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rules posted:When making a thread asking for advice, please include: your age, income, assets, debts, financial goals, and anything else that might relate to your situation.
So after 12 years of higher education, I need to figure out how it’s all worth. It’s been difficult because of my unique set of qualifications, including a BS in Computer Engineering, an MD, and finally an MS in Biomedical Engineering. I’m finally getting a job. It’s a perfect fit for me in a niche where all my degrees and research experience will be valuable. I’m the only candidate for the position, and I’m not seeking other offers. The CMO of this small R+D division, the hiring manager, and myself seem to all be on the same page, but HR has been a huge hassle for everyone, including myself with their lowball offers. HR manages the 18k employees of a hospital network and doesn’t share the vision of this very small division or department that employs a handful of engineers. The hiring manager initially wrote a job description listing MD and MS as preferred credentials, and based on this HR offered me 50k because [beep boop] that is what a first-year resident makes. This incorrect for reasons that should be obvious (residency is continued training rather than a full-on job, and residents work for peanuts in exchange for a huge payoff later). The hiring manager then went and found a job description for an advanced position that he had available that he knew would be valued higer, though it does not mention MD as a requirement. With this, HR offered me 80k, and came back at 85k after countering. For a bit of context, the average starting salary for the most recent grads from my BS program was 82k. The manager agrees that this is a bit low, and has suggested I help him by finding some job postings from other companies looking for someone with an MD and MS in engineering, with an associated starting salary range. He says with this data, he can write a third job description and easily get a better offer from HR. The trouble is, this seems to be a very rare combination, and it’s very difficult to find such postings. I’ve tried searching the usual websites like glassdoor and monster. I know several other engineers from med school, but they all went to residency with plans to practice medicine. So I’d really appreciate any advice in finding data on this, or a point to anywhere else I should ask. If I don’t find any this week, I think I’ll accept the current offer and continue to look. Both the manager and recruiter have assured me that I can be promoted to a different title later on with no drawback related to my salary before promotion. Though, obviously I would like to be valued appropriately from the start if this is possible. I can coast for another month or so on savings, but I have no income at the moment and will need to start earning. Thanks in advance for any help.
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Sep 15, 2015 22:37
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| # ¿ May 21, 2024 19:38 |
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oRenj9 posted:Are you licensed to practice medicine then? I guess I'm confused as to why you would have an MD, then go on to pursue an engineering degree that earns you 1/3 of what you could make using your MD. If the position requires and MD, then it seems like it should at least pay market value for one. The fact that they are offering $85k when I thought it would be at least $100k more than that means that I must be missing something. I didn't get into residency. I went all-in for surgery but didn't have the stats for it. You might think that I made stupid or stubborn decisions regarding that, but it doesn't really matter at this point. quote:Depending on where you live, $85k seems like a decent starting salary for an Bio. Eng. On the other hand, it's really low for what I'd expect from a position requiring an MD. I think you're anchored to the $85k figure, so I wouldn't expect to negotiate much higher than that. HR isn't going to budge at all from 85k, that's not what I'm going for. If I can find data to support the hiring manager in writing and valuing a third job description, HR will start over and come up with a new offer completely unrelated to previously offered numbers. slap me silly posted:If the company cared about the MD, they would pay accordingly and the hiring manager would do his own legwork on it. Obviously they don't value it. There isn't a monolithic entity that is "the company". There is the manager and the CMO, who very clearly value me as they've gotten me two job offers now with having never met me. I had a very brief phone conversation with the CMO because I insisted on it, and at that point hadn't even exchanged emails with the manager. Then, there is HR and the compensation executives who look at the job description and come up with the numbers. The people who want me have absolutely no input to that process except for the job description. They tried putting MD in the first time around and HR dropped the ball. quote:Your lack of residency experience is hugely significant, you can't just blow it off as "residents work for cheap in exchange for more money later". Did you do an internship at least? This is true--I'm not expecting to make anything close to what someone would make after completing a residency and I'm not blowing anything off. However... "residents work for cheap in exchange for more money later" is also completely true. It's not even controversial. Resident pay is nothing more than a stipend to get you through training. Amara: I think I addressed your first paragraph in the replies above. Amara posted:If you want to know your value, apply to many places and have them bid against each other. Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it. Yes, ultimately this is probably what I'm going to have to do over the next year.
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Sep 16, 2015 22:30
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Droo posted:Would you be able to apply for a non-surgery residency next year or something that is more likely to work out? That would be pretty difficult at this point. Not only will the odds be so much worse for having been out of med school so long, but I'd have no obvious way to get letters of rec for a different specialty. Also, the reason I didn't pursue other specialties from the beginning is that I'd rather do engineering anyway. quote:Do you do programming? Is programming involved in this job? Yes, for sure. I went through a really good computer engineering program, and I anticipate a fair bit of coding involved in the job. Xandu posted:There appear to be at least a few MD/MS programs for bioengineering, so it's not unheard of, but I couldn't find any jobs advertising for that particular combo. Thanks, this seems to be a good lead. quote:It does seem, though obviously i'm not an authority, like if you don't go the MD route all the way through, you're more closely valued at a regular biomedical engineering salary. I agree--I expect to make closer to a bioengineer than a practicing physician. KernelSlanders posted:At the risk of sounding slightly harsh: you are not worth anything; what you do is what is worth something. So, what are you going to do for this company? How much value for that company will your services create? It's a small office with about 5 engineers, and there doesn't seem to really be a division of labor. One person can have their hands on all aspects of a project. So, one day I may be writing code, and another day I may be using power tools. I will probably have the best computer/electronics background in the office, and I'll be the only one with a significant medical background. Other engineers will consult me for my medical knowledge and experience. quote:That should be the basis of your salary negotiations. If you're capable working the the profession your MD was supposed to train you for, then your opportunity cost can anchor your salary negotiations as well. There isn't really any negotiating to be done in the traditional sense. I just need to find some comparable postings.
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Sep 17, 2015 23:09
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