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So yeah, great-grandparents willed me 50% of their estate, which comes out to a bit north of $850,000. It's being held in a trust until I turn 25, which is this February. I'm looking for some advice on what I should do with it, generally speaking. Most of it's getting invested in some form or another, it's just specific ideas I'm soliciting. My situation: in college, no debt (I got a disbursement for school), single, no kids or other major bills. I've had suggestions from friends and family, from "Stock market" to "No not the stock market Obummer's gonna steal all your money, buy into a franchise," but none of them have much in the way of experience with investing large amounts of money. The franchise option sounds vaguely interesting, but it seems like it's a lot of work, and would also tie me down in one area for 10 years, which I'm not terribly keen on. I'm definitely going to be buying professional help once February comes around, this is just soliciting suggestions, basically.
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Sep 5, 2015 01:07
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Read The Four Pillars of Investing by William Bernstein. That should give you a good idea about how to invest in the stock market.
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Sep 5, 2015 01:12
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Congrats on being set for life @ 25. Invest it. With that amount of cash a food financial advisor can be well worth the money. Whats your major in school?
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Sep 5, 2015 01:29
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If you don't need the money anytime soon, just dump it into index funds; unlike a franchise or real estate, index funds are still relatively liquid, so you can always pull the money out and doing something else with it if/when you change your mind. If you're paranoid about an impending crash you can invest it gradually. Sounds like you're American, so you can use VTSAX (Vanguard Total Stock Market), VTIAX (Vanguard International Stock Market), and VBTLX (Vanguard Total Bond Market). What % in bonds depends on your risk profile, so think about how long it'll be before you need this money and how you would react to $200,000 being wiped out one year in a recession. And yeah, read a lot: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Bogleheads%C2%AE_investing_start-up_kit, http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2892928, http://jlcollinsnh.com/stock-series/ edit: and be very careful about 'professional help'. The finance industry is full of charismatic and seemingly-knowledgeable dudes who will sound reassuring and make investing sound very complicated so they can get you into loaded, high expense ratio funds that give them a big bonus. Cicero fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Sep 5, 2015 |
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Sep 5, 2015 01:29
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Read what I am about to type, very carefully. This amount of money can change your life, forever...IF you invest it wisely. Think very, very carefully before you do *anything*. I know you know this already, but it never hurts to read it again.
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Sep 5, 2015 01:32
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oxsnard posted:Whats your major in school? Electrical Engineering Tech Cicero posted:edit: and be very careful about 'professional help'. The finance industry is full of charismatic and seemingly-knowledgeable dudes who will sound reassuring and make investing sound very complicated so they can get you into loaded, high expense ratio funds that give them a big bonus. Yeah, I'm aware. I'll probably be looking for recommendations here for that as well, along with my own research. CelestialScribe posted:Read what I am about to type, very carefully. Trust me, I'm going to be sticking a similar sentiment somewhere where I see it all the time. E: Also, what's the deal with the Vanguard links? I've never payed much attention to the stock market before now. Lprsti99 fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Sep 5, 2015 |
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Sep 5, 2015 01:38
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Lprsti99 posted:E: Also, what's the deal with the Vanguard links? I've never payed much attention to the stock market before now. The first index fund I link tracks pretty much the entire US stock market. The second one tracks stock markets outside the US. The third one tracks a huge number of bonds in the US (which are basically loans to governments/corporations). By buying shares of an index fund, you're buying a tiny little slice of a ton of companies or bonds, which means you're highly diversified: you go up and down with the whole market, rather than being subject to the successes and failures of any one company. This is both easier and less risky than trying to beat the market (and studies also show that it performs better on average). Cicero fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Sep 5, 2015 |
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Sep 5, 2015 01:47
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Vaminn posted:Read The Four Pillars of Investing by William Bernstein. That should give you a good idea about how to invest in the stock market. You'll be able to read this book prior to the money becoming available to you. Pick up a 1% savings account to put the money in. The long term ideal is put it all the ETF/index fund and bonds which is great if you're working and don't live off the revenue from the estate. Whatever you invest in you might want to roll it in over time to make sure you are comfortiable with what you are doing. Going from no investments to a large investment is a big step. If you plan on just living off the money you need to set up about 40-50% as income generating investments and the remainder in bonds and stock market. That won't have the best long term benefit though. Look at the posts above for details.
