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I've read Ask/Tell quite a bit as a lurker and thought for once perhaps, I can offer an "ask me" thread. I've been living in Vietnam since August of 2003, which now makes it 13 years and 1 month. I'm a native born Caucasian US citizen with no Vietnamese heritage. (I've read some posts before from VNese about VN). I work in the education industry but no longer teach at the moment. You can ask me anything about (but not limited to): The opinion of many students and adults about certain topics. Food Economy Dating / Women Pros and Cons of travelling Learning / Studying Vientnamese language. Laws Cost of living. The Expat community Trends The gernation gap between the older and younger generations And anything else......
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Sep 5, 2015 07:53
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In your experience, what are the strangest ideas Vietnamese have about the outside world and their own history?
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Sep 5, 2015 10:51
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Kopijeger posted:In your experience, what are the strangest ideas Vietnamese have about the outside world and their own history? That's a big one. My answer is a bit general on that. As for outside world, from my experience and from what locals and foreigners have told me, the Southerners have had a lot more exposure to the world dating back before the 20th Century, than the Northerners who seem to have more Chinese influence and have been more isolated or removed from the world. (I lived in Saigon for 7 years, from 2003 to 2009 and have lived in Hanoi since 2009 until now.) Strange ideas of the world. Not many strange ones. Today, because of technology, VNese have more access to the world in the technological globalized age. When I first arrived I met more adults and teens who claimed to be "communist" even though VN had not been communist in practice for some time (since embarking on "Doi Moi" in 1986 after leader Le Duan died. 13 years ago, I don't recall "strange" ideas but basically a lack of knowledge about the world unless it was through the state controlled media (TV, newspapers.) As for their own historical knowledge, the schools still seem to teach false and strange versions of history. A few yeas ago University students told me that "the North Korean economy is doing well, but they are improving." Me: if the NK economy is doing well, why do they need to improve their economy?" Student: no answer. Me: What sectors of the NK economy are doing well? Student: no answer. It is not uncommon for Unis students and adults to make a comment and then have no reasons or examples to give. Also, there are twisted version of the "American war" and there is a LOT of censorship and omission about events that occurred between the VNese. Once the internet took off in VN (about 2004) and then the social media, a few years later, the VNese have lots of knowledge if they want it. I wish I could give a better answer, but that's the answer.
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Sep 5, 2015 11:30
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I'll take trends and the expat community for 300, Alex.
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Sep 6, 2015 03:50
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UltraRed posted:I'll take trends and the expat community for 300, Alex. This thread may not have legs. If not, that's OK. By "trends" I meant VNese trends. As for expats, I've just noticed the younger generation of Uni grads seem to be more politically-correct and "sensitive." (I'm middle-aged.) Tatts are becoming more common among the youth. Full sleeves, etc. Losing virginity before marriage becoming more common in the cities. K-pop (Korean pop music) is insanely popular as well at Korean TV shows. Some younger people who can afford to rent an apartment are starting to do so, instead of living with the parents and grandparents in the same house. Alex Tebek!!!!!
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Sep 6, 2015 04:01
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What's the draw of living as an expat, most of the folks I've talked to who were living overseas from their home country on a permanent basis had pretty specific and personal reasons for doing so, but it doesn't sound like you've got a ton of family there and presumably Vietnam isn't a top destination for sex tourists, weeaboos, or political exiles. Is there any general trend or generalizable benefits that drew you and the other expats or is it just 'i loving love pho'
A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Sep 6, 2015 |
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Sep 6, 2015 05:56
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:What's the draw of living as an expat, most of the folks I've talked to who were living overseas from their home country on a permanent basis had pretty specific and personal reasons for doing so, but it doesn't sound like you've got a ton of family there and presumably Vietnam isn't a top destination for sex tourists, weeaboos, or political exiles. Is there any general trend or generalizable benefits that drew you and the other expats or is it just 'i loving love pho' What's the draw for living as an expat? Some friends and family used to me ask me that. For me, the number one reason is the lifestyle. Time. In the US, like most Americans I got up around 6 AM drive down the highway to my job, and then got home around 5-6 pm and sometimes later. (I've lived in 3 cities: Seattle, DC, and LA.) In the country I live in, I have more time. I have time to exercise at the gym in the morning or afternoon before or after work, whereas in the US it could only be done at say, 5 AM or after 6 PM. I have more time to pursue personal interests like writing and studying languages. I study French as at French school w/ French teachers and study Chinese. I have more time (seriously) to hangout with friends and drink beer. I'm serious about this. We have more interesting conversations among ourselves and the stories are funny. When I visit home near Seattle, my ol' friends seriously don't have any stories to tell. They will just say they went to a Mariner games last week or will show me some new toy they bought. I have no family in VN. My parents, grandmother, 2 sisters and extended family are in the US. We keep in touch via email b/c of the time difference. Calling is difficult. I visit every Summer or Fall for a month. I'm single, so no wife, and no kids. I have a girlfriend. The good news IMO, is that there are no sexpats, or pervs (that I know of). They're next door in Thailand and Cambodia. In Hanoi I have very rarely met expats that were "lost" or dropouts, or just weird. Saigon however, has a lot of expats who are weird, dodgy, and just not fun to be around. It's easy to tell that back in their home-country they were f-ups back home. People bring their own baggage with them. Food You mentioned "pho." Hee-hee. But seriously, in Hanoi there is a LOT of great places to eat fro VNese restaurants to real international restaurants where if it's Italian, the chef is Italian. Same for Russian restaurants where Russian actually prepare and cook the food. Argentinian steakhouses to French restaurants. The street food is great also. And, you can afford to eat out every day and night and you never check the menu or need to think how much it costs. The prices are affordable.
