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i want her to be crowned empress of the card games, seated upon a throne of skulls
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Oct 20, 2015 09:03
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Lemon Curdistan posted:I hope Wizard's Soul concludes with her realising the folly of her Blue ways and changing to a better colour, like literally anything else, even White. No, she should learn the ways of ultimate dickery: Blue Black. 
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Oct 20, 2015 17:12
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She should be nice instead.
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Oct 20, 2015 17:14
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i like the core of the story that is following a nice person having to be a relentless jerk because of circumstances. she hates it, everyone hates it, except her boyfriend who is now fantasizing about her brutally stepping on his face, but she has to do it because her dad is thousands of dollars in debt plus I like the moments where she plays some sort of useless scrub tier common card to seize victory, like it's neat that iirc she hasn't played so much as a modestly heavy monster card
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Oct 20, 2015 17:40
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I can't self-insert into her love-interest because he's a massive M and I'm a sadistic psycho.
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Oct 20, 2015 17:42
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Gyra_Solune posted:i like the core of the story that is following a nice person having to be a relentless jerk because of circumstances. she hates it, everyone hates it, except her boyfriend who is now fantasizing about her brutally stepping on his face, but she has to do it because her dad is thousands of dollars in debt It's seems more like she's playing seemingly "oddball" cards, but only because no one is playing permission control like she is so cards that only work for that strategy don't show up in the meta. It's a strange meta tbh since that sort of control is just really good in general unless a very fast aggro exists (and then the rock-paper-scissors thing in meta archetypes shows up).
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Oct 20, 2015 19:10
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K. Flaps posted:I can't self-insert into her love-interest because he's a massive M and I'm a sadistic psycho. Same.
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Oct 20, 2015 19:11
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Well since y'all were talking about it... I'll put it up on batoto later, after I have some to time to check it when it's not four am aaaaaa
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Oct 20, 2015 20:17
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z0glin Warchief posted:Well since y'all were talking about it... Thank you, zoglin, for posting the zoglin comics
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Oct 20, 2015 20:22
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I appreciated the notes on terminology; most of it I'd kinda gotten the gist of from context but that clarified some things.
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Oct 20, 2015 20:31
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I like Ohta and I hope she keeps showing up as a rival to Manaka.
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Oct 20, 2015 20:31
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Man she is playing the permissionest permission to ever permission.Gyra_Solune posted:i like the core of the story that is following a nice person having to be a relentless jerk because of circumstances. she hates it, everyone hates it, except her boyfriend who is now fantasizing about her brutally stepping on his face, but she has to do it because her dad is thousands of dollars in debt Basically (if my memory is serving me right of this very short comic), notice the difference in perspective that the peanut gallery has to her playing and her actual opponents.
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Oct 20, 2015 20:31
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z0glin Warchief posted:Well since y'all were talking about it... yay new chapter! 
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Oct 20, 2015 21:23
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i'm so glad she stomped Ouji after those girls pulled that "here's her decklist" crap. also yeah, i'm not even a big tcg player and the permission stuff is just legitimate strategy. i'm sure it sucks to run into unprepared, but card games are already a bunch of luck and not necessarily knowing your opponent's tools. i feel bad that she keeps getting bullied over it.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:36
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I kinda like how they treat it as an rear end in a top hat thing in this universe. It's just funny to me because it's like a joke in MtG that people who play blue decks are lame, but in a world where the card game is super important that gets escalated. It's nice to see her struggle with having to play this way, and seeing the nice quiet girl looked upon like some kind of demon.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:41
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Yeah i think taking the manga in the context of normie world makes it seem odd, but in their world permission is a lost archetype that isn't known or popular and not flashy for tcg celebritites to have their playstyle make an impactGyra_Solune posted:i like the core of the story that is following a nice person having to be a relentless jerk because of circumstances. she hates it, everyone hates it, except her boyfriend who is now fantasizing about her brutally stepping on his face, but she has to do it because her dad is thousands of dollars in debt This and playing the deck is giving her ptsd from her dying mother annihilating a little girl at a card game instead of being a mom so she can't even be happy at winning till she goes to the shadow realm and fights satan for her moms soul
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Oct 20, 2015 21:48
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it makes for a good conflict, and i'm not incapable of getting into that mindset, it just bugs me that Manaka gets treated like crap for it. 
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Oct 20, 2015 21:52
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Twiddy posted:but from the perspective of someone who plays these games somewhat seriously, she's not actually doing anything assholish at all. No, she's playing assholish decks that are designed to win by making GBS threads all over her opponent's ability to do anything (which is not in any way fun to be on the receiving end of), and on top of that she's just stone-faced and looks miserable throughout the entire game. She's definitely not exhibiting the pinnacle of good sportsmanship, and just because real-life M:tG tournaments are that competitive doesn't mean her behaviour is okay. The Netrunner competitive scene gets by just fine with people being friendly at tournaments, for example (and also doesn't really have deck archetypes that prevent the opponent from acting). Also, janky doesn't really mean "bad," it just means "only works in an incredibly narrow set of situations." 
