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I stalled out reading One Piece back in 2010, I think. Got about as far as the Foxy fight. Anyway, since it's been awhile, I'm gonna be rereading the series (rather than just picking up where I left off), and hope it's alright to share my second impressions in here (even though I'm way behind).
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Sep 20, 2015 04:43
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| # ¿ May 3, 2024 08:00 |
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Having conversations about why we like or dislike the things we like or dislike is cool. Do this as often as you like. Shutting down conversation by arbitrarily declaring certain opinions as wrong or invalid is less cool. Try to do this less often. Thanks!
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Sep 21, 2015 22:45
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I forgot how badly Sanji gets messed up in his fight with Gin. I always liked the Baratie Arc my first time through but I'm liking it even more on a reread. It's pretty fun to see Oda establishing an obvious formula in the previous arcs only to totally go sideways here.
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Sep 22, 2015 00:21
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Amorphous Blob posted:I'm still holding out that Gin and Kuro will come back in a big way. I've got a real soft spot for early villains. I liked Kuro's weapon. It was stupidly impractical in the best way possible. Like something a kid would come up with on the playground trying to out-imagine his friends' imaginary attacks.
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Sep 22, 2015 00:33
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I'd also say one of Kuro's strengths is that he poses the first real "Serious" threat in the story. Morgan's physically imposing but not much to write home about, Buggy's a buffoon, and people forget Alvida exists. Then Kuro shows up calm and collected with murder on his mind and everyone on his hit list. Also, this is a little thing, but I really liked the weird way he pushed up his glasses. Having a character constantly adjusting their glasses is such a well-worn trait in Japanese comics and animation that it's almost invisible, even when you do it the way Kuro does. Even with the reveal it still just seems like an odd quirk of his until he puts on the gloves and then it all clicks.
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Sep 22, 2015 00:50
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anime was right posted:that was the first moment where you could tell oda put more thought into his characters and their motivations than like, any other shounen author I get what you're saying though. Amongst his immediate peers it isn't even a contest.
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Sep 22, 2015 00:59
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Oda decides to run with a Where Are They Now cover arc for everybody in East Blue and Kuro opens a barber shop. His first customer is that guy with the afro who got stuck in a treasure chest.
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Sep 22, 2015 01:07
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Can't believe I completely forgot about Gin saving Sanji's life. What a guy.
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Sep 22, 2015 01:15
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Luffy marching straight up to Arlong who he's never even seen before and decking him in the face without a word of explanation is the most satisfying thing.
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Sep 22, 2015 07:05
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 I used to say the fights in One Piece didn't do much for me, but for the life of me I can't think why. I mean, I always thought Zoro's were kinda lame and that's still true, but otherwise this has been a pretty sweet trip.
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Sep 22, 2015 08:08
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Took a bit of a break after polishing off East Blue. Now I'm into the Baroque Works. This is several pages late, but to whoever countered my "Zoro's fights are boring" comment with "He has some cool moments, like Whisky Peak," I actually agree. But I also think Whisky Peak illustrates why most Zoro fights don't do it for me (though it's possible that's also my memory playing tricks on me since I also recalled Zoro being a lot more boring than he's been so far). Basically, there are a couple times in East Blue (and at least one instance I remember very distinctly during Baroque Works) where Zoro simply wins by executing a signature move or technique of some kind. I'm not a huge fan of these since often times he just cuts through an opponent he was previously struggling with because I guess Oda decided the fight should be over. I don't get the same energy reading (or remembering) his fights that I do with the other characters, where there's a struggle but ultimately a clear transfer of dominance from one party to the other. By contrast, Usopp's fights are consistently great because he's always matched against super powerful dudes he needs to out-think and out-maneuver. I can't remember any Usopp fights from my initial read where I ever felt like he won arbitrarily due to being a main character. Regardless, Whisky Peak was great and I completely forgot about Luffy and Zoro just completely chumping Mr. 5 and Ms. Valentine like they were an afterthought. I'm glad I decided to revisit this series before moving ahead because there's so many great little moments and jokes and things I completely forgot about between this reading and the last one.
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Sep 25, 2015 21:09
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TheFallenEvincar posted:I like Zoro fights when they're short and samurai-like, like a Kurosawa sort of thing. It's fitting. They should arbitrarily end after a finisher move, it's very samurai movie. Tangentially related, chalk up Zoro and Sanji's hunting competition in Little Garden as another fun thing I totally forgot about. One Piece is so much better than I remember it.
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Sep 26, 2015 05:32
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Finishing up Little Garden, is there ever any kind of basis given for Ms. Goldenweek's color trap power? I'm not super invested in this question having an answer, just mildly curious.
