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I recently read this article which lays out the history of privilege and identity politics. It lays out a very convincing argument that the development of these concepts were created as a means to split radical americans and discourage the possibility of radical revolution throughout the world. With the election of Jeremy Corbyn, possibly the first proper leftist leader of the 21st century in the developed world, we have seen him constantly attacked using Identity Politics and Privilege Politics. I'm starting to believe that this article is 100% true. And racial and gender and LGBT policies should be sidelined in favor of full on revolutionary class strife politics. Which we do not see in most of the developed world. I mean when was the last time you saw a politician call for the death of the heads of Goldman Sachs on television? You don't. Because we don't have a active left. And the hope for revolution in the developed world is quickly dying. The only hope for true change in this world is with violence. In order for us to be able to bring about the kind of changes we need to save it, in the short amount of time we have; revolutionary tendencies must be accelerated by any means necessary. Identity Politics seeks to do the exact opposite of what is needed: ergo it must be a creation of the fascist right to divide and conquer the working class and prevent class consciousness and uprising. What do you think?
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Sep 19, 2015 02:08
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| # ? May 11, 2024 07:58 |
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I think that while violence may be a tool which can be used to constructive ends, that a revolution is violent is not at all an indicator of its constructiveness. It is entirely possible, and probable, that violent conflict can simply perpetuate the same problems.
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Sep 19, 2015 02:12
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Arguing about whether identity politics is bad for class politics was developed to prevent revolution.
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Sep 19, 2015 02:28
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There's no war but class war ayy lmao
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Sep 19, 2015 02:29
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Disinterested posted:Arguing about whether identity politics is bad for class politics was developed to prevent revolution.
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Sep 19, 2015 02:29
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OP is saying: I'm white I'm white I'm so so white
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Sep 19, 2015 02:32
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Mrit posted:OP is saying: Im loving hispanic you capitalist swine american torturer shitbag piece of frog rear end crap licker.
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Sep 19, 2015 02:41
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Jagchosis posted:There's no war but class war https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7RUeMCZL3Q
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Sep 19, 2015 02:42
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PerpetualSelf posted:Im loving hispanic you capitalist swine american torturer shitbag piece of frog rear end crap licker.  most hispanics are white
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Sep 19, 2015 02:43
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Disinterested posted:Arguing about whether identity politics is bad for class politics was developed to prevent revolution.
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Sep 19, 2015 02:46
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Trabisnikof posted:
White as gently caress here captain the fact that the minute I write something proves my thesis. You judge people base on the color of their skin, instead of their class. It's almost like you want a race war. PerpetualSelf fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Sep 19, 2015 |
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Sep 19, 2015 02:47
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Class is an identity. Disinterested posted:Arguing about whether identity politics is bad for class politics was developed to prevent revolution.
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Sep 19, 2015 02:48
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PerpetualSelf posted:
What on earth do you think you're trying to prove? That looks white as white as I am, which is to say very loving white. Looks like you just got a tan this summer playing beach volleyball with the bros. But to be serious, Disinterested posted:Arguing about whether identity politics is bad for class politics was developed to prevent revolution.
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Sep 19, 2015 02:52
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Trabisnikof posted:What on earth do you think you're trying to prove? That looks white as white as I am, which is to say very loving white. I'm not white. I'm brown. You are the enemy. That is the truth. You eventually must die like all enemies of revolution. Another truth.
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Sep 19, 2015 02:55
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PerpetualSelf posted:I'm not white. I'm brown. Sir, this is a McDonald's drive-thru.
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Sep 19, 2015 02:57
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I think my skin is actually darker than that, weirdly. drat, I can't take a picture of my pasty rear end thumbs uping that image because my monitor overexposes. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Sep 19, 2015 |
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Sep 19, 2015 03:00
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It's not even page two and someone is photographing a square of flesh to win a rhetorical point. It vaguely reminds me of that guy in the LP Sandcastle who posted himself nude for dubious reasons. It's probably not good to remind me of that.
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Sep 19, 2015 03:00
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PerpetualSelf posted:I'm not white. I'm brown. Sure buddy, you keep telling yourself all that. Just don't run for a leadership position in La Raza
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Sep 19, 2015 03:02
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Trabisnikof posted:Sure buddy, you keep telling yourself all that. Why not?
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Sep 19, 2015 03:20
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PerpetualSelf posted:Why not? Because you hate "identity" politics with a passion obviously? I'm sure Rachel Dolezal didn't cross anyone's mind.
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Sep 19, 2015 03:24
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PerpetualSelf posted:Im loving hispanic you capitalist swine american torturer shitbag piece of frog rear end crap licker. white hispanic then, cool
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Sep 19, 2015 03:37
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Gas
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Sep 19, 2015 03:47
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Because all of you have undesirable identities
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Sep 19, 2015 03:48
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not hispanic but i love brujeria and also it's easy to disavow personal identity politics when you're a straight white male EDIT: also lmao at "privilege politics" Your Weird Uncle fucked around with this message at 04:13 on Sep 19, 2015 |
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Sep 19, 2015 04:10
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I feel like identity politics was inevitably an emergent effect based (in the general sense) on the way we function as primates in social groups. And yes, it's a red herring -- the revolution is barred for many reasons that are much more thoroughly embedded than that.
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Sep 19, 2015 04:17
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No, Marxist Orthodoxy was.