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Sep 5, 2015 01:55
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Lprsti99 posted:Electrical Engineering Tech Vanguard is the preferred brokerage pick since they offer quality low yearly cost investments.
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Sep 5, 2015 02:57
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All good advice in this thread, listen to these guys and educate yourself first. Don't trust anyone, not even your family with your money. A fee only financial advisor may be helpful but not entirely necessary, and for God's sake don't pay a % commission or buy into their loaded proprietary funds, Vanguard funds are all you need. Vanguard funds have the lowest management fees in the industry, and they are actually a good, non-scammy company. Do not loan friends or family money because you will never see it agian. Do not invest in any "business opportunities" that will inevitably be pitched to you by friends, family, acquaintances, or strangers. There is a hard truth that must be learned in this world and it is this: no one is going to do the hard work for you. Listen to me, you have a life changing amount of money at your age. If you aren't careful and you gently caress it up, you'll be suicidal and never forgive yourself. Do not get into drugs, whores, or gambling, and for Christ's sake do not buy a house just because you can. I made a lot of money in my early twenties, and I made a lot of mistakes, like any young person would who suddenly comes into wealth. But I learned from the mistakes quickly and managed my risk, and you will need to learn how to do this. You got a golden ticket Charlie, now educate yourself and don't gently caress it up. fruition fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Sep 5, 2015 |
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Sep 5, 2015 03:15
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fruition posted:Don't not loan friends or family money because you will never see it agian. One specific piece of advice about this. Don't tell anyone about it. It just makes you a target for scams. Difficult for family not to know but see the quoted advice.
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Sep 5, 2015 04:05
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fruition posted:
Naw, investing in the candy industry is a sure-fire bet, see? Seriously 'tho. Dont overpay on fees and if you take one thing to heart let it be this: Never let your money be a source of self worth. If you can manage this then you wont brag about it to your friends, you wont start gambling, you wont buy a bunch of poo poo you dont want or need, you wont start daytrading, you wont be tempted to live a baller lifestlye, and all those other vices that can make 800k dissappear in a hurry.
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Sep 5, 2015 05:03
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Leroy Diplowski posted:Naw, investing in the candy industry is a sure-fire bet, see? This is a great piece of advice. Also, I agree that starting a business can be a fabulous way to grow your wealth, if you can maintain some control over the risks involved. Blindly giving money to a buddy's starup and developing your own business plan and solving a problem you're passionate about are two very different things. Congrats on your success with the candy business 
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Sep 5, 2015 06:24
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All really good advice, thanks folks I'm definitely not going to jump straight into anything, and I know better than to invest in family/friends' "great ideas." The vanguard indices look great, will study up on them, and snag a copy of Four Pillars. I'm not totally against trying a startup business, it's just a case of recognizing how much work they can take, and recognizing that I don't really have the right personality for running a business. That might change in the future, though, so it'll remain an option.
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Sep 5, 2015 06:47
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If you were a little bit older (say 30+), and in an established career I would say to buy a house and put the rest in an index fund. Seriously consider putting it into an index fund and just ignoring it for 25 years. Go and live your life, build a career, fall in love etc and feel comfortable that if you ever end up somewhere you really don't want to be you can chuck it all in and start over. You may want allow yourself $50k or something to go on an epic trip once you finish studying. Take a year off and go backpacking around the world if you haven't already and that appeals to you. Buying a house is in general a good idea, but as you are still studying you might end up moving somewhere else for work or for other reasons. On the flipside maybe you have strong family ties to the region/city you are in and know you are happy there and never want to leave. Buying a house is good because everyone needs somewhere to live, and historically land has been a good investment and at the very least a good hedge against inflation. The problem is it is quite expensive to buy/sell (agent fees, taxes etc) and takes a relatively long time so its better if your are comfortable holding 10+ years. You don't want to be buying/selling every 3 years. You also can't really sell off a portion if you want some cash. If you do buying a place to live at this stage I'd suggest getting somewhere smaller (like a nice 1-2 bedrooms apartment) vs a 5 bdr mansion, you just don't need that much space and day to day upkeep is a pain. Save it for when you really need all the space. Lets say you put 800k in an index fund, and 10 years later its worth 1.6m (compounded 7% growth pa). You now have a long term partner and a stable job you enjoy so you can take out 500k as a deposit for a house and mortgage the rest. Live and work another 15 years, paid off your house and have a very nice nest egg and you're in an very enviable position. It's a lot of money but probably not enough such that you never have to work again. The other advice here is all good and I'd just say be aware that you are still basically pretty young and the things that are important to you now will be different from the things that are important to you 5-10yrs down the line. Don't over commit to anything like big investments that lock up all your money and are hard to get out of, and don't let the money get in the way of living a full life.
