|
  St. Angela
|
#
¿
Sep 4, 2015 20:19
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 16, 2024 23:31 |
|
|
icantfindaname posted:It's pretty surreal as an American to see educated, nominally liberal first worlders basically argue for white supremacist immigration policy Actually some of the politicians in Europe aren't even nominally liberal. Orban for instance openly said that he wants Hungary to be an "illiberal state based on national foundations" as he thinks liberalism has failed.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 4, 2015 23:32
|
|
|
Leading business representatives in Germany have urged the Government to take in refugees and make it as easy as possible for them to get jobs and education. The boss of Daimler even announced his company is going to actively recruit employees from refugee centers, as they are "young, well educated and highly motivated. We are looking for exactly these people." Also they called for protection from deportation for people that are in school. Let's hope this attitude stays. http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/unternehmen/daimler-chef-will-in-fluechtlingszentren-neue-arbeitskraefte-finden-a-1051654.html
|
|
#
¿
Sep 6, 2015 16:05
|
|
|
SaltyJesus posted:Were they planning to swim across the sea to Sweden? Surely they have to identify themselves somewhere to get on a boat? I'm sure they weren't planning it that thoroughly, but there is a bridge between Sweden and Denmark.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 8, 2015 11:04
|
|
|
 (percentages of total refugee influx, proposal on the left, actual numbers on the right) EU proposal would heavily disburden Germany, Sweden and Austria and the border states Hungary, Italy and Greece (who would be exempt from the quota, along with the UK, Denmark and Ireland) while demanding a lot more from most other countries.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 8, 2015 11:21
|
|
|
kikkelivelho posted:Even without the flaws this proposal seems like a too little too late kinda deal. Shuffling a few migrants around probably won't help when thousands more enter Europe every week. The quota isn't meant for ending the refugee crisis but for alleviating the immediate strains a few countries experience currently while the rest of Europe isn't bothered by it that much.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 8, 2015 12:34
|
|
|
Klaus88 posted:The average poster in the Germany thread seems fairly pro-refugee but I'm not sure how representative that is of the average German's views or how Germany is gonna lean in the future. 59% of Germans are okay with the current number of refugees or even want to take more in and 33% want to take less. Also, 59% say they're not afraid of the refugee influx, 38% are afraid of problems coming with it (more are afraid in East Germany, less in the West). 81% are for giving more money to refugee projects in and outside the country, 70% for creating more legal ways of migration into the EU. Approval ratings for Angela Merkel stay around 65-70%.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 9, 2015 16:26
|
|
|
Jack B Nimble posted:Is there going to be, like, a summit on this at some point? There is a meeting of the EU foreign ministers scheduled for the second half of October but some are saying this is too late. The UK however wouldn't be influenced by this as they don't participate in the common EU refugee politics.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 9, 2015 18:39
|
|
|
Woah poo poo's getting real in the EU now. The Austrian chancellor just compared Hungary forcing refugees in trains back to the Serbian border to the Nazis forcing Jews in trains to Auschwitz.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 12, 2015 13:23
|
|
|
TomViolence posted:So, um, has anybody been kicking around the idea that with a looming demographic crisis in europe's near future as declining birth rates in the latter half of the twentieth century shrink the workforce, bringing in lots of new, young folk might be exactly what's needed to revitalise the economy? I'm a simple gently caress myself, so I don't really know where to start with it, but if anybody's been advancing this hypothesis or something similar I'd love to hear about it. No of course that's true. Germany needs a bit more than 500,000 immigrants per year to keep their population levelled. Right wing answers I've heard to that are for instance: - Population decline isn't a bad thing - Let's make our women have more children - Let's take in more EU foreigners but no swarthy refugees
|
|
#
¿
Sep 13, 2015 12:47
|
|
|
TomViolence posted:I don't have a problem with this bit, though the other two are clearly repugnant. I mean, the demographic crisis is surely only a temporary anomaly after which things will hopefully level off and normalise as the last of the large-familied child farming generations that preceded us eventually die out. The trend toward smaller families is probably a good thing in the long term, it just means there's a hump we have to get over in terms of caring for a large proportion of elderly people. Unless there's a catch I'm not seeing. There would be no hump. A fertility rate below 2.1 + rising life expectancy means the percentage of old people in the population will permanently grow if there is no sufficient immigration.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 13, 2015 13:40
|
|
|
Germany just reintroduced border controls in order to limit the refugee influx after 63000 refugees have arrived in Munich alone in the last two weeks, which is more than in entire 2014. Trains between Austria and Germany have been stopped temporarily. At a pinboard in Vienna West station.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 13, 2015 17:06
|
|
|
attackmole posted:Shoutout to my Hungarian relatives constantly posting xenophobic trash on Facebook. I love that country, but eeeeeeeeee. It's got this crazy nationalism that is fuelled by an inferiority complex developed through a few centuries of being the oddball of central Europe. It's been developing for a long time, the migrant influx is just making it hit a boiling point. Hungary is by far the most right-wing nation in Europe.  While Fidesz is already really nationalist and reactionary, Jobbik are outright Neonazis. And one in five Hungarians voted for them. 