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Sep 6, 2015 06:51
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You said you work(ed) in the education industry. ESL or something else? What was your work/academic background before you moved? You mention that you're currently studying French. Did you speak any language other than English when you moved? How was the language barrier? I'd also be interested to hear more about the general cost of living - from lodging to utilities.
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Sep 6, 2015 15:17
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Hulk Smash! posted:You said you work(ed) in the education industry. ESL or something else? What was your work/academic background before you moved? Hi. I now work in the Education industry. It's related to EFL. My previous bio (don't fall asleep) was: Academic background: I have a BA from a public Uni in WA state. I did start an MA but was unhappy with the program + the cost of which I was borrowing and I stopped after 1 quarter. I got good grades. It was in 2003 when I returned to do the program and reverse culture shock was a part of it. I returned to Saigon. I worked for a lobbyist firm in Washington DC, after I graduated from a public Washington State University. I did that for 2 years. Lots of competition, low pay, but I got to live 2 blocks from Congress if that means anything. Lots of work, drinking, and learning about work and the world. Then, I got a sales job form a large nationally known company located (then) in Northern Virginia, I worked in the office there for a year and a half, and then they sent me to Seattle (because I was familiar with the area and culture) and then to Los Angeles. After the internet made my job basically irrelevant, I applied for and got accepted for the Peace Corps. But....I had to wait about 9 months until shipping out. So, I traveled across the USA and visited friends and ended up on Ft. Lauderdale, Florida working in a hostel until the Peace Corps teaching job started. That was year 2000. 15 years ago. quote:You mention that you're currently studying French. Did you speak any language other than English when you moved? How was the language barrier? I studied Spanish in US public high school for 2 years b/c it was a requirement to get into Uni back then in WA state. I loved Spanish. I wish I started earlier to get 3 years in. But later in the Winter of 1994 and 1995 I studied Spanish at the Spanish Academies in Antigua, Guatemala, and later in Ecuador in 2013 on a 6 month break from VN. I've had private Spanish teachers in the US in the mid 90s and in Hanoi a couple of years ago. I also studied Greek in Athens, but for only 3 months, and Georgian, Thai, and - this does not count. I studied Vnese for a few years with my private teacher. Language Barrier In the 2 largest cities of Saigon and Hanoi, it's not an issue - usually. Some expats who've been here for years are too lazy to learn the simply survival language skills and they have problem communicating and get frustrated. I have NO sympathy for them!. They are lazy. I have always believed that when you arrive in a new country for more than a few months, you should at least learn the survival and polite language functions. It's not hard. For example, "How much? Do you have? Where is?" etc., *Note: I'm not rich, and my family does not have money. I just lived in studios, had a great credit rating, worked and saved. quote:I'd also be interested to hear more about the general cost of living - from lodging to utilities. This is THE reason.....why I'm here. The cost of living (COL). A good meal IMO: $2 or less (My Kho / My Van Than) - you can cook at home also, Gasoline cost per week on my motorbike: about $5 USD Beer: happy hour less than $1 for a large 660 ML big bottle of Tiger. Drinks about $2. Non-happy hour Big bottle beer about $1.50, Drinks about $2-3. Of course, you can go to expensive clubs where a beer is $8 or a drink is $12, if that is what your'e into. There is a lower to mid to high market on everything. My friends and I can afford to pay more, but why? it's not more fun.. I earn in general about $3,000 net and my apartment is $280 per month for a fully furnished apartment. Of course, some apartment or houses are $500 - $800 and $1,000+ if that's what people want. I could earn $4K if I was willing to hustle work at night, but I don't want to. Note, that is took me 14 years to get at this stage. It's not great, but not bad. People who come here to teach can still work a little to survive or they can work more hours and save if they want.