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Sep 26, 2015 20:35
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That's what I figured, and that's fine. I just didn't know if it was gonna end up being a "Thing" like how Kuro's super speed is really just a poor man's version of something some other guy allegedly does later (haven't read that far, I just know there's another, better speedster coming up).
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Sep 26, 2015 20:55
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I like how Mr. 11 is literally just Speedwagon.
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Sep 26, 2015 23:26
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Allarion posted:Also yeah, I just remembered that Luffy practically never knows anyone's backstory when he decides to punch the villain in the face, because he always falls asleep when it's told. If they hurt his friends and his friends need help, that's all that matters.
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Sep 26, 2015 23:40
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Done with Drum Island. Chopper's backstory really hits you where it hurts. Then Luffy hits Wapol where it hurts. Rereading One Piece, I've come to appreciate how well-paced it is. At least so far. Back when I first got into manga I preferred series that were tightly-plotted like FMA or Urasawa's work (...to a point). One Piece I dismissed as "Meandering," but revisiting it I see that's not the case. Or rather, it is the case, but there's a method to it. A flow. Getting more excited to finish the bits I've already read so I can forge ahead into fresh new territory.
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Sep 28, 2015 00:30
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Oh yeah, something else I forgot was Blackbeard getting namedropped early. I always thought of Jaya as his introduction, with neither hide nor hair of him heard of, alluded to, or seen before; then Dalton mentions he destroyed the Drum Kingdom and Ace brings up that he's currently after him. Oda really does plan ahead.
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Sep 28, 2015 05:33
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I also kinda hope Mihawk is just some absurdly strong dude. In a world where most people who matter have superpowers courtesy of whatever macguffin or paper-thin justification is local to the setting, I always think it's cool when there's at least one or two guys who can stand toe-to-toe with these powerhouses just based off the merits of their homegrown strength and skill. Not a bunch of them though, just a couple. I want Zoro and Mihawk to have a fair fight, steel against steel, skill versus skill, with no other factors.
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Sep 29, 2015 17:52
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"I wanna fight! I'm not afraid of dying!" "Then there's no place for you in my army. Every man here is afraid of dying." Powerful scene. Alabasta's a good arc. I also like how Oda turned the convenient windfall of the crew meeting Mr. 2 into a disadvantage since now Crocodile knows about them and that they're coming; likely many of their abilities as well since Mr. 3 probably filled him in on the battle. It's a neat little reversal of fortune revealing previously-thought "Lazy" writing to actually turn out to be "Good" writing. I'm about at the bit where all the fighting starts, I think. Last time I read through this arc, over five years ago, the fights themselves were the low point. Hopefully I feel differently about them now.
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Oct 1, 2015 04:18
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Advice posted:Every fight in that arc without exception is completely fantastic, I have no idea what you are talking about. I dunno, like I said when I started this reread, it's been long enough since I read it last that my complaints are just vague generalities. In refreshing my memory, I'm found that I enjoy this series far more now than I did then, so it's possible that extends to the fights as well.
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Oct 1, 2015 05:25
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Currently in the middle of Alabasta right now so I'm gonna need to ask you to clarify cause so far Vivi seems pretty dope.
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Oct 2, 2015 04:09
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Yeah, I definitely don't think Vivi should've joined the crew, but I didn't think she was a bad character while she was around.