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Oct 20, 2015 21:55
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Lemon Curdistan posted:No, she's playing assholish decks that are designed to win by making GBS threads all over her opponent's ability to do anything (which is not in any way fun to be on the receiving end of), and on top of that she's just stone-faced and looks miserable throughout the entire game. She's definitely not exhibiting the pinnacle of good sportsmanship, and just because real-life M:tG tournaments are assholishly competitive doesn't mean her behaviour is totally okay. Plus again this is a world where this card game is like, the basis for society so presumably there's some sort of untold honor and morality about it, since it's not just the hyper-competitive who get into it, but instead basically every normal person around. After all what's-his-face was literally going to university for this game - it's clearly something people put a ton of their lives and futures into. Manaka's doing the equivalent of those companies that buy up other companies, suck all the blood they can out of it, then leave it to die. Not really illegal, and a genuine strategy to acquire greater wealth, but basically everyone is going to tell you that the kind of people who'd do those kinds of things are giant heartless scumbags.
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Oct 20, 2015 22:04
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Lemon Curdistan posted:No, she's playing assholish decks that are designed to win by making GBS threads all over her opponent's ability to do anything (which is not in any way fun to be on the receiving end of), and on top of that she's just stone-faced and looks miserable throughout the entire game. I'm honestly not gonna dignify this any further, this is just a hilarious mentality. I play both Netrunner and MtG, it's not a problem that's a difference between mindsets of both communities, it's bad players applying moral ethics to legitimate play styles because they're bad.
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Oct 20, 2015 22:07
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Like if we want to get into discussions about lovely, scummy behavior that exists in card games (that I will admit that I see a lot more of in MtG than in Netrunner) we can talk about misleading the other player like the infamous, "I use Profane Command to give fear to all my legal targets" implying that the player gave Chameleon Colossus fear so that the other player would misplay. THAT'S scummy and is manipulating information around the actual gameplay in order to obfuscate the game state and create a bad feeling (also technically within the rules of the game, because I guess WotC doesn't want to go down the road of enforcing moral behavior, or even trying to set that standard of morality around it). Choosing to play a permission deck, playing it well, and being somewhat stone-faced about it is nothing like that.
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Oct 20, 2015 22:14
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Yeah I don't think her deck itself is scummy or her attitude or w/e in our world where it's literally just a childrens game but it makes more sense in the context of the established world She's p much playing a heels deck and would be the antagonist in the typical sports genre
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Oct 20, 2015 22:25
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There's nothing stopping everyone else from also playing permission decks. It's not Manaka's fault if no one else knows how to deal with a legitimate strategy. See also: Fighting games
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Oct 20, 2015 22:28
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z0glin Warchief posted:Well since y'all were talking about it... Praise be!
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Oct 20, 2015 22:29
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Wow, magic the gathering is not a childrens game also i played blue
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Oct 20, 2015 22:35
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Twiddy posted:Like if we want to get into discussions about lovely, scummy behavior that exists in card games (that I will admit that I see a lot more of in MtG than in Netrunner) we can talk about misleading the other player like the infamous, "I use Profane Command to give fear to all my legal targets" implying that the player gave Chameleon Colossus fear so that the other player would misplay. THAT'S scummy and is manipulating information around the actual gameplay in order to obfuscate the game state and create a bad feeling (also technically within the rules of the game, because I guess WotC doesn't want to go down the road of enforcing moral behavior, or even trying to set that standard of morality around it). It's basically like Poker. Being stonefaced isn't scummy or bad. It's just making sure the opponent can't read your plays. As for the control cards, from what I can tell, it's not a completely Blue control. To do stuff like she did, it'd probably be UBR (Grixis, Blue, Black, Red) since both Red and Blue "steal" creatures, but Blue doesn't give them back unlike Red (Red also gives Haste to creatures it's stolen) so at first glance, it's clearly a control that's predominantly Blue, but there's definitely a splash of Red and Black in there. Likely more Black than Red given that Blue doesn't have a destructive board wipe (there's board wipe via bounce however). Black and White can do that sort of wipe though and Black is also in the realm of Milling while White is also in the realm of Permission Control. Obviously it's not clear how the color pie in this game is divided up, but in MtG terms, it'd likely be UB (Blue/Black) with a bit of Red. Yasser Arafatwa posted:Yeah I don't think her deck itself is scummy or her attitude or w/e in our world where it's literally just a childrens game but it makes more sense in the context of the established world For whatever reason, the meta in that world and region doesn't use that sort of control. It's bizarre.