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Sep 5, 2015 06:48
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unixbeard posted:On the flipside maybe you have strong family ties to the region/city you are in and know you are happy there and never want to leave. Hahahahahahaha, I am getting the gently caress out of Virginia as soon as I possibly can. I need to move somewhere where it's cold as a general rule. Good info though, thanks. And yeah, no idea what I'm planning for a home, but I would prefer something small at the moment anyway. A big house just means more air to climate-control and more space to clean.
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Sep 5, 2015 06:55
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There's a lot of good advice in this thread, but it depends heavily on your discipline and willpower. There's no point enacting a plan that you aren't able to follow. The idea that you should put the money into an index fund and ignore it for 25 years is great in concept, but I have a hard time believing anyone is capable of ignoring nearly a million dollars in their bank account when they are a 25 year old student, or a twenty-something professional for the years thereafter. It might be feasible while you're in school and focusing on the things that already matter to you, but once you're in the working world (especially in engineering), it's only going to take a couple of twenty-hour workdays and encounters with bullshit office politics before you approach a mental block of "This is stupid, and I don't have to loving deal with it, so why am I?" Obviously, that's dependent on the company, and maybe you'll have a great work experience building a career with peers you respect. Even at great companies or firms, most people have a lovely time of it once in a while, though, and the difference is they suffer through because they don't have any choice. If I had to give one piece of advice, it's this: don't buy yourself a job. Advice that comes in the form of buying a franchise, starting a business, or anything that requires your time to earn a return isn't good advice (unless you are passionate about the project, and would legitimately enjoy doing it). These are one-way streets in a lot of ways, because selling a franchise or a business isn't a quick process, and if you decide you don't like it you're probably going to do so at a loss in order to get out. Here's the thing: at age 25, $850,000 isn't enough to live off for the rest of your life. It doesn't seem like it, but if you're harboring any idea that you can coast with it, you're wrong. There's obviously a thousand paths to take, but for what it's worth, here's what I would do if I were in your position: > Step 1 - Invest the money in one of the Vanguard index funds (or any exchange traded fund equivalent) that has a good mix of dividend income for your current benefit and equity growth for your long-term benefit. The Dividend Growth Fund (2.09%), , Dividend Appreciation Fund (2.24%), and High Dividend Yield (3.36%) are good starting points for consideration. I'm sure the other people in this thread and sub-forum in general can provide other options, but the idea isn't complicated: spending all the money today isn't a correct choice, and saving it all for use 25 years from now isn't an appealing choice, so an investment mix that provides annual income for spending and long-term equity growth for savings and retirement is a reasonable and achievable path. If you go that route, you're looking at somewhere between $17,000 and $29,000 annually in dividend income, plus or minus whatever happens to the stock market in the intervening years. As a student, you can probably live off that. If not, you can at least enjoy a significant boost to your quality of life while keeping static any existing employment you've had to implement while finishing school. The magic comes later. > Step 2 - Finish school and get a job as if you were a normal person. Here's where things get interesting. Most people in their mid-twenties, after finishing school, have to loving kill themselves to succeed in the workplace. You've got options, and they're pretty good. $20K or $30K annually in dividend income isn't enough to not have to work, but it is enough to not have to work all year. When you're assessing your employment options and job offers, consider finding a firm that is explicitly okay with you taking unpaid leave, and then take advantage of it as you deem necessary. How that works is up to you. Maybe you work an 80% work week, and get Friday off every week. Maybe you work a 100% work week, but take two months off every year (one month vacation, one month unpaid leave). Or three months off every year. You can be a rock-star professional in your company by giving it your all when you're working, and achieve something resembling 'work-life balance' that other people only dream about (because it's largely a myth unless you're already wealthy). According to Google, the average entry-level salary of a Bachelor of Electrical Engineering is somewhere between $50,000 and $85,000, obviously dependent upon geographical location across North America. If you can manage to have a rewarding career nine months of the year, and use your dividend income to help you recharge for that remaining three months, you're going to end up a lot healthier and happier than your peers ten years down the road. Meanwhile, the non-dividend-income component of your investments is slowly accruing in your portfolio, and ten or twenty years down the line