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thrakkorzog posted:So how does Taqiya work? It has come up on the campaign trail. I'm not Muslim but I do work on medieval politics and religion, so I have some familiarity with the origins of this idea: Taqqiya isn't about denouncing one's faith as a Muslim to non-Muslims. The idea is that you are permitted to conceal your confession as a Sunni or Shii if you are about to get shanked for it by a Shii or a Sunni, respectively. Taqqiya was developed by early Islamic legal scholars in the very particular historical context of the early Sunnis persecuting Shiites (in the seventh and eighth centuries, being a Sunni vs a Shiite was basically just a matter of political allegiances rather than doctrinal differences, which emerged later). If a mob came up to you and asked whether you were Shii, it's okay to tell them that you're Sunni, and vice versa. It is, however, more meritorious if you choose the path of honesty and get shanked for it. Taqqiya is an intra-religious matter; it wasn't created to address the situation of Muslims in non-Muslim societies. Of course, you can extend the line of logic underpinning the idea to apply to that latter context, but that's not what it was for, and it certainly does not promote deception for some benefit (other than staying alive). In any case, there's nothing unique about this "doctrine." Christian and Jewish legal traditions have historically also allowed for this sort of thing, though, again, like in Islam, it is most meritorious to be honest and get martyred. I find it fascinating that this has become such a topic of interest--a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing and all of that. Vordulak fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Sep 24, 2015 |
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Sep 24, 2015 01:19
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waitwhatno posted:What's the view of Christianity and Jews in Islam? Why do Jews get preferential treatment, but Christians don't? There are two ways to address these questions. One is to draw upon Quranic scripture in order to demonstrate that, theologically, both Jews and Christians are "people of the book," like Muslims, and therefore are a protected class in Islam. Tendai has already done this, so I will only add that, much like the New Testament is not meant to overturn the Hebrew Bible but supplement/revise it, the Quran does the same with regard to the New and Old Testaments--anything which the Quran does not explicitly change of the old scriptures technically should still apply. Of course, human interpretation of scripture is a necessary intermediary, and that's where you start getting problems, but now I'm digressing. Think of it this way: from the perspective of Islam, Judaism is God 1.0; Christianity is God 2.0; and Islam is God 3.0 Anything which was not updated isn't necessarily 'wrong,' just an older divine or divinely inspired revelation that may or may not apply (but probably does). To your second question, there is no particular reason why Jews would receive preferential treatment on a theological/scriptural basis, other than some general structural similarities between Judaism and Islam.** However, there are *historical* reasons why Middle-Eastern Muslims have gotten along better with Middle-Eastern Jews (until 1948). The primary reason is that there quite simply were no Jewish geo-political entities (except maybe/sorta the Khazars for a while) from the advent of Islam until the modern nation-state of Israel. As a result, there never were any general anxieties about Jews as a potential fifth column. In contrast, the dar al-Islam (lands of Islam) has always been confronted by major Christian polities on its western front: from the Roman Empire/Byzantium to the Mediterranean Christian maritime powers and, in the modern era, the European colonial empires. Most such confrontation was just detente, but you see the emergence of a discourse of hostility as a natural function of this ongoing state of affairs. And then there are also things like the crusades, which, in their retrospective reimaginings of the phenomenon, Muslims and Christians have cited as reasons not to like one another. Jews have historically not participated in these geo-political processes and so, naturally, there's been relatively good relations in the MIddle East between Jews and Muslims. That, and apparently both medieval Jews and Muslims thought that Christians not circumcising infants was the grossest thing ever. You might be surprised as to how often circumcision comes up in medieval Jewish and Muslim polemics against Christians, "the uncircumcised ones." ** Interestingly enough, Patricia Crone and her doctoral adviser (Cook?) wrote in the 1970s a book in which they argued that Islam, like Christianity, began as a Jewish reform movement. However, the rejection of the reform splintered the Jewish community of the Hijaz, with the adherents of the reform movement (the early Muslim community) being re-imagined as never having been Jewish in the surviving texts from the period--if I correctly recall the argument of the book. Few have ever accepted the argument, however, as it involves arguing wholescale into a void of the earliest recensions of the Quran and other documentary evidence. But I do think the argument is exemplary of some of the basic similarities between Judaism and Islam; they are far more similar to one another than to Christianity, in my opinion. Vordulak fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Sep 25, 2015 |
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Sep 25, 2015 23:52
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Mathematics posted:[Edit] Never mind, sorry. I need to be a little bit careful about what I say on the internet regarding this topic due to my geographical situation. Well now this sounds interesting.
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Sep 26, 2015 16:33
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Every Islam thread has to have at least one troll. Welcome!
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Sep 26, 2015 18:10
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