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Sep 6, 2015 16:24
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What's the general view of America/Americans? Do they talk about the war?
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Sep 6, 2015 16:26
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Mister Kingdom posted:What's the general view of America/Americans? Do they talk about the war? Mister, That's a common question from family and friends in the US, especially my parent's friends who are were growing up back in the 60s and part of the early 70s. General view of America from what I hear: When I first arrived in 2003: "You're American. You are rich. Good jobs in America. America good. Education is good. I want to study in USA. Get good job." Since about 2006: "America is expensive, hard to save money. BUT education is good. I want to study in America. BUT hard to save, salaries are low." Bill Clinton, Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are LOVED here. They are LOVED. As I noted before, because of the internet the VNese are aware of the economic difficulties, random mass shootings, and yes, even the NSA spy program. They are aware of the cost of living, taxes, etc., and the suburbs which lack soul. But they still want to study in the US and get work experience in the US. Some want to live in the US; many now, do not. They only want to study, travel and then return to their family. The war / conflict: The VNese were at war for at least 30+ years. Over 72%+ of the population was born after 1975. Seriously it's discussed less than 1% of the time. I've only had 2-3 occasions where I was met with hostility b/c of my American nationality.
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Sep 6, 2015 16:38
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Positive Optimyst posted:And anything else...... I used to work with a lot of immigrants from that general area and they would talk a lot about supernatural activity (demons, ghosts, etc). They said it was very rampant there. Is it coming for people to have those kind of beliefs there? Have you encountered anything yourself?
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Sep 6, 2015 16:49
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Positive Optimyst posted:K-pop (Korean pop music) is insanely popular as well at Korean TV shows. Is there V-pop?
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Sep 6, 2015 16:52
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AWarmBody posted:I used to work with a lot of immigrants from that general area and they would talk a lot about supernatural activity (demons, ghosts, etc). They said it was very rampant there. From my experience, IMO. The belief in spirits and ghosts and "good spirits and "bad spirits" (A VNese goon can help me) is very BIG - but it seems moreso in the South. In Saigon, many houses and some business have these these Octagonal mirrors above their entry-way doors. This, I'm told, is to keep evil / bad spirits out. Even one of the most popular cafe bars, the "Saigon Cafe" on De Tham Street in Saigon, had the octagon mirror above it's entrance. Also, when young backpacker / traveler would OD on heroin and die in a guest house or hotel room, the staff apparently had problems with the b/c of the fear or concern about ghosts / spirits. I admit, I know little about this. I've heard many traditions about spirits and ghosts which I've forgotten for the moment. I'm sure the VNese goons can help on this topic. quote:Is it coming for people to have those kind of beliefs there? Have you encountered anything yourself? Well, there are a lot of superstitions. On the first day of the New Year, many shop keeper or store owners or bar owners will not sell to single people or potential customers they think won't bring good luck. If you're married that's better luck if you're the first customer. One time, a restaurant / bar owner gave my friend money and told him to "walk around the block" for a couple minutes, come back and order a drink. That way, he would be the first customer of the year, and she liked him and thought he was good luck.
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Sep 6, 2015 16:58
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Mister Kingdom posted:Is there V-pop? Yeah, V-pop is big here, but for some reason - from at least what I'm told by my teens is that K-pop is the popular thing. But yeah, V-pop is big. There is this fixation on things that are "Korean." Fair enough. It's a trend.
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Sep 6, 2015 17:01
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From what youre saying the vietnamese are obsessed with korea, have positive views of NK and marxism, so my question is, did you even try and dispel myths about Capitalism and America or is your purpose in vietnam purely to fraternize with the enemy? I find it very irritating when some goon goes to one of these godless eastern hell holes to spread the protestant work ethic and give them our educational techniques. Aiding and abetting the enemy it used to be called.