|
|
#
¿
Sep 13, 2015 19:36
|
|
|
tsa posted:From a climate change perspective declining populations in the countries that consume mass amounts of resources should be a good thing, no? After all if the entire world consumed like the US / EU did the world would be doomed. From the perspective of a German child that wants to have social security when she or he is older, a declining and aging population is a really bad prospect, though.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 13, 2015 19:45
|
|
|
TomViolence posted:Is this hypothesis based on the idea that birth rates will continue to decline or that they will trend downward to some sort of stable level, perhaps sustained by an influx of population from immigration? Because I'm still all for smaller families and I'd like to see a sustainable society down the line. The fertility rate in countries like Germany or Italy has been about 1.4 children per woman since the eighties. Assuming that this stays the same for a few generations, the percentage of old people would at some point become stable, while the overall population size would continue to shrink. However, life expectancy is still rising constantly which makes the share of old people larger again because newer generations will live longer. The average family in these countries is already really small and immigration is strongly needed to equalise this.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 13, 2015 20:05
|
|
|
Expected refugee numbers for Germany have been adjusted to 1,000,000 in 2015.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 13, 2015 20:13
|
|
|
Baudolino posted:It`s a sacrifice worth making. I guess you have to support the far-right people in Germany who don't want to take any refugees, then. Even the center-right CDU is overwhelmingly pro-immigration.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 13, 2015 20:31
|
|
|
attackmole posted:I know that, I'm just saying Hungary's got even more extreme than the rest of Europe from a history of being poo poo on and having no similar neighbouring cultures. And now it's turned into a reactionary shitlord movement. I stopped debating Hungarian politics with Hungarians long ago. You will either get someone who downplays the extent of far-right extremism in the country or someone who outright supports it. When I touched the topic of Jobbik using symbols of the fascist Arrow Cross Party you mostly heard something like "It's an old Hungarian tradition and it's good there are people who uphold it". When I said Jobbik and Fidesz politicians were openly talking about "the world's jewry destroying the integrity of our state" I heard "Well, there is some truth to that statement".
|
|
#
¿
Sep 13, 2015 21:02
|
|
|
Aspergeoisie posted:Probably asked and answered but what's stopping countries from denying asylum applications and deporting these people if they don't want them there? Like the EU can't actually force anyone into taking them, right? Penalties. The Austrian chancellor proposed that the countries in favour of the quota system could pass it unilaterally (they would be enough to form a qualified majority) and cut EU spendings for those countries who won't participate. Since most of these countries are net recipients of EU money this would actually hurt them.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 14, 2015 11:10
|
|
|
Tesseraction posted:I know a Hungarian actually who has national pride but says he's despairing for Hungary because of its fascistic nationalism. He is proud of his country's cultural heritage and laments the diaspora of the annexation of Hungary by the surrounding countries, but he doesn't believe they should try and take back those areas and he hates Jobbik and the current government. He absolutely does not play down the far-right extremism. Yeah I suppose there must be at least some people in Hungary opposed to their general madness. I only know a handful of them but my experiences were quite bad, unfortunately. Well, actually I know another Hungarian who is a cool lad opposed to the political sentiments, but he's virtually a Jew that won't return into his native country because he fears persecution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andr%C3%A1s_Schiff
|
|
#
¿
Sep 14, 2015 11:21
|
|
|
Austria just introduced border controls, too.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 14, 2015 11:51
|
|
|
German CDU starting talks with coalition partners about an "immigration law" that could open up legal ways of getting to Europe as a refugee without using smugglers.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 14, 2015 13:10
|
|
|
Yadoppsi posted:Does anyone care to comment on this article? Is this why Germany did its about face with its borders yesterday? Yeah seems about correct. De Maiziére personally said he wanted the measure "to be a statement", one could assume that means a statement towards other EU countries.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 14, 2015 13:32
|
|
|
chessmaster13 posted:Finally somebody doing something about this. There is only so much strain that a social system can handle. That's not what the article says. Money is no problem - the government just recently allocated an additional six billion Euros for refugee welfare in 2015. The problem is that in the last two weeks the influx was way too fast to deal with it in any orderly way. Also Merkel seemingly really wants the other EU countries to help.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 14, 2015 13:50
|
|
|
Plus Germany is insanely rich. Maybe it's not the worst idea to tax the people who have a lot of money a bit more.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 14, 2015 14:47