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Oct 2, 2015 04:29
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Done with Alabasta. What a rush. Crocodile was a superb villain. Oda really has a knack for writing boss-tier bad guys who are both eminently hateable yet still engaging. It's been said (I forget by who) that the audience will hate a good villain but love a great one, and Croc definitely qualifies. Arlong was a good villain, Croc is a great one. What sealed the deal for me in particular was his cruel pragmatism. One Piece exists in a cartoony world just this side of actions having serious consequences (at this point in time at least), so Croc's sensible approach to villainy really makes him stand out. I remembered from my previous reading that he trapped the Straw Hats in a cage and threw away the key, but forgot the key he tossed was fake. I remembered the bomb, but forgot it was originally loaded into a cannon everyone was trying to stop; that the time bomb was Plan B. As someone leery of the heroes winning due to the villain's incompetence, Crocodile's calculated antagonism made his defeat that much sweeter. Besides which, Luffy lubricating his fists with his own blood was totally metal. Lots of great emotional moments too. Kohza realizing the truth, getting shot; Luffy saving Vivi, decking Crocodile in the face; Tashigi pointing Luffy in the right direction; Pell's sacrifice (more on this later); rain at last coming to the parched kingdom; Mr. 2 acting as a decoy; and of course, the sign of friendship. Another minor one I liked was the King carrying Luffy out of the tomb. Kid probably never even dreamed he'd be carried around like royalty by actual royalty. His adventures have only begun and he's already come so far. Regarding the fights, it goes without saying I have a better appreciation for them now. For the most part. Luffy's three fights with Crocodile are great, as is Usopp and Chopper's fight with Mr. 4 and Ms. Christmas. Sanji and Mr. 2's fight was also pretty fun, being chiefly played for comedy. Nami's fight though, eh, initially funny but ultimately unsatisfying. Not really that keen on her weather staff gimmick. I never really felt like she needed to get involved in fights in the first place since her worth as a crew member was proven in other ways, though I guess I can appreciate Oda trying to include her. I think it would've been better if she'd relied on her wits though, like Usopp. We know she's smart and capable of out-thinking her opponents, so I really wish Oda had gone that route instead. Zoro's fight was flashy but substanceless, as always. I know Oda tried to couch it as him having a kind of battlefield awakening, but it still reads like he just decides to become stronger and beats an otherwise unbeatable opponent arbitrarily. Oh well, least it was short. Actually all the fights, barring Crocodile's, were short. Short and snappy. I'm good with that. Shifting gears into stuff I didn't care for, I like Robin as a character but I've never been a fan of her power. It's visually interesting, but makes such short work of anything standing in her way - barring Logia-type devil fruit users - that I'm not surprised Oda allegedly finds it hard to write fights around her. In order for any of her fights to hold any tension, she either needs to exclusively go against people like Crocodile whose power renders hers less potent, or she needs to fight in an obviously sub-optimum fashion. The former would be contrived, the latter is unsatisfying. I know she's introduced as a "Villain" at first, gradually being revealed to be more, and doesn't actually engage in much direct combat this arc, but still. Also, not a fan of Pell surviving. I'm generally okay with Oda's hesitancy to kill off named characters for a variety of reasons I could list off, but here it just defuses so many things the Alabasta arc had going for it.
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Oct 3, 2015 19:39
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Prison Warden posted:There's an argument to be made that Pell's willingness to sacrifice himself is what is actually important, and wether or not he died is irrelevant. One Piece isn't really the kid of story where character's just die either (shut up). Not to mention you had those four royal guards who essentially killed themselves to try and get a swipe at Crocodile, all of whom pass without much fuss. I recognize they're not on the same level as a named character like Pell, but it makes Pell's survival feel even more artificial by contrast. Prison Warden posted:I think, since this is a shounen battle manga that's just kind of par for the course. I think the Clima Tact really comes into it's own in a later fight Nami gets, but yeah she doesn't really NEED to have a one on one battle, I think she works best as being able to handle herself against chumpos and generally just taking care of other poo poo. Prison Warden posted:I can't hate Zoro's fight here because I think Zoro throws a house at Mr 1 at some point?
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Oct 3, 2015 20:22
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Yeah, now that I think about it. What was up with Crocodile's poison? Was it just a numbing agent? I sure didn't see Luffy chug an antidote. Not a big deal though I suppose. Actually it'd be kinda funny in a grim sort of way if Luffy simply bled out all the poison.
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Oct 3, 2015 20:25
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Captain Invictus posted:I really like your impressions and rundowns of stuff you've read, but if you're still going in blind and haven't been spoiled on a lot of later stuff, I really wish you'd not read this thread entirely except to make your impression posts. :x That said, I mostly just skim read this thread to make sure everybody's playing nice, so I'm not too worried about reading stuff accidentally. My point is even if I do, it doesn't phase me or lessen my enjoyment of the work. TriffTshngo posted:The thing with Nami's fights is that, the few times she's gotten to fight someone one-on-one rather than just clearing out hordes of mooks with localized lightning storms, it's someone who's agile and clever enough to avoid her basic moves (though usually they'll still go down if they get hit by them), so she DOES have to get creative with the clima-tact. It's clunky against Ms. Doublefinger because she has no idea how to use it yet, but when she gets comfortable with using it it's a lot less fiddling with the functions and more implementing them in the right ways. In the meantime, I'm excited to meet Blackbeard again. Even back when I wasn't so hot on One Piece I still liked Blackbeard enough to include him on the shortlist for my favorite manga villains.
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Oct 3, 2015 21:34
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I've heard he's a chainsmoker. Dunno if it's true.