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Sep 6, 2015 18:10
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Bitter Mushroom posted:From what youre saying the vietnamese are obsessed with korea, have positive views of NK and marxism, so my question is, did you even try and dispel myths about Capitalism and America or is your purpose in vietnam purely to fraternize with the enemy? 
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Sep 6, 2015 23:01
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Mister Kingdom posted:What's the general view of America/Americans? Do they talk about the war? Going off what the OP said, Americans tend to generalize the war (as we do with everything) as an US vs THEM. The Vietnamese were at war as much with outside powers (Japan, France, USA, China, Cambodia) as they were with each other. We tend to forget it was very much a civil war. This shows greatly in the expat community, at least among the older generation. Younger Viets and Vietnamese-Americans don't seem to really care from my experience, but with their parents/grandparents are obviously more affected by it, and some bitter memories remain. (fun fact, go to any Vietnamese-American shopping center and you will see the old South Flag flown..not the current Red Star flag). Bitter Mushroom posted:From what youre saying the vietnamese are obsessed with korea, have positive views of NK and marxism, so my question is, did you even try and dispel myths about Capitalism and America or is your purpose in vietnam purely to fraternize with the enemy? hahaha wtf is this poo poo?
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Sep 7, 2015 01:50
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Positive Optimyst posted:This thread may not have legs. If not, that's OK. The more content the thread has, the more legs it will have! Anything else about the expat community? What nationalities are prominent? What are your thoughts on them? Also, how's the dating scene?
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Sep 7, 2015 02:15
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How much French is still spoken within Vietnam?
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Sep 7, 2015 03:01
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Bitter Mushroom posted:From what youre saying the vietnamese are obsessed with korea "Obsessed" may be too strong. But South Korean music and these TV drama shows are very popular with the younger generation. There has been some spillover in interest in Korean language as some young people study Korean at Korean language schools and have an interest in Korean food. There are a lot of Korean companies in VN. They came in early to get market share. quote:have positive views of NK In my experience, the Southerners think NK is a scary place but some Northerns (meaning only some I've met) don't think NK is so bad. Part of this is the Northern vs. Southern perspective, IMO. Again, with the access to information and technology, there is more knowledge. quote:and marxism I rarely hear "Marx" mentioned anymore. At all Universities (except for the Foreign Trade Uni) College students spend an academic year studying Marx, Lenin, and Ho Chi Minh ideology. A student told me in these classes (where the curriculum is controlled and directed by the government, that a collection of Marx's writing were compiled and put into one book, translated into Vitenamese of course. Many students have told me these "Marx and Lenin" classes are a waste of time and cannot be used in the real world. And I'm sure it's a very narrow perspective with portions that are lifted from Marx and Lenin, as high level English students cannot even explain the basics. The silly part is that this just may be a form of "saving face" by the current Powers that Be, to keep trying to legitimatize the course they took - which many think and know caused economic hardship. Collectivizing factories and agriculture. Taking almost all of the fisherman's catch when he return to port to disperse it to the people --> give it or sell it to people who have connections. , quote:so my question is, did you even try and dispel myths about Capitalism and America or is your purpose in vietnam purely to fraternize with the enemy? When I taught, I never ventured into that territory. In any class, in any country, I never discuss politics, ideology, religion, or any culturally sensitive topics. Socially however, chatting over a beer, I will give my opinion if someone (a local) else brings up the topic. The younger generation is not into the "isms." Capitalism, Communism, Socialism, Fascism, etc. There are nuances in these "isms." In VN as our world, we're living in a globalized age. Younger and middle-aged people don't care about "isms' or ideology, they just want a decent job, want to travel, have a house, and that kind of stuff. quote:I find it very irritating when some goon goes to one of these godless eastern hell holes to spread the protestant work ethic and give them our educational techniques. Aiding and abetting the enemy it used to be called. What I recently noticed on the social networks - and what I don't like - is a sense of Self-Righteousness by Westerners who've recently come to VN, know little about the culture, and then critique things in a Politically Correct way. They put themselves on this self-righteous pedastool. For example, going on rants and raves about eating dog meat, but they themselves eat beef, chicken, or pork. VN is changing because it the influx of people, companies, and media - I hope VN does not change too much, or changes it's way of thinking. As for Protestant work ethic, VNese people are now working longer hours. Not a good sign. In the US many of us are on a treadmill. We're running. We work a lot, but not only do we NOT save, but we also have large amounts of debt. VN is a saver and pay-cash culture. I've told the VNese that if the Powers That Be want to control a people a very effective way that's not noticeable to most, is to saddle them with debt (like the 30 year mortgage, and CC debt). Debt is a choice of course, but in US culture and society your value as a person is defined by the almighty FICO score. I've met people who pay $80,000 for a car - and they slapped down cash for it. Positive Optimyst fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Sep 7, 2015 |
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Sep 7, 2015 05:53
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Agreeable Employer posted:How much French is still spoken within Vietnam? Older people in their 60s and 70s+ studied French and some are high level. English (back to globazation again) is the most common language studied. But there is a French community in the two big cities of Hanoi and Saigon, and the French Institute, sponsored by the French government, offers courses in French in all skills and levels. There are also quite a few French private teachers in Hanoi. If someone wants to practice French with a native French speaker (or VNese French speaker) it's very easy. Go to French establishments or just bars around town to meet them. French is a popular language to study. I cannot say if Chinese or Japanese is studied more or less.