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Oct 20, 2015 22:37
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DoubleDonut posted:There's nothing stopping everyone else from also playing permission decks. It's not Manaka's fault if no one else knows how to deal with a legitimate strategy. Permission control is a legit strategy that falls apart to super fast aggro. i.e. getting out more threats and more damage, more often than the opponent can handle them or stop them. Of course, it's an archetype that loses to any sort of deck that can stall or put up a sufficient defense such that the aggro deck just runs out of steam. It's the type of deck the hot-blooded character in a shonen card game series might use. See also: Hearthstone
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Oct 20, 2015 22:42
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Yasser Arafatwa posted:Yeah I don't think her deck itself is scummy or her attitude or w/e in our world where it's literally just a childrens game but it makes more sense in the context of the established world Player psychology can be really weird sometimes.
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Oct 20, 2015 22:52
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People like MTG style games because it lets them use a bunch of cool monsters and spells. Permission/Control is the strategy of not not letting people use their monsters and spells. It's not too hard to see why a lot of people don't like it. I don't care too much for MTG, but when I played, I tried to play like protagonist girl, because if I'm not going to have fun, no one is.
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Oct 20, 2015 23:45
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Red/green with big stompy critters is the only honorable way to play MtG. Goblins are also acceptable.
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Oct 20, 2015 23:51
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Pavlov posted:People like MTG style games because it lets them use a bunch of cool monsters and spells. Permission/Control is the strategy of not not letting people use their monsters and spells. It's not too hard to see why a lot of people don't like it. I don't care too much for MTG, but when I played, I tried to play like protagonist girl, because if I'm not going to have fun, no one is. It's a difference in mentality that ends up making the difference between a successful and unsuccessful player. With that let's go back and look at the original post I quoted: Gyra_Solune posted:i like the core of the story that is following a nice person having to be a relentless jerk because of circumstances. she hates it, everyone hates it, except her boyfriend who is now fantasizing about her brutally stepping on his face, but she has to do it because her dad is thousands of dollars in debt EDIT: That said I guess calling out that point as wrong isn't fair, since she does do some things that are quite cold (taking all her crush' pro point things is kinda low out of context). Twiddy fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 00:11
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chumbler posted:Red/green with big stompy critters is the only honorable way to play MtG. Whiners gonna whine. They labeled Steinitz as cowardly for playing positional chess.
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Oct 21, 2015 02:56
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chumbler posted:Red/green with big stompy critters is the only honorable way to play MtG. The best way is Midrange. Enough firepower to make creatures unignorable, enough removal to deny them a board. The only thing more infuriating than Permission control is Permission control with Land destruction.
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Oct 21, 2015 04:19
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Xelkelvos posted:The best way is Midrange. Enough firepower to make creatures unignorable, enough removal to deny them a board. Basically the only consistent line between all the most hated decks throughout history is that they were the best deck.
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Oct 21, 2015 04:41
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Twiddy posted:She isn't being a relentless jerk, that is the general perception of the unwashed masses upon her play style, which she agonizes over because she plays a lot of new/low level players (kids, bad classmates) and she has complex issues relating to the strategy because of her mom. Her feelings toward herself are not indicative of what she should be feeling at all, especially when she's playing against professionals. The main thing is that she feels like she's being a relentless jerk. That's what matters for the story's purpose.
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Oct 21, 2015 05:04
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Yes_Cantaloupe posted:The main thing is that she feels like she's being a relentless jerk. That's what matters for the story's purpose. Basically, the post I quoted framed it as a story where a good girl is doing bad things because of necessity, which while partially true (again, all of a sudden stealing all her not-boyfriends pro points out of nowhere), but the permission playing interacts with that in an interesting way because it has a certain perception of being bad, but is really just another way to play the game.
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Oct 21, 2015 05:17
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I'm an rear end in a top hat who plays outdated mechanics like Shadow or Phasing. For fun. Funny enough, my most popular deck to play against is my Snow deck. People just love it, even though it's kind of mediocre. And not in a "I can finally beat the poo poo out of you" way either. We start saying as many ice and snow puns as we can think of. What I'm saying is that I'm a Yugioh character in real life. "You don't stand... the ghost of a chance!"
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Oct 21, 2015 05:21
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you're going to love the next opponent in wizard's soul then i fear for the flood of cat puns to come
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Oct 21, 2015 05:27
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Gyra_Solune posted:you're going to love the next opponent in wizard's soul then
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Oct 21, 2015 05:33
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I played a grand total of one game of MTG and Wizard's Soul is extremely my poo poo. Thank you Zoglin.
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Oct 21, 2015 07:26
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