|
Tendai posted:tarted getting deeper and deeper into it. I'm now 32 so it's been about 16 years and as with most things in life, my faith has evolved and changed. I've been reading the Quran and hadith for several years on and off and have been trying to learn more about Islam. Is being a "liberal muslim" even possible? What is your opinion on the penalty of Apostaste? I assume you may not agree with it. Not challenging you, just curious on your view of this topic.
|
#
¿
Oct 2, 2015 23:43
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 17, 2024 16:03 |
|
|
Mr Enderby posted:"There's too much sectarianism, and religious fundamentalism, and uncritical reading of ancient texts outside their historical context, and immoderate language, and anti-semitism in Islam today. Do you know who would sort this out? Martin Luther!" I've taken 2 Uni courses in Islam (a long time ago)and I read Infidel by Hirsi Ali 2 years ago. With the mention of Martin Luther and reformation in this thread, isn't it not possible to have a reformation in Islam as the Quran is considered to be the direct word of god? Wouldn't suras and passages have to be removed or edited in a reformation? Who would be qualified. It does not seem likely. Positive Optimyst fucked around with this message at 10:09 on Nov 25, 2015 |
|
#
¿
Nov 25, 2015 10:07
|
|
|
Amun Khonsu posted:I will be direct, on this issue. There is no antisemitism in the Islamic faith. Arabs are themselves "semites" and through Abraham blood related to Hebrews (from which Jews come from). (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/semite) Amun, You have misunderstood the post of mine you quoted. I did not post anything about "Anti-semitism, nor did I post about Jews or Arabs. Please re-read my post - my post that you have quoted above.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 25, 2015 16:17
|
|
|
Tendai posted:My theory -- and admittedly, the sort of reformation that I and many other progressive/moderate/whatevers are quietly pushing for -- is that reformation will come in the sense of a movement away from Qur'anic literalism and the idea that we must literally do what Muhammad did in his time. In Islamic theology the Quran is considered the direct word of god. Correct? Therefore, this will not happen, quote:It's more a reformation in thinking than in the actual content of the religious texts. I'm not sure how this will ever happen. It will never happen. quote:Questions like "how do you convince someone to read 'cut off the hand of a thief' as being not literal but metaphorical to show that crimes should be punished" and "how do you convince someone that the Sunnah should be viewed not as binding dogma but as lessons that were often specific to the time and place, and thus not always relevant to current times" are the million dollar questions in progressive Islam. Then, there is no solution. I've talked with several muslims over the years.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 25, 2015 16:21
|
|
|
Fuzz posted:Something that hasn't really been touched upon in this thread and is such a huge and massive component to the current misunderstanding of Islam is the whole darkie factor. If the Quran had been revealed to some white guy, we'd be having very different opinions and discussions about the religion, but because it's some "heathen darkie religion" let's not take it seriously or even give it any thought before casting wide assumptions and aspersions about both it and its followers. How do we know that Mohammed was a "darkie?" No one knows what color or shade of color he was. Same for Jesus. Correct me if I'm wrong.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 26, 2015 15:16
|
|
|
Interesting and informative thread, Tendai. I've been learning more and reading up on some of the concepts you've noted. One thing I've been looking are the terms "moderate," and "radical / extremist." I had suspected that these terms were created by the (mostly secular) West and do not come from muslims nor the Islamic world. (I found a good article on this.) So my question to you or anyone: do muslims in the islamic world use these terms (in their own languages or Arabic for example)? The terms "moderate" or "radical" or "extremist."
|
|
#
¿
Dec 10, 2015 02:16
|
|
|
Fuzz posted:A lot of Sharia law, however, is steeped in pre-Islamic Arab custom, which is why so much of it has no basis in the Quran. But a lot of Sharia law is based on the Sahih Hadith, correct? I'd be interested in more information on this topic.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 24, 2015 00:13
|
|
|
Amun Khonsu posted:My son was born into Islam. No child is born a Protestant, a Catholic, or a Muslim, for example. The parents automatically label the newborn (in some countries it's on ID cards) and then they soon indoctrinate their son or daughter in the religion (ideology). I think parents should let their children grow up to be adults, and then make there own decision about what, if any, religion they choose.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 28, 2015 06:55
|
|
|
Zakmonster posted:
Whatever gave you this idea? There is an old saying: "The Truth is what you belive."