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Oct 4, 2015 08:26
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So Jaya turned out to be a neat little arc. It accomplishes a surprising amount considering how short it is, and sets up a lot of dominoes to knock down later. Despite taking place on a smaller, more compact stage than Alabasta, it avoids feeling small by including larger events. Luffy and friends just saved a country; now we get to see how that ripples through the world. Mock Town provides a fun parallel to Logue Town, both port cities not so much concerned with being the center of events as much as way stations for travelers to make a pit stop. Logue Town of course was under the protection of the Marines, the site of Gold Roger's execution, while Mock Town is a safe haven for pirates. The two bookend the Baroque Works Saga quite nicely. We meet Bellamy here, Bellamy the Hyena, and he's a punk through and through. I think it's great that while obviously the locals tremble in fear of him, at no point does the actual story treat him like he's anything to write home about. I don't believe Oda ever intended the bounties in One Piece to function as power levels by proxy, but they play a similar role at least in letting us get a feel for who the bigger fish are. Crocodile had a (former) bounty of 81 million and was a Warlord of the Sea; this guy's only 50-something million, psh, who cares who he is or what he thinks about anything. Obviously, in-universe, others have reason to fear him, but we the readers know he's just a loud punk. Luffy and Zoro know it too. Actually, Luffy's behavior in general during this arc could be seen as him emulating his childhood hero Shanks. A lot of the same story beats present in the prologue are present again here. Fittingly enough, when it does come down to trading blows, Luffy knocks out Bellamy in a single shot (I love it when stories do this). Oh yeah, I guess we also meet this guy.  Blackbeard is, in my opinion, the greatest shounen antagonist currently in publication, and still ranks highly next to his villainous forefathers whose glory days are no longer serialized. I don't even know where to begin with this guy. On a superficial level, there's the fact that Oda decided to make him fat, ugly, and unhygienic in stark contrast to the usual shounen stereotype of the final boss being either beautiful and graceful or at least stately and commanding. On a more meaningful level,  he's a dark mirror to Luffy, an alternative rather than an antithesis. An easy trick to writing villains is simply to make them represent the opposite of whatever the hero stands for. Does the hero believe in power of friendship? The villain sees all his underlings as disposable pawns. Is the hero a hard worker? The villain's a cheat, or was born into power and privilege. One of the more common pairings is to have an existentialist hero matched against a nihilistic villain (if you want an example, see most Final Fantasy games). Anyway, none of that matter her because Blackbeard's a level beyond that. His convictions are the same as Luffy's. He's a man who believes in dreams. What he lacks that Luffy has is basic human goodness. Put another way, he's what Luffy could easily become if he lost his moral compass. That makes him interesting. It's also an interesting reminder of what pirates represent to most people who aren't blinded by the romanticism of high adventure. Thus far in the story there have been far more "Evil" pirates than "Good" pirates. Luffy's an anomaly, not the norm. In between all of this we get to hang with Cricket and his not-ape buddies. Cricket's a real cool character, and I'm not just saying that because I like grumpy old guys. Beneath One Piece's cartoony, feelgood, cotton candy exterior, there's a certain vein of painful truth. In a lot of ways it's quite similar to Hunter x Hunter in this regard, though Togashi's efforts are a bit more on the nose. Anyway, Cricket's an old man with a troubled history who actually acts and behaves like an old man with a troubled history, and that's pretty cool in a medium where a lot of adult characters often jut come off like "Older" teenagers. He's a gruff ol' coot with a no-nonsense attitude and a ton of emotional baggage. Even so, he still dreams. When Bellamy tries to crush those dreams, of course Luffy would avenge him. Luffy's warned if he takes too long, their log pose will reset and they'll lose any chance to go into the sky. Doesn't matter. Keeping a friends' dream alive is more important than even a fabled floating island. Anyway, yeah, sorry if I wrote too much there, Jaya's just something I only ever remembered from my first read in the vaguest sense, so revisiting it proved to be quite the impactful experience. Next up whenever I get around to reading it: Skypiea. Don't actually recall having too much of a positive impression of this one the first time around, so I'll be especially interested to see how my opinion's changed (assuming it's changes).
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Oct 7, 2015 23:41
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It's actually been long enough that I don't even remember what any of my particular problems with Skypiea were, just that I recall generally disliking it. For anybody following either of the Jojo threads though, I first read Skypiea around the same time I read Part 4, and I disliked Part 4 back then too so I'm not inclined to take my past opinions on One Piece all that seriously as I forge ahead into the future.
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Oct 8, 2015 00:44
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I enjoy how Doc Q is pretty much perpetually at death's door. His horse, too.
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Oct 8, 2015 03:34
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Decided to go ahead and start reading Skypiea. Currently in the middle of it, but a couple of my old complaints are bubbling to the surface. I do like it more now than I did then, but still.