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Sep 7, 2015 06:06
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UltraRed posted:
The govt keeps these stats. I read them a couple months ago but have forgotten the numbers and nationalites. Generally speaking, and I can't count of course, I think in Saigon there are many more Americans there teaching. There seem to be more people in their 20s and 30s teaching or working in Saigon. I think the weather is the draw and belief that Saigon has more "nightlife." Less expats in Hanoi (but it's growing). Winters can be cold and for 3 months it's overcast. The Hanoian Summers are very hot and humid and there is little breeze. If you're sitting in a chair at 2 AM, you'll be sweating without a fan or A/C. Sometimes in Hanoi Spring is about a week. From cold/cool Winter to a mild week and then Bam! it's hot for Summer. In Hanoi the nationalities seem to be French, Australian, Korean, Brits, and some Americans and Canadians. quote:Also, how's the dating scene? Busy - if you want it to be. I can only speak for Hanoi and Saigon (and I visit Saigon but haven't lived there in 6 years). In Hanoi there is a "marriage culture." It's changing, however in the cities, but when a woman is near or at 25 or 26 she can be pressured by her family to "get married." I think being married also means you're "normal." Does this mean people are marrying who they truly want to marry? Or, are they just getting married for the sake of "getting married." Because of this, there are a lot marriages of convenience. There are a lot of sincere marriages of course, but a lot of marriages of convenience. Divorce seems to be increasing a little. There seem to be more and more single (divorced) MILFs in Hanoi now. The dating websites are very busy. I'm middle-aged and a little over-weight. Women in the 20s will date me and some would be committed to me, and not ask for a dime. In the US, women in their 20s would never consider being with a guy like me. Age is more of a factor in the West than in Asia. I've dated a few women. The culture differences are there and we often can only talk about little things, but not things of substance. Plus the language barrier for some.. In the last year and a half, I was dating a couple / few different women at the same time. I'm no playboy. I'm not into women chasing, but it just turned out this way. Now, I'm only with one casual girlfriend who've I've been with for 13 months. IMO, many (but not all) women here are reserved, a bit secretive, and promiscuous. I'm not saying all are. Positive Optimyst fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Sep 7, 2015 |
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Sep 7, 2015 06:24
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I find it interesting how you refer to Ho Chi Minh City as Saigon. I would have thought that the govt would discourage using that name, is that not the case? Is it because you're taking to us here, or do people use Saigon commonly?
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Sep 7, 2015 06:34
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Original_Z posted:I find it interesting how you refer to Ho Chi Minh City as Saigon. I would have thought that the govt would discourage using that name, is that not the case? Is it because you're taking to us here, or do people use Saigon commonly? I call it "Saigon" because I think it sounds better. "Ho Chi Minh City" IMO, is an ugly sounding name for a city. In Hanoi almost everyone (and I mean 99.9%) calls it "Ho Chi Minh City," regardless of age. In Saigon, some folks over 50 years of age call it Saigon. They and their families are from Saigon. In class I called it "Ho Chi Minh City" although students did not care. For govt correspondance or work you write or say "Ho Chi Minh City." The younger generation in Saigon IMO, usually call it "Ho Chi Minh City" because that is all they've known. The name change was in 1975, or shortly thereafter. I am not sympathetic to so-called communist causes. That said, he is considered by many to be a nationalist who declared Independence on September 2, 1945, and fought against the French. He's highly revered. In Hanoi I've never heard a single economic or political policy of his discussed. But in Saigon, some have told me "he took the wrong path." You can ask a Saigonese person who's older: "what was life like before communism." You cannot ask that to a Hanoian. No one is alive to remember. For myself, I'm an individualist more than a collectivist. I've studied communism in Poli-Sci and have done research. No thanks, I'll pass. So, there is a subtle political bent on my part. Also, the cult of personality is mind-numbing. On every single currency paper note it's only him. No other figures in history.