|
|
#
¿
Dec 28, 2015 07:25
|
|
|
Svartvit posted:Depends on who you ask but a Sunni will probably say that al-Aqsa is one of the three most holy places. There's no godly sanctioned ranking tas far as I know but if someone in here knows about it let me know? Yes. The al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem is #3, so we read. I went there in the early 90s. I dabble into relgion on and off and I just purchased two books that I'll start reading tonight: "The Complete Infidel's Guide to the Koran" by Robert Spencer, and "The story of Mohammed Islam unveiled" by by Harry Richardson. I've read about Islam before and watched speakers. I've talk with muslims and non-muslims who were / are into Islam (and/or religion). When looking for books I was not looking for something that was "too scholarly" in writing style nor something that was on the "positive" side towards Mohammed or Islam. I'll read this books for starters and then look for other more nuetral works (although I don't know if these books are what you would critiques), as I haven't read them yet. Robert Spencer is very critical of the Quran and Islam, however. So, a question to members: with so many book on Islam, does anyone have a recommendation of a book that is as "neutral" as possible (if this is, possible)?
|
|
#
¿
Jul 6, 2016 10:55
|
|
|
Florida Betty posted:You do realize that Robert Spencer is the founder of two organizations that are considered by the Anti-Defamation League and Southern Poverty Law Center to be hate groups? He's literally banned from entering the UK because of his hate speech. It's a bizarre place to start if you're looking for neutrality; it's like reading David Duke to get an understanding of black history. I do not know much about Robert Spencer. As I stated, I was looking for someone critiquing Islam. I've read the Quran and hadith before, and took 2 university classes, and read other books on Islam / xtianity / judaism (although I've forgotten the titles because if was years ago). I am reading his book and the other one I noted above now. I will look into Svartvit and John Esposito also. I read wiki and another site on Spencer after you mentioned the ADL and SPL: his focus is on Islam. I don't see any "hate" in that. Edit in: I just read the several reviews of John Esposito's book on Islam. The problem with him is that he too "pro" islam or "supporting," if you want to use those terms. He's also been funded by an islamic organization. For the next book I'm looking for something as neutral as possible. Positive Optimyst fucked around with this message at 10:16 on Jul 8, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Jul 8, 2016 09:36
|
|
|
Svartvit posted:There is no such thing as a neutral account of Islam. It is a widespread religion with over a billion followers. Do you want to know about the history/practice/theology/variants of Islam, then read a respected scholar like the one mentioned. If you want to read about how Muslims can't understand democracy or whatever keep reading your books. Which scholar mentioned? Certainly, not Esposito. He's been exposed as being funded by islamist organizations and omitting many negative things muslims do. Which scholar are you referring to?
|
|
#
¿
Jul 8, 2016 17:37
|
|
|
Black Bones posted:Here's a "scholar" more in line with what you seek https://www.politicalislam.com/author/ Thank you Black Bones. I read the caption. Although a general outline, I see it more his way, than those who are "positive" towards the ideology. I'll try to find more from him. And also, thanks to the others for you info. (I'm still reading my 2 books at the moment that I noted above.)
|
|
#
¿
Jul 11, 2016 09:14
|
|
|
Svartvit posted:Bill Warner is not a scholar of Islam, he's a math PhD. You might as well just read Freep and absorb the same knowledge. In fact, I think you probably should. I read his bio. He's a math PhD. I have never read "freep" but I believe it's a political group / or viewpoint. I am not "right wing," if that's what they are. I'm not interested in the American political spectrum, just trying to learn more about Islam, the hadith, Quran, and such.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 12, 2016 10:26
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 17, 2024 16:03 |
|
|
Fizzil posted:The second problem is the lack of a civil society, there is no support for LGBT people in the middle east because of the lack of infrastructure and environment thats conducive for that. I'm a straight guy, I don't understand what you mean by "infrastructure." As for "environment," not there is not an environment in a muslim country that is conducive to gays. This is another thing Western European politicians and bureaucrats don't understand about islam and the culture of islamic countries. I read an article about prospective immigrants to Belgium taking a "Belgium culture class" (if you want to call it that) and showing these prospective immigrants photos gay women and men couples holding hands saying, "if you immigrate here you will have to accept this." IMO, most will not accept it. Unlike a christian, a muslim cannot get up in the morning and change their view about these matters. The quran is above all.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 26, 2016 22:42
|
|