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P-Mack
Nov 10, 2007

I was reading a paper about Hui (Chinese Muslim) ceremonies, and it mentioned a ceremony where they recite the entire Qur'an- by having 30 people each read a different chapter simultaneously and getting it done in half an hour. Is that commonly done in other parts of the world? Sounds pretty chill.

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P-Mack
Nov 10, 2007

Tendai posted:


Of course it's possible, in the same way that being a "liberal Christian" or a "liberal Jew" is possible. I'm not sure why there's the disconnect where people can't realize that about Islam in particular from what I've seen. You're not either total-balls-to-the-wall-conservative Muslim or nothing, the range runs pretty far in every possible direction in terms of thoughts on human rights, politics and other subjects.


Only vaguely related, but the way the media reports on Islam rubs me the wrong way a lot of the time. They'll say things like, "Many Catholics oppose abortion," or "Jews have traditionally been required to avoid shellfish," or "The belief in reincarnation is widespread in Hindu areas," with standard journalistic weasel words. But with Islam it's "Islamic law requires women to wear headscarves," or"portraying Muhammad is blasphemous according to Islam," these very flat declarations portraying a monolithic belief system. This helps create a perception that a "moderate" Muslim is a Muslim who doesn't Muslim as hard as real rule-following Muslims do, as opposed to someone embracing and fully practicing a different but valid interpretation of Islam. It's not just right wing thing. Liberal outlets opposing, say, headscarf bans will operate from the same premise that these things are absolutely the hard and fast Rules of Islam, and differ only in how they feel about accommodating those Rules.

This is all the perspective of a non-Muslim of course, but that's the impression I get.

P-Mack
Nov 10, 2007

Is "musselman" offensive or just ridiculously archaic? (I'm still ordering the musselman curry from the Thai place near me either way.)

P-Mack
Nov 10, 2007

Are you supposed to do the shortest great circle route. i.e. due north if you're in Alaska?

P-Mack
Nov 10, 2007

goose fleet posted:

With regards to the rule of not letting non-Muslims enter Mecca and Medina, how is one's status as a Muslim determined by the Saudi authorities there?

In particular, if I can piggyback, you mentioned earlier that Alawites have some not exactly usual beliefs. Are they banned from Mecca or otherwise legally discriminated against like, say, Ahmadiyyas are?
Or do they still basically fit in the big tent?

P-Mack
Nov 10, 2007

Tendai posted:

I think it has to start at that level. I mean, it shouldn't be "I think this guy might have DANGEROUS THOUGHTS" but if someone is making credible threats like "I'm going to go shoot up some poo poo" or even "those people who shot up some poo poo had the right idea," things get a little more intense.

I don't think this is anything American Muslims haven't already been doing. I've heard a few stories of an imam calling the cops about a suspiciously militant newcomer, only to eventually find out the guy in question was an undercover FBI agent.

P-Mack
Nov 10, 2007

Any recommendations for a write up on pre-Islamic Arabian religion and its possible influences on Islam? I imagine there's a lot of "Nothing happened before the seventh century" from Islamic fundamentalists and "Moon god???" From Christian fundamentalists so I'd like to find something dry and scholarly.

P-Mack
Nov 10, 2007

Fuzz posted:

How old do you think most European girls were when they were having kids in the Middle Ages, a full 500 years later?

Guess what, around 12-15. As soon as a girl hit puberty, she was fair game and her parents would sell her off like expensive cattle. That was practically universal in how it cropped up in so many different cultures. 18 being considered an 'adult' is a super modern concept... Barely 150 years old, on a global scale. But hey, white people can do no wrong, amirite? When OTHER people do it it's filthy and barbaric, let's just say it like it is.

tl:dr: Selectively bashing a culture you clearly know little about does you no good when what you're bashing wasn't even very unique to that culture.

Like I agree with the sentiment here, but I think most recent scholarship on the middle ages has actually been pointing towards a much older typical marriage age, with marriages under 16, while legal and not necessarily remarkable, being distinctly in the minority. Even in those cases first children are very rarely seen until late teens.at the earliest. (I suspect even if Aisha's actual age at time of marriage was unusually young, the marriage probably would have conformed to this pattern of deferring consummation and children until weird but not super-creepy by modern standards.)

Let's not fight dumb misconceptions about Islam with dumb misconceptions about medieval history.

P-Mack
Nov 10, 2007

waitwhatno posted:

Would it be just as liberal and unreligious as a Christian country?

Check out Albania, which is literally European, if you're not just trolling.

P-Mack
Nov 10, 2007

waitwhatno posted:

Albania is an impoverished shithole and very far away from being a developed country. Not sure what you are getting at.


Mostly that the role of religion there isn't all that different from its Christian neighbors, and that there's nothing inherent to Islam that should make us assume otherwise. Similarly, Christians in the least developed parts of Africa probably have more in common with their Muslim neighbors than they do with the Church of Sweden. Religion never exists in a vacuum isolated from geography and culture.

This theoretical fully developed first world Muslim nation will look one way if it were in Europe, another if it were in East Asia, another in the Middle East, just like actual Muslim countries do right now.

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P-Mack
Nov 10, 2007

Booty was invented well before the seventh century.

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