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Sep 19, 2015 04:28
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Identity politics predate modern socialism by several thousand years, and so-called "privilege politics" has some roots in the very real discrimination that happened even among various civil rights groups. The most pptent example, particularly since this article was raised by a socialist site, is that the labor rights conflicts back at the beginning of the 20th century were largely white movements which looked down upon black workers and mostly refused to even allow them into unions. The same workers' movements who agitated for eight-hour workdays and the right to organize considered minorities to be inferiors not worthy of those same rights.
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Sep 19, 2015 04:42
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Main Paineframe posted:The same workers' movements who agitated for eight-hour workdays and the right to organize considered minorities to be inferiors not worthy of those same rights. except the IWW, who didn't do that
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Sep 19, 2015 05:55
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Main Paineframe posted:Identity politics predate modern socialism by several thousand years, and so-called "privilege politics" has some roots in the very real discrimination that happened even among various civil rights groups. The most pptent example, particularly since this article was raised by a socialist site, is that the labor rights conflicts back at the beginning of the 20th century were largely white movements which looked down upon black workers and mostly refused to even allow them into unions. The same workers' movements who agitated for eight-hour workdays and the right to organize considered minorities to be inferiors not worthy of those same rights. You should actually read the article instead of guessing at it's content. That example specifically was used.
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Sep 19, 2015 06:09
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Identities are a kind of class.
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Sep 19, 2015 06:11
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Well duh, once you realise the Frankfurt School and everything derived from it is just part of the giant conspiracy to keep Western civilisation destablised for the benefit of banks controlled by International Jewry, everything starts to make sense.
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Sep 19, 2015 06:12
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SlipUp posted:You should actually read the article instead of guessing at it's content. That example specifically was used. That article makes more sense if racism in the labor movement started in the 1960s, but it didn't. The labor movement was doing racist poo poo long before '60s so it being some sort of new development is pretty nonsensical.
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Sep 19, 2015 06:15
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the great in-retrospect blindspots of the Old Left were on sexual liberation, urban malaise, and environmentalism; on those, narratives of class duality (incl. contemporary Marxism) tends not to produce obvious answers. You can spin virtually any position into an alienated-labour-vs-capital narrative. if you want to see the Old Left as-it-actually-existed-in-power-rather-than-as-2015-vintage-Marxism thinking on racial issues, this recent The Atlantic article by Coates is actually pretty good on anticolonialism, antiimperialism, and domestic racism, both the Old and New would be host to a raft of mistakes. There was a failure to appreciate the instability of new countries. The potential for white flight seems to have been serially underestimated. Shared opposition to overt discrimination disguised a latent dispute over whether the goal was integration or inter-ethnic redistribution. There was no consensus over the fate of nascent ethnic-minority leadership and their newfound sovereignty - you can see this in the fiasco that would be desegregation busing as an American phenomenon, for instance, not just in the third world. Really, everyone has egg on their faces here, there were no Cassandric prophets failed only by their followers. ronya fucked around with this message at 07:05 on Sep 19, 2015 |
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Sep 19, 2015 07:02
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Identity politics are an unfortunate necessity and will remain so for as long as the establishment aims to keep certain demographics disproportionately oppressed, which at this rate will likely be Forever. Nobody has any guarantee that the Glorious Worker's Revolution will stop them from being beaten in the streets for being different, and it is a heavy cross to bear to simply endure that kind of discrimination because the coming Marxist Utopia will be nebulously Better. I think there is something to be said for the idea that the capitalist class has propagated and used prejudices for their own ends, but it's ultimately not really something that can be helped short of miraculous time travel.
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Sep 19, 2015 09:53
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Dazzling Addar posted:Identity politics are an unfortunate necessity and will remain so for as long as the establishment aims to keep certain demographics disproportionately oppressed, which at this rate will likely be Forever. Nobody has any guarantee that the Glorious Worker's Revolution will stop them from being beaten in the streets for being different, and it is a heavy cross to bear to simply endure that kind of discrimination because the coming Marxist Utopia will be nebulously Better. I think there is something to be said for the idea that the capitalist class has propagated and used prejudices for their own ends, but it's ultimately not really something that can be helped short of miraculous time travel. Identity politics advocates have an unfortunate tendency to emphasise style over substance. In addition, incessant shouting about ~my own/favourite identity category~'s issues instead of a more general demand to stop making a big deal out of peoples' identity is short sighted and smacks of narcissism.
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Sep 19, 2015 13:36
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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The politics of the white male identity was developed to prevent class revolution
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Sep 19, 2015 13:42
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SlipUp posted:You should actually read the article instead of guessing at it's content. That example specifically was used. Read it more carefully. The article says that that argument was used, but pointed to supposed equality between white and black workers in unions in order to disprove the argument, mostly because the article thinks history started in 1961.
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Sep 19, 2015 13:52
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Social Anarchism or Lifestyle Anarchism: An Unbridgeable Chasm
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Sep 19, 2015 15:22
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Does anyone want to see a square expanse of my flesh, would that be helpful
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Sep 19, 2015 15:28
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"Class revolution" was conceptualized in an environment of white exclusivity, if not outright white supremacy. As such, it was blind to biases that only revealed themselves as more diverse people entered the movement. For a simple analogy, consider the following: if all of your plans are written in English, then no poo poo people are going to have issues when you bring in Spanish speakers.
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Sep 19, 2015 15:30
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