unless your vote can be linked to corruption, isn't in itself a war-crime. But it should disqualify you from political office for the rest of your life. Because you are obviously a reactionary who thinks the main job of congress is to get reelected.
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Aug 30, 2015 02:03
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Hodgepodge posted:Whereas war crimes are things that people have gotten together and decided are a crime even during war. Like torture, rape, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_the_Iraq_War#War_of_aggression dont skirt the issue, a war of aggression is illegal
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Aug 30, 2015 02:04
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Powercrazy posted:Anyway I'll agree that voting for an unnecessary war under dubious premise, unless your vote can be linked to corruption, isn't in itself a war-crime. But it should disqualify you from political office for the rest of your life. Because you are obviously a reactionary who thinks the main job of congress is to get reelected. You can set your own test for who you will and will not support, and she deserves a great deal of poo poo for jumping on the Iraq bandwagon. There is a link between her vote and her relatively lovely foreign policy views, and at the very least she should be pushed to admit that her vote was a mistake and pressured from the left so she doesn't feel free to do her best Neocon impersonation if she is elected.
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Aug 30, 2015 02:06
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like, even if the nazis had conducted themselves with the utmost grace and honor, the original crime was invading poland. sorry about your defense of clinton though also before you cry godwins law the results of the iraq war and the current scale of the refugee crisis in syria is staggering
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Aug 30, 2015 02:07
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Mrit posted:oh. so she isnt a war criminal. got it. if you can't accept htat she's directly a war criminal just know that she supported one by voting the way she did (dick cheney) (iraq) maker has issued a correction as of 02:24 on Aug 30, 2015 |
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Aug 30, 2015 02:21
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Feather posted:America doesn't have many liberals or leftists. I seriously think the percentage of the population that is black is greater than the percentage that is liberal. And I'm not even using some strawman "purity" definition requiring complete communism tomorrow, either. I mean just basic, humane, rational, run-of-the-mill left-wing thinking. Most of the "liberals" I know are quite happy with America engaging in wars, using drones to execute criminals extrajudicially, spying, and with economic policy that undercuts everybody but the 1%. Even on social issues they're barely left-of-center (where "center" is defined as "don't be a dick to blacks/gays/etc.") and seem to only begrudgingly accept that these folks ought to be treated as equal human beings, and that after a prolonged fight in the public discourse. congrats on knowing very few people who happen to all be pretty lovely I guess
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Aug 30, 2015 02:25
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honestly I think very few americans are liberal, much less leftist. For example, the members of my prison gang (the Aryan Brotherhood),
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Aug 30, 2015 02:26
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Emanuel Collective posted:honestly I think very few americans are liberal, much less leftist. For example, the members of my prison gang (the Aryan Brotherhood), i hear theyre generally very in favor of leftist economics
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Aug 30, 2015 02:32
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Does that make me a war criminal because I was in the Navy from 2008-2013
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Aug 30, 2015 02:39
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TEAYCHES posted:like, even if the nazis had conducted themselves with the utmost grace and honor, the original crime was invading poland. sorry about your defense of clinton though I think the saying goes "Assad or we burn the country", and welp
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Aug 30, 2015 02:52
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Hillary can't be a war criminal because that might lead to some unpleasant implications about myself.
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Aug 30, 2015 03:05
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Miltank posted:Hillary can't be a war criminal because that might lead to some unpleasant implications about myself.
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Aug 30, 2015 03:12
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maker posted:if you can't accept htat she's directly a war criminal just know that she supported one by voting the way she did this is basically how I feel. Any democrat who voted for the Iraq war is either an idiot or a coward. Clinton, Biden, Kerry included.
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Aug 30, 2015 03:43
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blue squares posted:Does that make me a war criminal because I was in the Navy from 2008-2013 nah
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Aug 30, 2015 05:17
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blue squares posted:Does that make me a war criminal because I was in the Navy from 2008-2013 No, because you are asking about it in front of us and it is slightly awkward to call someone a war criminal(under flimsy justifications) to their figurative face. But $hillary! Totes a war criminal. Because reasons.
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Aug 30, 2015 08:43
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Mrit posted:No, because you are asking about it in front of us and it is slightly awkward to call someone a war criminal(under flimsy justifications) to their figurative face. actually weve given plenty of reasons why a sitting united states senator who supports an aggressive invasion of a sovereign nation could be considered a war criminal but you really really dont like that we live in a nation where its not polite to bring that up
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Aug 30, 2015 09:48
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Miltank posted:Hillary can't be a war criminal because that might lead to some unpleasant implications about myself. America is 70% Good 30% Bad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgO1LUijb0k
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Aug 30, 2015 16:24
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Mrit posted:No, because you are asking about it in front of us and it is slightly awkward to call someone a war criminal(under flimsy justifications) to their figurative face. just being in the military doesn't make a person a war criminal you idiot being a person in power and supporting a war that wasn't justifiable in any sense does
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Aug 30, 2015 16:56
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do people not realize she not only voted for it but worked to convince other spineless idiot democrats to vote for it too?
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Aug 30, 2015 17:14
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I write it as $hillary because i find it funny like doing $treet $marts, get yours Micro$oft is also cool too it is just funny and amusing and there is nothing wrong with that there u go like Ubi$oft all kinds of crazy applications, go wild
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Aug 30, 2015 17:34
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If you want a picture of the future, imagine a Democrat shooting his own foot — forever.
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Aug 30, 2015 17:39
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Jewel Repetition posted:If you want a picture of the future, imagine a Democrat shooting his own foot — forever. heh, "future"
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Aug 30, 2015 18:54
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maker posted:just being in the military doesn't make a person a war criminal you idiot I don't think anyone in this thread(Hillary included) is a war criminal, I'm just(poorly) mocking those who do.
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Aug 30, 2015 19:49
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I believe Hillary is innocent of war crimes until proven guilt. But there's certainly enough evidence for a trial.
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Aug 30, 2015 19:54
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spacemang_spliff posted:do people not realize she not only voted for it but worked to convince other spineless idiot democrats to vote for it too? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkS9y5t0tR0
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Aug 30, 2015 21:19
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lol she was even working on building the Iraq - OBL link
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Aug 30, 2015 21:36
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I enlisted as a dumb teenage conservative, and though I only worked in a support maintenance role, I feel a deep sense of guilt over supporting an organization that killed many innocent people. This probably sounds silly, but I feel that thus far I have had a net negative impact on the world as a whole.
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Aug 30, 2015 22:06
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thank you for your service
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Aug 30, 2015 22:40
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