it's a reasonable nest egg to add on top of the savings you generate in your career. Now, that said, maybe it isn't in your best interests to start your career with three months of vacation and unpaid leave annually. Learning how the workplace actually, you know, works is something that might take your full attention for the first year or three. Or maybe you'd just want to make a good impression. However, there are few things more rewarding than completing a major project that involves all the office bullshit of long hours, stressful days, and appropriate bonuses, and then treating yourself to a month off to recharge. In the short-term it might put you behind your peers in terms of pure months of work experience, but in the long run the guy who can maintain his composure, is always charged and ready to do his best at the job, and who approaches his work professionally and methodically is going to be more successful. The potential compensation of a successful career in engineering is significant, and there's a strong argument to apply your inheritance in a manner that lets you approach your job to the best of your ability for the rest of your life, because if you do that inheritance is going to be a small component of your overall savings twenty years from now. Alternatively, you could buy a different hooker every night for the next five years.
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Sep 5, 2015 14:56
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Waador posted:There's a lot of good advice in this thread, but it depends heavily on your discipline and willpower. There's no point enacting a plan that you aren't able to follow. I personally like the idea of investing the money in an Index fund, and ignoring it entirely or using it for a reasonable purchase, such as a house. If the $850k averages a 10% return per year (which is a typical expected return), in 20 years you will have ~5.7 million dollars. This allows you to live off of your income, buy a few reasonable things earlier than usual, such as a decent (read: not extravagant) house/condo. If you have the discipline to spend it wisely, that is. Keep some of the money liquid now, for emergencies or foreseen expenses, such as tuition if you need it, transportation like upgrading to a reasonable car, etc. Then, you can ignore all retirement savings if you desire and just cash flow whatever you would like to do from your day job. You would be amazed how much you can do on $50k/year when you have zero payments and you don't have to save for retirement. As an engineer, you can expect to be making 6 figures in a few years as well, at which points you will have absolutely bonkers amount of money to do basically whatever you want, simply because you do not have to worry about saving for retirement, saving for a house or making house payments, etc. The key is to not be tempted in to doing silly things like "loaning" money to family or friends, or buying luxuries left and right. I would advise not helping friends start businesses, because the stress involved can, and usually does, result in a destroyed friendship.
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Sep 5, 2015 15:31
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I'm inheriting a substantial amount as well so I've thought about this quite a bit. Invest in an index fund, expect less than 8% annual return. Ideally you want to use this money to max contribute to tax advantaged accounts like the 401k / Roth IRA every year whenever possible and invest most of the rest in tax friendly index funds. The advantages of having this money are that you no longer have to fret about retirement, but you still have to work. You also have plenty for unforeseen things that may pop up, like medical costs or unexpected job loss. It's an immense amount of worry that you'll never have to deal with. It's going to be tempting to buy something, like a house or an apartment, that you otherwise wouldn't be able to afford. Please be very diligent, this money gives you more options but it can also screw you if you go hog wild. Once you have this money get a will done with a lawyer. It may feel a bit morbid to be thinking about your own possible death at 25 but believe me fights over money destroys families/friendships, have it set in stone who gets what. Also, if you drive you're going to want to update your liability to cover the amount of your estate. And finally as it can't be repeated enough, tell nobody. onemillionzombies fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Sep 5, 2015 |
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Sep 5, 2015 16:07
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Poster above me has good points, I would add this info: * Less than 8% return is definitely the ballpark of where your expectations. $850k is a lot of money, but in reality it is only enough to spit off an inflation-adjusted $2100 - $2800 per month depending on your portfolio and withdrawal rate (3-4% per year). So that's pretty nice, but considering the average family's medical expenses alone tend to be around $10000 per year, the money isn't as much as it seems like. * You should consider a more balanced portfolio than just a 100% stock index. If I were you I would be thinking somewhere around a 20%-30% bond allocation. That is relatively high for your age, but probably low if you compare yourself to the ages of other people that have 10x their (projected) salary invested. I don't think age alone is the best way to pick a portfolio risk allocation. * The liability