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Sep 7, 2015 06:56
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When I was in Saigon there was many mentions of that name and businesses that included it in their names. I got the impression HCM City wasn't used in everyday communication except when things had to be official. Much like Leningrad went back to St. Petersburg I expect HCM city to eventually revert too. But we'll see. It was hot as hell btw.
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Sep 7, 2015 07:13
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His Divine Shadow posted:When I was in Saigon there was many mentions of that name and businesses that included it in their names. I got the impression HCM City wasn't used in everyday communication except when things had to be official. The downtown central area is actually called "Sai Gon." I think it's even official. It's weird. Yes, lots of business have the name. The whole "name change" is just more cult of personality, arrogance of the victory, and hypocrisy of the greedy and shallow Northerners and Southern NLF, AKA the Viet Cong. quote:Much like Leningrad went back to St. Petersburg I expect HCM city to eventually revert too. But we'll see. I do not think this will happen. Not at all. quote:It was hot as hell btw. Sai Gon, In April and May can be a sauna. Locals feel it less, but my ancestors were from Central and Northern Europe and I think that has something to do with it. At first I had beads of sweat dripping from my nose, even. My shirt was soaked in sweat and I was sitting in the shade at Noon, sipping a coffee or beer. Then, about year and a half later, I adapted in some way. I sweated less and even became accustomed to April and May (also known as "hot season.") Hanoi on the other hand, has more fierce Summers. I get nasty heat rashes and have had 2 bacterial infections. No complaints though. It goes with the territory.
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Sep 7, 2015 15:00
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thank you for the informative answers, btw you are now to be known as 'Saigoon'
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Sep 8, 2015 02:03
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Bitter Mushroom posted:thank you for the informative answers, btw you are now to be known as 'Saigoon' "Saigoon" has a nice ring to it BM, but I'm in Hanoi now so maybe I'm "Hannoy-goon."
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Sep 8, 2015 02:14
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Come say hello in the SE Asia thread, the best thread in Tourism and Travel, OP. Our current slot for "Vietnam guy" has been vacated because Senso moved to the Carribean somewhere where he hates it relative to Long China. Tytan has Cambodia, Reindeer has Thailand, Rhino has Malaysia. No Indogoon either. I cover shitposts. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3260679 Here's a question. Let's say it was 13 years ago and you could tell yourself what to do to get a good non-education job that would have you living in Bietnum. What advice/suggestions would you have? raton fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Sep 8, 2015 |
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Sep 8, 2015 03:09
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Sheep-Goats posted:Come say hello in the SE Asia thread, the best thread in Tourism and Travel, OP. Our current slot for "Vietnam guy" has been vacated because Senso moved to the Carribean somewhere where he hates it relative to Long China. Tytan has Cambodia, Reindeer has Thailand, Rhino has Malaysia. No Indogoon either. I cover shitposts. That's the $64 million dollar question. Wish I knew then, and I wish I knew now. There is a saying: "teach English or nothing." I know people that burned out in EFL and are just going through the motions. But they keep doing it. Is there an alternative? Yes, but it's tricky. One option IMO, is to start a business, primarily some kind of service. A unique service. There is often lots of competition usually by locals who often run businesses and general common services out of their houses they own and they have less overhead. I think an expat needs a service that is unique and has some kind of niche market, be it local, foreign, or mixed. NOT a bar or restaurant. That's usually the first thing and easiest thing that an expat does when hey try to escape from EFL. I've seen many people lose lots of money and I've seen lots of bars and restaurants fail. It's usually a "hobby that costs you money." If you stay overseas long enough in a community in SE Asia, you'll surely be offered to "own" or "buy into a bar." Too many sad stories there, especially with partners involved. Another option is something related to IT, software, or something involving computer programs. I know a guy who works on game software for clients all over the world. He could do this job anywhere. I have one friend who translates Thai to English and vice versa from clients in Thailand. He's in another country. Not exciting work, me thinks. That's all I have to think of. Positive Optimyst fucked around with this message at 08:24 on Sep 8, 2015 |
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Sep 8, 2015 08:22
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Positive Optimyst posted:NOT a bar or restaurant. That's usually the first thing and easiest thing that an expat does when hey try to escape from EFL. I've seen many people lose lots of money and I've seen lots of bars and restaurants fail. It's usually a "hobby that costs you money." This is good advice for everywhere in the world. Don't ever invest in a friend's restaurant or bar.
