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reignonyourparade posted:It didn't release half done, Johan really truly believed that the game would be embraced by the silent majority who doesn't spend any of their time on forums (in fairness, he's been right basically every other time he decided to ignore the forums.) I'm sure there were some things where they just didn't have enough time do what they really wanted, but the majority of it's release flaws were products of what the game was actively trying to be. Announcing a new PDX title with Characters and Pops and then having it not reflect the use of Characters and Pops from beloved series CK and Vicky was always going to be a disaster. ilitarist posted:Yeah, it was released as a complete and polished experience. It just turned out that people really wanted a different experience. So now Imperator Rome turns from a Hideo Kojima production game (directed by Hideo Kojima) into amalgam of everything players want to have. Seems to be designed by committee deal now. It wasn't that people wanted a different experience, PDX told people what to expect with the way they described the game and then delivered something different. If they'd announced it as a roman themed EU spinoff with improved period specific warfare mechanics, it would have totally delivered. Fellblade fucked around with this message at 11:49 on Jan 6, 2021 |
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Jan 6, 2021 11:42
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They delivered exactly what they promised. A lot of people were mad at Paradox long before the release because of those promises. Mechanics-focused strategy game with a very heavy focus on resource management, the dreaded mana. Johan called it a map painter. Look at the pre-release announcement: https://www.paradoxinteractive.com/en/hail-citizens-paradox-announces-release-date-for-imperator-rome/ People might have expected this to be Vicky 2 or CK3 but it was never a case of Paradox promising something they didn't deliver. They've made a spiritual successor to their own EU: Rome (but didn't call it EU: Rome 2 because that's a dumb name), expanded and modernized.
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Jan 6, 2021 11:55
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ilitarist posted:Yeah, it was released as a complete and polished experience. It just turned out that people really wanted a different experience. So now Imperator Rome turns from a Hideo Kojima production game (directed by Hideo Kojima) into amalgam of everything players want to have. Seems to be designed by committee deal now. The risk of a Hideo Kojima production game (directed by Hideo Kojima) is that if Hideo Kojima is wrong about what people like, the result risks being a complete, polished experience that is still bad despite being complete and polished. Johan believed that the Core Paradox Wargame Experience can carry a game on it's own and it turns out that it can't, not in enough numbers to carry a game that needs also sell DLC for their business model. ilitarist posted:They delivered exactly what they promised. A lot of people were mad at Paradox long before the release because of those promises. Mechanics-focused strategy game with a very heavy focus on resource management, the dreaded mana. Johan called it a map painter. Look at the pre-release announcement: Too bad it sucked.
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Jan 6, 2021 11:56
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Ignoring the forums, including this one, sounds like the smart thing to do about 99% of the time. Give or take 1%.
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Jan 6, 2021 12:18
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ilitarist posted:They delivered exactly what they promised. A lot of people were mad at Paradox long before the release because of those promises. Mechanics-focused strategy game with a very heavy focus on resource management, the dreaded mana. Johan called it a map painter. Look at the pre-release announcement: The big announcement of the game had Johan on stage in a toga going 'IT HAS POPS, IT HAS CHARACTERS!'. If you don't control expectations they gently caress you.
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Jan 6, 2021 12:30
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The advertising on Steam etc. also pushed the character aspect of the game hard. If you looked into the game in any detail it was clear that the characters were only a minor feature but if you only looked at the marketing stuff it painted a totally different picture.
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Jan 6, 2021 13:02
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ilitarist posted:People might have expected this to be Vicky 2 or CK3 but it was never a case of Paradox promising something they didn't deliver. They've made a spiritual successor to their own EU: Rome (but didn't call it EU: Rome 2 because that's a dumb name), expanded and modernized. No one expected this. They expected multiplayer to work and the game mechanics to be more than "wait for war mana to tick up to fight war, then wait for assimilation to complete in 10 years before doing again". The game was (and probably is) bad, empty, and barren. Despite this, it was presented as the most feature complete and rich game Paradox ever released, multiple times. Perhaps the most damning part was Johan's admission that they started with the EU: Rome codebase (it wasn't a spiritual successor, I'm afraid you're Just Lying about that), and just iterated from there, and disregarded the last 10 years (or more) of game design lessons Paradox had. It was a big failure and one Paradox should really internalize moving forward. Unfortunately I'm concerned about that, as apparently All is Not Well in the company culture standpoint.
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Jan 6, 2021 13:14
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having to keep track of all the different loving mana is why i only last a few hours of EU4 since its initial few DLCs
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Jan 6, 2021 13:30
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Jesus, Beamed, are you all right? I haven't tried multiplayer, but I have completely different experience in everything else. For me it was the only game coming close to repeating EU4 greatness. Big, complex, full of stuff. Not different enough from EU4 for me to get distracted for a long time, but a fine game on its own
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Jan 6, 2021 13:42
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Jeoh posted:having to keep track of all the different loving mana is why i only last a few hours of EU4 since its initial few DLCs There's only three kinds
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Jan 6, 2021 13:50
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My own "minor stuff can turn you off a game real fast" anecdote is when I started the new Rome for the first time as Rome (because y'know, play the country they designed most) and I did the usual thing you do when you start a Paradox game - pause the game, plan your wars, deal with any outstanding issues, make alliances and so on and so on and so on. Like an hour later I unpause the game, wait a month, and suddenly I get an event that gives me claims on a whole bunch of territories, completely upending any strategy I just spent the last hour making. Gimme the claims from day one dammit
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Jan 6, 2021 13:54
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VostokProgram posted:Victoria 3 will only be released once wiz has proven P = NP Perhaps once I finish my current secret project which I think we all know is an official Hearts of Iron adaptation of AzeriLP. That, or Sengoku 4.