insurance is a good idea. This is accomplished typically by increasing your auto and home insurance liability coverage to 500k, and then buying an additional umbrella liability policy that will cover the 500k - 1500k range in the event of a lawsuit. It's not really that expensive, and worth it if you have assets (because if you have assets, someone may decide it's worth the effort to sue you because they could actually collect money). * The idea of siphoning it into retirement accounts is good too. When you start working, you should maximize your 401k (18k) and IRA (5500) each year. If you don't have enough salary left over to live off of, take some money out of the 850k to make up for it. * Making a will is also a good idea. A lawyer will probably not charge too much to do it and will serve as the witness for the signing, but you could also make one yourself using Quicken Willmaker or something. * Lots of people like to buy real estate to rent out. If I were you, I absolutely wouldn't let myself do that until I was at least 30 years old, as a way to make sure you are happy and established in the area before you consider dealing with that. If you still think it's a good idea once you have an established job and you are happy in the area, then by all means look into it to see if it's something you want to do and a viable investment (I personally don't want the hassle, but to each their own). * I absolutely would not buy a franchise. "Buying a job" is definitely what you are doing there.
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Sep 5, 2015 16:46
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Pretty much 1. Invest a majority in the stock market ideally in low cost index funds, I like Vanguards all in one Lifestrategy funds 2. When you get that much money it does make sense to get umbrella insurance, umbrella insurance is pretty cheap and a good way to protect your nest egg from bad surprises. 3. Get estate planning out of the way with a good lawyer, in your case it would makes sense to go with a revocable living trust and pour over will 4. Retirement savings still make sense given how things like a 401k can help reduce your yearly tax bill. 5. Avoid esoteric investments like great business plans from family or friends 6. If you are new to investing it makes sense to have a financial advisor, Vanguard does offer a network of advisors and other perks as you invest more money.
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Sep 5, 2015 16:49
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The main thing you have now is security. Do what everybody is saying with the index funds, but you're young and might want to consider a gap year. 20 grand would be way more than enough for a year of backpacking and you're sure as gently caress not going to do it when you're older.
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Sep 5, 2015 18:21
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You're 25. Put the money somewhere that it will take care of itself (cash/index fund portfolio determined based on what people are recommending), and pretend it doesn't exist for at least the next 10 years. It's not actually that much in the long term, and you will be well advised to find your own way for now rather than leaning on it. Exception might be paying for school - real school, not culinary school or U. of Phoenix - but it sounds like you've got school covered already. Although, go ahead and use $10-20k to take a trip to Italy or something, just don't make that kind of thing a habit. Sounds like you're thinking clearly about your business acumen and your housing needs, that's good.
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Sep 5, 2015 20:26
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i'd go with hookers and blow gently caress that investing poo poo. you want to be your own man right? not some grandpappy-mooching baby! i'd go ahead and blow it on $10,000 a night escorts and illicit drugs over the course of the next year, and then afterwards when you are your own big success you can feel like you earned it
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Sep 5, 2015 23:27
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onemillionzombies posted:I'm inheriting a substantial amount as well so I've thought about this quite a bit. Do this. And for god's sake, don't buy into a franchise or anything like that. In addition, I suggest continuing or starting to max your 401k and other tax-advantaged retirement accounts rather than sitting on your index/mutual fund cash alone. Congrats!
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Sep 5, 2015 23:50
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Glad to know that the consensus agrees with me re: gently caress franchising. Right now the tentative plan is to get a vehicle that gets better than 9 miles to the gallon, probably a few computer upgrades, and using 10-20k for some backpacking really appeals to me, and the rest into investments, with the retirement fund as another really good idea. How quickly could I get money out of, say, one of those Vanguard accounts, though? Just wondering if it'd be a good idea to keep some of it back for emergencies and such.
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Sep 6, 2015 03:26
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You should absolutely hold out some (figure 6-9 months expenses) in a savings or checking account. I suggest Ally, an online bank offering a savings account with 0.99% interest. That's about as good as you're gonna do.