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Sep 8, 2015 17:11
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I had a guy I was working with years back who wanted me to come with him to Vietnam to help set up his company, where he'd apparently had some whole patronage system worked out, and I bailed because he was really bad about returning phone calls and lol gently caress being stranded on the far end of the world and only ever getting an answering machine from the only English-speaking contact you've got. I'm kinda curious now, just how completely hosed would you be dropped into the middle of Hanoi and not speaking a word of the language or anything. could you, like, find a place to spend the night, get to an embassy, order food
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Sep 8, 2015 17:29
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:I had a guy I was working with years back who wanted me to come with him to Vietnam to help set up his company, where he'd apparently had some whole patronage system worked out, and I bailed because he was really bad about returning phone calls and lol gently caress being stranded on the far end of the world and only ever getting an answering machine from the only English-speaking contact you've got. I'm kinda curious now, just how completely hosed would you be dropped into the middle of Hanoi and not speaking a word of the language or anything. could you, like, find a place to spend the night, get to an embassy, order food If you do it once you'll never worry about this stuff again. First of all there's always someone who speaks some English, especially in a big city like Hanoi and at hotels and airlines and other tourist oriented places. Second, if you were a deafmute do you think you'd starve to death? All you need to order food is a finger to point with and money to pay at the end. This doesn't mean pitching in with a flake automatically becomes a good idea, but what you're worried about is absolutely negligible.
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Sep 8, 2015 18:24
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Positive Optimyst posted:That's the $64 million dollar question. Wish I knew then, and I wish I knew now. Reindeer owns/operates a medical tourism company in Bangkok. I strongly suspect that a lot of the digital nomad type people are making less than English teachers. I've actually worked in bars and could probably run a profitable one given the right location, but don't have the capital to do it right. Wouldn't touch a restaurant with a ten foot pole though. Thanks for the post anyway.
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Sep 8, 2015 18:27
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Sheep-Goats posted:If you do it once you'll never worry about this stuff again. First of all there's always someone who speaks some English, especially in a big city like Hanoi and at hotels and airlines and other tourist oriented places. Second, if you were a deafmute do you think you'd starve to death? All you need to order food is a finger to point with and money to pay at the end. This doesn't mean pitching in with a flake automatically becomes a good idea, but what you're worried about is absolutely negligible. I wouldn't have put up with that guy pulling that poo poo if it was right here in my hometown I was just curious how much local knowledge/vocabulary/contacts you need. Every time I've travelled there've definitely been people hanging around who prey on dumbass tourists who wandered out of their quarter for a living and so on and, like, those guys are nbd if you're there on a specific task with some kind of support system but if you're just dropped in the city and left to fend for yourself, i dunno, maybe that's not so much a thing in Vietnam
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Sep 8, 2015 18:43
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If you're a mark you get treated like one by the sort of people who do that, which are a variable number of people in any given population. Vietnam is probably the worst country in SE Asia in that regard and that aspect of the country is what expats residing in neighboring countries make fun of first in the Expat Wars, however while not exactly a negligible concern it's certainly a negotiable one. Way more than most will be basically honest with you, the vast majority of the remainder are only interested in shearing a sheep and not skinning it, and of the truly gross remaining exploitative personalities most are mentally broken enough that you realize you want nothing to do with the fucker before he even gets close to getting his claws in. In a city like Hanoi there can't be more than 100 total people who a) want to take advantage of you, b) want to take everything they can get instead of just a little extra, and c) are socially / linguistically capable of doing this without making it patently obvious that this is what they're up to. I would guess it's actually less than a dozen. The main issue is that it gets irritating telling these kinds of jerks to gently caress off when you happen into a string of them -- obviously this is most likely to happen in large tourist zones that attract these kinds of operators. Not so much that actually getting taken advantage of will ruin you. But this is always offset by the rewards of being in the place you're in and for everywhere in SE Asia at least those are really hugely considerable. Being able to negotiate through or at least avoid these assholes is a learned skill. We don't learn it in the US because these sorts of people almost don't exist here and because we're on native soil anyway. But the overall frequency and sophistication for day to day exploitation is so low