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Oct 8, 2015 08:09
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There are a lot of reasons Blackbeard as the final boss makes sense, but here's one that only occurred to me thanks to the reread. In the second chapter of One Piece we're introduced to am awkward, timid boy named Coby. Coby's a wimp and a nerd and acting cabin boy (against his will) for Alvida, but he doesn't want to be. He wants to be a marine! You know, one of the good guys! He wants to protect the peace and preserve order and serve justice. Luffy takes a liking to Coby and tries to help him out, even though their dreams are mutually exclusive. Sure, Coby being a marine and Luffy being a pirate may cause some strife down the road, but Luffy's fine with that. If Coby wants to be a marine, why should Luffy stand in his way? You get the sense that even if, someday, circumstances should force Luffy and Coby to meet as enemies, they'd still do so with smiles on their faces. Then we meet Captain Morgan, an arrogant and entirely self-serving marine officer who rules over his outpost and the neighboring town like a tyrant. Luffy beats the tar out of him, not for his crimes against his underlings or mistreatment of the townsfolk, but for "Ruining Coby's dream." Coby thought that a marine was a wonderful thing to be, until this jackass showed up and sullied his inner image of what a marine should be. Fortunately, with Morgan defeated, Coby's dream survives intact. There are men like Bellamy who deny others' dreams. They're not worth messing with. There are men like Akainu who oppose others' dreams. Well that's fine. They're a natural result of the way the world works. Some dreams are mutually exclusive, with no recourse but to butt heads. We'll cross those bridges when we come to them. But then there are men like Morgan who destroy others' dreams. These men above all others are twisted and evil. Blackbeard is to Luffy was Morgan was to Coby. He's a pirate who betrayed what it means to be a pirate. He's a pirate who threatened to tear down Luffy's inner image of what a pirate should be.
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Oct 8, 2015 19:26
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To amend a post I made earlier, I googled Akainu and realized the person I was thinking of was Sengoku. That's what I get for speculating about stuff I only know through cultural osmosis. Back to reading.
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Oct 9, 2015 04:14
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Space-Bird posted:It's pretty interesting that most one piece fans have such a dislike for naruto and bleach. To be honest I never cared much for naruto and bleach either. Maybe it's because one piece often gets lumped in with them due to genre? Not saying that's how it is for everybody, but I've seen enough individual people do this to notice a trend.
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Oct 11, 2015 23:36
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Ichigo being everything is by far the stupidest plot twist in Bleach, and let's be real here: it has a lot of competition.
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Oct 12, 2015 18:51
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Initially Ichigo's presented as a sort of beleaguered and snarky but ultimately dependable guy to have around. He might complain about having to book it halfway across town to save somebody, sure, but he'll always be there when the chips are down. It works well enough for the first couple volumes and makes for some amusing character interactions between him and the more serious-minded, duty-bound Rukia who's forced to rely on him. Ichigo never really had a direction he was heading in, he just did his part to help folks out. Not really enough to sustain a long-runner, but it was well-suited to early Bleach's episodic approach to storytelling (with more than a few hooks hinting that something was coming to shake up his life). The problem is the longer Bleach has gone on, the more Ichigo's personality has simply drained away. These days he's pretty much a blank slate like Nighthand said, arbitrarily the hero and the only person anybody can count on to do anything. Except it's not arbitrary actually because he's secretly the product of a forbidden union between blah blah who cares. His "Goals" are still fundamentally the same as when the series started, meaning his only real purpose in the story is to resolve other people's conflicts without really having one of his own. At least, that was the case up until I dropped it. Might be different now, but I doubt it.
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Oct 12, 2015 20:15
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Ichigo's dad turning out to be a shinigami was also dumb. Grand Fisher was the only interesting villain in the series and the only bad guy with a personal connection to Ichigo and Kubo just wastes him in one panel.
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Oct 12, 2015 21:28
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The nakama thing is also dumb because One Piece uses clear visual language to convey how the characters feel about one another. When Nami stumbles in the village in tears because Arlong just dashed her hopes of saving everyone and Luffy puts his hat, his most treasured material possession in the entire world, on her head and asks her if she wants him to make everything better without even knowing the full extent of her problems and she says "Yes" and trusts him to do so, I don't need some weird exotic word to tell me they're friends on a deeper level than most people.
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Oct 15, 2015 04:09
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| # ¿ May 3, 2024 08:00 |
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Gonna be honest here and say I don't think devil fruits ever need to be explained and I kinda hope Oda doesn't try.
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Oct 18, 2015 21:20
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