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Khizan
Jul 30, 2013


counterfeitsaint posted:

I don't think it's unreasonable to say the concept of theocracy is far, far more widespread in the Muslim world than anywhere else.

I think the big difference is other religions just don't say that they want a theocracy. I mean, there's a significant percentage of the American right wing whose campaign platform is pretty much "we should legislate by biblical principles."

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Khizan
Jul 30, 2013


Two halal questions:

1) I've always been under the impression that, generally speaking, anything which is kosher is also going to be halal, because the slaughtering mechanics are the same(slit throat and bleed) and because Jews are People of the Book so they can slaughter halal meat. Is that actually the case?

2) What's entailed in keeping a halal kitchen? For example, a strict kosher kitchen basically needs to keep two sets of everything because they can't ever cross the meat and dairy streams. Does keeping a halal kitchen have any requirements along those lines?

Khizan
Jul 30, 2013


How do you judge that? Speed of recitation? Best delivery? Accuracy?

Khizan
Jul 30, 2013


Bolocko posted:

The view is that God's purpose for sex is procreation, and so couples should conduct themselves in due reverence to that purpose (by refraining from birth control, male ejaculate delivered vaginally, etc), but not all sex needs to be procreative

So basically you're saying that all sex needs to include the possibility of having children or it's sinful but you don't get retroactive sinning points if it doesn't take? I mean, doesn't this boil down to "The dude should only orgasm if you're willing to have another child?"

Khizan
Jul 30, 2013


A lot of it is the fact that if you go by modern American standards, most of the Muslim-majority nations I can think of off the top of my head are basically human rights hellholes. It can be hard to buy that those things are meant to be taken metaphorically when Muslim nations are famous for things like "murdering apostates" and "forcing women into arranged marriages" and people in this very thread are talking about their friends getting jail time for drinking wine.

Khizan
Jul 30, 2013


Zakmonster posted:

Also, God is always merciful. So long as you are sincere in your repentance, God will forgive. There's no 'maybe' about it.

To me, it's always seemed like there would be a point where there's a certain innate lack of sincerity in the repentence.

I mean, doesn't there come a point where God is like "Dude, you've hosed your boyfriend three times a week for the past year, I'm starting to think you're not really serious about this whole 'sorry for loving a dude I won't do it again' stuff."

Or if it is possible to sincerely repent it, doesn't mean it's all sort of pointless? If he'll forgive Steve and Robert loving 3 times a week every week until their dicks stop working, doesn't that mean the only point of his prohibition is that he wants them to feel bad about doing it?

Khizan
Jul 30, 2013


I can buy that Islam was a social justice movement at the time of its creation. That Islam is currently a social justice movement... that's a much harder sell.

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Khizan
Jul 30, 2013


Lassitude posted:

A lot of this is in response to the assertion that Amun Khonsu made, claiming Islam is a social justice movement. Social justice skews toward egalitarianism. A religion which explicitly limits the rights of certain groups of people cannot possibly be considered a social justice movement unless "social justice" means "whatever my religion arbitrarily says is appropriate".

This is my thing.

Tell me that Islam was a social justice movement at the time of its inception? Okay. Yes. I can see that. Tell me that Islam treats women no worse than Christianity? Okay. Yes. I can see that too. I could even go along with "slightly better than Christianity", for that matter.

That Islam is, here and now, a social justice movement? It is a much harder claim to make, and I've seen no evidence of it.

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