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Sep 6, 2015 03:34
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Quickly enough, they're not certificates of deposit. Stocks are illiquid in the sense that you don't want to cash them out if the market is slumping. Also  with backpacking. I'd suggest south america, check the travel forum.
i say swears online fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Sep 6, 2015 |
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Sep 6, 2015 03:34
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Lprsti99 posted:Glad to know that the consensus agrees with me re: gently caress franchising. Right now the tentative plan is to get a vehicle that gets better than 9 miles to the gallon, probably a few computer upgrades, and using 10-20k for some backpacking really appeals to me, and the rest into investments, with the retirement fund as another really good idea. How quickly could I get money out of, say, one of those Vanguard accounts, though? Just wondering if it'd be a good idea to keep some of it back for emergencies and such. When looking for jobs, make sure that you consider their 401k plans as a big factor, since you will be able to max that out and save a crapton on taxes. I highly suggest making financial knowledge your primary goal for the next year. There is nobody who cares more about your wealth than you, and at the very least you need to know enough not to get scammed by advisors (and even the well-meaning ones can give bad advice). At the very least, please come back and post here before you put any money into an investment and we'll let you know if you're doing something wrong.
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Sep 6, 2015 03:59
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Also, if you need any friends to go back packing with, I'm sure any of us are willing to join. This is BFC and you just inherited $850K, so you of course have to pay all expenses.
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Sep 6, 2015 05:45
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Take about half of it.. buy MONTHLY dividend paying stocks, put a stop loss on the shares. Take another quarter and put it into QUARTERLY dividend paying stocks, take the rest and keep it for an emergency fund.
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Sep 6, 2015 06:20
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nurse1151 posted:Take about half of it.. buy MONTHLY dividend paying stocks, put a stop loss on the shares. Take another quarter and put it into QUARTERLY dividend paying stocks, take the rest and keep it for an emergency fund. Actually don't buy individual stocks e: Also don't keep an emergency fund of $200K+ 
pig slut lisa fucked around with this message at 07:28 on Sep 6, 2015 |
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Sep 6, 2015 07:02
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nurse1151 posted:Take about half of it.. buy MONTHLY dividend paying stocks, put a stop loss on the shares. Take another quarter and put it into QUARTERLY dividend paying stocks, take the rest and keep it for an emergency fund.
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Sep 6, 2015 07:54
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pig slut lisa posted:e: Also don't keep an emergency fund of $200K+ Emergency yacht fund.
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Sep 6, 2015 08:32
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nurse1151 posted:Take about half of it.. buy MONTHLY dividend paying stocks, put a stop loss on the shares. Take another quarter and put it into QUARTERLY dividend paying stocks, take the rest and keep it for an emergency fund. Please stop trolling BFC.
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Sep 6, 2015 15:07
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pig slut lisa posted:Actually don't buy individual stocks Ayy Lmao
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Sep 6, 2015 17:00
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All the financial advice in this thread is spot on. Additionally you should get an umbrella policy to cover yourself. If someone finds out how much you're worth, you're more likely to get sued.
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Sep 6, 2015 17:32
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The financial advice in this thread has been all good and well, but I haven't noticed anyone suggest that instead of going for Electrical Engineering Technology, he should go for a full Electrical Engineering degree. A Technology degree will limit your options, whereas a full EE degree will open up far more options for you while not really closing any doors from an EET degree. You have the financial means to devote yourself wholly to the education - EE isn't going to be that much harder but will pay off far more in the long run.
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Sep 6, 2015 20:40
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I'd chunk off some of it and give it to some charity or cause you care about. Maybe fund a scholarship or something. You got far luckier than most of us will ever be; kick some down for those of us less lucky. It doesn't need to be a lot.
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Sep 6, 2015 20:51
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Shipon posted:The financial advice in this thread has been all good and well, but I haven't noticed anyone suggest that instead of going for Electrical Engineering Technology, he should go for a full Electrical Engineering degree. A Technology degree will limit your options, whereas a full EE degree will open up far more options for you while not really closing any doors from an EET degree. EE was my original major. There's a big difference between one basic calculus class and four ever-more-advanced calculus classes. I honestly did try, but Calc and my brain weren't playing together so nice  E: That said, I might go back and buckle down on the full EE degree once I'm better set up. Lprsti99 fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Sep 6, 2015 |
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Sep 6, 2015 21:18
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