|
|
|
Torrannor posted:That's true for Europe as a whole. But I can actually believe Greek politicians that they cannot afford to properly care for all the refugees that cross from Turkey into their country, especially if the other EU countries keep refusing to help. The situation on Lesbos was much better in the last days than two weeks ago, though. Although the refugee stream even grew a little bit bigger, but the Greek intermediate government was actually able to organise a functioning aid team. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/09/germany-stretched-capacity-refugee-surge-150913110111973.html (In the video they talk about Greece)
|
|
#
¿
Sep 14, 2015 18:35
|
|
|
A 2009 statistical survey in Germany found out that refugee housing has virtually no effect on the crime rate in the area. Although there has been a continuous rise in the migrant population for decades now, crime rates have been shrinking steadily since 2004.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 15, 2015 12:31
|
|
|
Bavarian police saying they're not able refuse anyone who's coming, as the controls happen a few hundred meters away from the borders. "Basically nothing changed. The border is as open as it was before and if we really closed it we would immediately have a situation like in Hungary." Furthermore they said that literally everyone is claiming to be Syrian even if they're obviously from Sub-Saharan Africa.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 15, 2015 16:05
|
|
|
Just recently a court even ruled that German authorities are not allowed to send refugees to Hungary because of the miserable humanitarian conditions there. The situation is really bad in Hungary.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 16, 2015 14:56
|
|
|
Woozey posted:In an interesting twist, it seems Germany is planning huge cuts to its asylum seeker benefits system. Source? In 2012 the Federal Constitutional Court ruled that asylum seeker benefits cannot be lower than "existence minimum", which is 206€ + individual bonuses (usually 130€) per month.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 17, 2015 18:21
|
|
|
Woozey posted:http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/fluechtlingskrise/gesetzentwurf-de-maiziere-will-leistungen-fuer-fluechtlinge-stark-kuerzen-13808455.html Yeah just found them, too. The proposal is to cut the benefits for refugees Germany is taking in although they already have been registered in another EU country. It's anyway questionable if this proposal is feasible because of the forementioned supreme court ruling.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 17, 2015 19:12
|
|
|
Woozey posted:Which strikes me as quite powerful, given the difficulty of entering Germany without passing through another EU member. Many refugees aren't registered until they arrive in Germany.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 17, 2015 20:29
|
|
|
hackbunny posted:Isn't that pretty much a synonym for poverty, crime, hopelessness? It works pretty great if the government is actually committed to it, look at the Vienna social housing system.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 18, 2015 21:23
|
|
|
Distribution of 120,000 refugees across EU has finally been decided, even if against the resistance of the Eastern European countries.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 22, 2015 21:51
|
|
|
Ligur posted:Yeah wow. That helps when 600k+ are coming. It's a start and proof that this type of decision can be made without the approval of every member state.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 22, 2015 22:00
|
|
|
The_Franz posted:Do any news sources have the per-country distribution numbers? From LemonDrizzle in the Europol-Thread  
|
|
#
¿
Sep 22, 2015 22:23
|
|
|
kikkelivelho posted:I assume the "no" countries will not be participating? Afaik Slovakia and the Czech Republic won't be partaking, but I think Orban already said he would give in.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 22, 2015 22:33
|
|
|
The destruction of European culture (whatever that means) would be a bad thing, yes. But even if we took in 20 or 30 million refugees in a few years Europe would still be basically the same. The fears of islamisation are ridiculously exaggerated and funnily enough sometimes not even debated anymore even by leftists.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 23, 2015 12:36
|
|
|
Griffen posted:(because if spending millions training unemployed workers was a net boon to the economy, nations would have done it to their own unemployed without the need for language lessons) Imo that's not really an argument, because there are uncountable instances of governments ignoring long-term advantages because of short-term disadvantages. It's no secret that improving the education will almost always lead to an improvement of the economic situation of a person. Nevertheless public funding for education gets cut almost everywhere. Also we already know that Utah will be the next Middle East, they even have a river Jordan and Jerusalem.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 25, 2015 16:01
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 16, 2024 23:31 |
|
|
Ligur posted:Agreed that is probably something which a powerhouse like Germany can handle. Finland has a higher GDP per capita than Germany. You are very well able to shoulder a fair percentage of the influx. However tbf, if the average Finn is anything like you (which is not my experience) I wouldn't recommend a refugee to go there.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 29, 2015 14:28
|
|