in SE Asia, even in Vietnam, that anyone who isn't full on autistic will figure it out with only very minor bumps in the road. I mean, maybe you pay an extra 3 dollars for a thing that should only be 10 (but that back home costs 55 anyway) a few times before realizing it. Maybe you waste a few hours by listening to the advice of an overly friendly local once or twice who is just looking for payouts for bringing tourists into a particular shop of some sort that just happens to be on the way. Exposure to this very quickly builds up your ability to spot someone who is trying to do that and once concealment is gone its (almost) never an issue to just back out. These kinds of things can become a real issue in a place like Lagos where the hustler/human ratio gets borderline apocalyptic, or in Haiti where backing out is no longer always easy due to the barrel of a gun, but SE Asia is babbys first WRT these situations. I have a story I tell sometimes about going along with a blackjack scam for fun in Bangkok for example, whereas if I were in the wrong part of Mexico I wouldn't be splashing in any puddles that even remotely trip any spidy senses because the stakes are a lot larger and its much more likely you'll be forced to pay out. raton fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Sep 8, 2015 |
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Sep 8, 2015 19:08
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Vietnam was the friendliest place I travelled through in SE Asia, and the food was probably the best too. You mentioned the North had a lot of connections to China, but I had several conversations there that strayed into politics and I sensed a deep dislike of China, and a belief that China was manipulating the Vietnamese govt and taking advantage of resources technically on the sovereign territory of Vietnam. No idea how true any of that is, any thoughts?
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Sep 8, 2015 19:49
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Jeza posted:Vietnam was the friendliest place I travelled through in SE Asia, and the food was probably the best too. You mentioned the North had a lot of connections to China, but I had several conversations there that strayed into politics and I sensed a deep dislike of China, and a belief that China was manipulating the Vietnamese govt and taking advantage of resources technically on the sovereign territory of Vietnam. The "link" with China is cultural and values and attitudes. The Chinese controlled Vietnam for 1,000 years from the northern border to just south of Danang, so there is an influence that remains. Chinese was the writing system before Rhodes changed it into a romanized alphabet about 400 years ago. You'll see Chinese writing on very old statues and stone edifices. But politically, China is very disliked for several reasons. The most recent is the conflict over who owns / controls the Spratley islands. Also, in 1979, there was a brief but fierce border war with China at the VN-China border. VN has left the damaged buildings the way they are in the Quang Ninh province as a reminder. Lots of locals mention the flood unhealthy foods from China that a smuggled or brought into VN. Food with chemicals, etc., Off to work now.
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Sep 9, 2015 01:40
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:I had a guy I was working with years back who wanted me to come with him to Vietnam to help set up his company, where he'd apparently had some whole patronage system worked out, and I bailed because he was really bad about returning phone calls and lol gently caress being stranded on the far end of the world and only ever getting an answering machine from the only English-speaking contact you've got. Was this in the 1990s or early 2000s? I assume so. Was he a Viet Khieu (overseas) Vietnamese person? Did he want you, a US citizen or non-Vietnamese, to invest money in this deal? quote:I'm kinda curious now, just how completely hosed would you be dropped into the middle of Hanoi and not speaking a word of the language or anything. could you, like, find a place to spend the night, get to an embassy, order food The big cities and towns are very easy. (Like most places in the world). There are many, many, hotels of all price ranges and "stars" in Hanoi and Saigon. I think there might even be too many. Lots of guesthouses also. Even back then, you could have flown in and just told the taxi driver at the airport in English the tourist area you would be interested in going to. You then just walk down the street and you can pick and choose which hotel or guesthouse you want. Or, have an address written on paper when you get in the taxi at the airport. Now, it's different with the internet and Trip Adviser and web forums, etc. Even Couch surfing is here. Lots of places to eat. At VNese restaurants, many have menus with a photos of the dish, so if you don't know the lingo, you can order and know what your getting. I can only speak for the US Embassy. It only deals with renewing of passports, and visa applications for VNese who are applying and interviewing for restaurants. Strangely, there are some American expats that go to the US embassy and to file a complaint over a business deal, or a scam, or a legal matter involving lawsuits or even jail time. None of this is the embassies responsibility. One good thing, and perhaps the only good thing about using the Embassy is: you can renew your US passport in literally 7-8 days when you're overseas. It takes longer when you're within the US. And also, the US embassy does not serve food. 
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Sep 9, 2015 05:36
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