Toxxupation posted:

this episode was really, really, really, really, almost bizarrely bad


like I'm not even mad or upset or angry, just stunned by how slipshod and poor the storytelling and narrative leaps this episode took were

it was honestly like stumbling into a totally different, distinctly worse television show after a sort of unimpressive but still fun season that was season 3 of B99 up to this point. just, like...wow

Toxxupation posted:

this episode was really, really, really, really, almost bizarrely bad


like I'm not even mad or upset or angry, just stunned by how slipshod and poor the storytelling and narrative leaps this episode took were

it was honestly like stumbling into a totally different, distinctly worse television show after a sort of unimpressive but still fun season that was season 3 of B99 up to this point. just, like...wow

Toxxupation posted:

this episode was really, really, really, really, almost bizarrely bad


like I'm not even mad or upset or angry, just stunned by how slipshod and poor the storytelling and narrative leaps this episode took were

it was honestly like stumbling into a totally different, distinctly worse television show after a sort of unimpressive but still fun season that was season 3 of B99 up to this point. just, like...wow

TommyGun85 posted:

mind telling us why?

Toxxupation posted:

this episode was really, really, really, really, almost bizarrely bad


like I'm not even mad or upset or angry, just stunned by how slipshod and poor the storytelling and narrative leaps this episode took were

it was honestly like stumbling into a totally different, distinctly worse television show after a sort of unimpressive but still fun season that was season 3 of B99 up to this point. just, like...wow

TommyGun85 posted:

mind telling us why?

Toxxupation posted:

yeah sure

B99's actual police procedural work is hit-or-miss at best, simply because it's a character driven sitcom. the mysteries are never really that interesting and the resolutions are pretty textbook, so unless they get a really good character actor to play a bit role (Craig Robinson, James Urbaniak) it's sort of nothing, just a loose excuse to have everyone riff on each other. which, you know, is fine. i don't expect nor really want B99 to have involved or interesting episodic plots

the problem stems from how this episode was very clearly written backwards, wanting a way to bring Holt back to the nine-nine and structuring the entire episode around accomplishing that task. even for the normally low bar that the cases of the week have, the oolong slayer stuff was especially dull, with a "going through the motions" air because the episode wasn't particularly invested in its own stakes. it came across as a supremely disinteresting waste of time, which is super damning when that's your A-plot. it wasn't very humorous, hit mostly the same character beats the season and show as a whole always hits - Jake is impetuous and ignores orders, Holt is professionally unfulfilled and frustrated - with very little to save it. Wunch and Gina, especially the latter because she's always incredible, were the only real positives of the A-plot

which, you know, whatever. it was a boring A-plot due in large part to being a case of the week, on a show that never really has "great" cases of the week. which would be ignorable at worst until it's viewed in the context of being an episode built specifically to bring Holt back

Holt's departure last season was this momentous event, literally a season-ender. bringing him back was an idea i felt was fundamentally ill-advised, but the speed and specific way in which they did it was just flat-out horrid. firstly, i felt separating Holt and Gina out to PR was an overall good move for the show, both because the Holt/Gina subplots have given both characters more to do (and the cops still back at the 99 more space to breathe) and have changed the show's dynamic to pay dividends

last week's strangely topical Holt/Gina/Amy subplot was both a welcome dose of reality to a usually cartoonish program and a good story end-to-end. the story before that dealing with the whole mascot thing was great too. putting Holt into a PR position introduced new challenges and frustrations the character had to encounter and the fact that he was in such direct contact with Wunch (over her just visiting every once in a while like she did when he was in charge of the 99) was really fascinating. it also helped out the 99 characters, since Holt and Gina are such dominant personalities that they overtake the show when they're onscreen; separating them out from everyone else allows for characters like Rosa/Amy to shine more easily. the interactions the group had with the vulture were really interesting too, and having to work around or through a boss they hated, who was actively trying to prevent them from getting any real work done, was a welcome contrast to Holt's straight-lacedness and obsession with procedure

this episode trashed all of that, and did it in the most inept way possible. the show shifted paradigms and focus by separating out Holt and Gina, and found a more interesting program as a result. as opposed to Parks and Rec's ill-advised "Leslie elected to City Council" plot point, kicking Holt "upstairs" made for a stronger show in a couple of ways, and turned out to be a welcome shakeup in structure the show sorta needed. going back on all of that was a mistake, and doing it in barely four episodes makes it even worse. they had a really interesting idea that was creating some good stories in Holt being in PR that they immediately nipped in the bud to reset to status quo. this makes all the oolong slayer stuff from just sorta boring to almost offensively bad, because it was so barefacedly a way to bring Holt back. the weird, uninvested air the episode had in the stakes or relevance of the A-plot now makes sense in retrospect, because the show itself didn't care - it was just a means to an end. it was a plot written with that final shot in mind, so simply went through the motions until it hit them.

sending holt away was this huge season ending moment. bringing holt back should've had just as much if not more weight - it should've had a villain we, the audience, were invested in, it probably should've been a multi-part story, it honestly should've been at least a mid-season finale move. give holt and gina time to actually invest in the PR job over taking them out of it within four episodes.

holt being brought back should've been built to, narratively. it should've felt important and like an accomplishment, like jake and holt had experienced a road of trials and come out the other side. it shouldn't have been this just awkwardly tossed away thing where jake trades collaring a guy nobody knows or cares about for getting his father figure back within literally like half a minute. it just felt so authored, so forced, so blatantly a "bring X to Y" move. and the entire show totally suffered as a result.

Hakkesshu posted:

"You want your own do group?"

RoboCicero posted:

Also the pacing of the shot at the bar with Jake and Gina and Jake pausing, then tentatively kissing Gina on the forehead right before booking it was great.

Riven posted:

If they had better ideas for what to do with a new captain at the precinct I would have been fine, as Holt at PR was funny.

But every new captain joke fell flat for me, so I'm fine they brought him back so fast. The elevator opening had enough weight for me, and it was a good character growth moment for Jake.

"No, we are gonna find this guy." Or whatever the line was my favorite. Holy completely buying into Jake's craziness because he's so unhappy was great.

notaspy posted:

One thing, does the chief of detectives our rank wunch?

Toxxupation posted:

BigDave posted:

I still want to see some Wunch/Lunch insults from Holt.

Best line of the 3rd episode: "oh, hey, just out taking my gun for a walk in nightmare land."

Toxxupation posted:

So many

adrenaline_junket posted:

I would have also been ok with some sort of dating montage where they cycle through captains one after another whilst trying to find another Holt. Only to realise that they really only want Holt.

Davros1 posted:

"Because she's a BAT." Seriously, I hope they keep having Sedgwick show up ala Tammy 2 on Parks & Rec. Not too often, but just enough to remember how awesome they are.

Macdeo Lurjtux posted:

Has there been any word on if Mary Lynn Raksaub would be coming back in more episodes?

Toxxupation posted:

words

Maxwell Lord posted:

It was a little swift, but I think they'd gotten all the jokes they could out of the Vulture being in charge and Holt working in PR, so there was no point drawing things out.