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Jan 6, 2021 14:02
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Gort posted:There's only three kinds Strategy games went wrong the moment Blizzard looked at Dune 2 and said "lets make that but with 2 kinds of resource"
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Jan 6, 2021 14:05
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ilitarist posted:Jesus, Beamed, are you all right? Gort posted:There's only three kinds professionalism is basically a manpower resource
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Jan 6, 2021 14:51
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Professionalism is a modifier not a mana. E: and you can just turn that DLC off if it really bothers you
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Jan 6, 2021 17:29
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Mantis42 posted:Professionalism is a modifier not a mana. edit: and because of PDX's DLC model, you also lose a bunch of QoL stuff and other mechanics that you may like
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Jan 6, 2021 18:31
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ilitarist posted:Jesus, Beamed, are you all right? Lol this stuff because someone got ranty over a crappy videogame exeprience Imperator was just awful, it wasn't an expectation problem, it was a Johan delivers an incredibly straightforward game that has no compelling reason to be played vs any of their other products.
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Jan 6, 2021 18:35
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It’s actually use is building up mana to click the manpower button
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Jan 6, 2021 18:35
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Imperator: Rome was a really good EU4 total conversion mod on release, unfortunately EU4 is my least favorite Paradox game and also I don't want to pay full price for a good mod
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Jan 6, 2021 18:36
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Ham Sandwiches posted:Lol this stuff because someone got ranty over a crappy videogame exeprience Beamed used Capital Letters for some terms which may signify a disturbed or a German mind. I don't think I:R was a bad game but I kinda agree with you. Even CK3 has a stronger case for you to drop other Paradox games than I:R. Also other games may have a lot of thematic hooks giving you reason to play as variety of starts. Mot I:R players would only know major powers of the day, and those are easy and boring to play, especially Rome.
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Jan 6, 2021 18:43
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Crazycryodude posted:Imperator: Rome was a really good EU4 total conversion mod on release, unfortunately EU4 is my least favorite Paradox game and also I don't want to pay full price for a good mod EU4 has a critical difference that makes it fun and popular: it has flavor
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Jan 6, 2021 18:48
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I thought a problem of Imperator was building off of EU:R and missing out on QOL features added to Paradox games since then, not that it was EU4 without flavour.
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Jan 6, 2021 19:01
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It's often hard to say what makes a good game good or a bad game bad. We like to focus on the details of mechanics, mana systems bad and so on, but at the end of the day it all comes down to the experience. Sometimes a really janky game can provide countless hours of fun because despite the jank it has enough character and results in really fun stories to keep you coming back. Other times games can, on paper, have all the correct mechanics and focus but just be a boring slog. Or sometimes it's all jank plus no character...
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Jan 6, 2021 19:05
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It’s all about the provided general atmosphere in the end, and how much you enjoyed how it made you feel. I:R just felt very spreadsheet-y somehow, more than the usual paradox game. I guess we entered the uncanny valley of spreadsheets map games.
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Jan 6, 2021 19:14
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imperator's UI was eye-searingly ugly and i lost interest in it super fast as a result it might be the greatest game ever, who knows
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Jan 6, 2021 19:23
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Why would someone play it? To putter around in rome in a stripped down game with few events, no meaningful pop interactions, and like... what? Advance the clock? There's no narrative hook like CK3. There's no "paint the map" grand aspect like EU4. There's no "fight WW2" aspect like HOI4. The design could have been tightly focused on something - leading a classical family, or a "great person" like simulator where you take some rando and try to conquer the world with them. Or a religion / belief / tech progression simulator. I'd find "build a merchant empire simulator in antiquity" more interesting than what Imperator is today. The game doesn't advance to anything meaningful. Can't get into the characters, the systems are shallow compared to CK3. Not very excited about the combat or the strategic aspects. It doesn't have immersion or flavor. What does it offer?
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Jan 6, 2021 19:34
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Ham Sandwiches posted:Why would someone play it? To putter around in rome in a stripped down game with few events, no meaningful pop interactions, and like... what? Advance the clock? painting the map, exceeding the roman empire, vengeance for carthage, vengeance for greece the appeal is there if you're already interested in the time period, but not so much otherwise
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Jan 6, 2021 19:39
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Ham Sandwiches posted:There's no "paint the map" grand aspect like EU4. Eh? How isn't there?
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Jan 7, 2021 00:02
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Crazycryodude posted:Imperator: Rome was a really good EU4 total conversion mod on release, unfortunately EU4 is my least favorite Paradox game and also I don't want to pay full price for a good mod EU4 actually had a much better total conversion mod for a Roman setting. Imperator was very ok with a few cool ideas but otherwise kinda dull.
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Jan 7, 2021 00:26
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Gort posted:Eh? How isn't there? Just that as the poster above said if I wanted to paint the map in a pdx game other titles do it better, and an antiquity theme mod for eu4 or ck2 would be more interesting to me hoi4 offers a compelling difference in map painting as well. I didn't feel that imperators version was unique. or different enough to get me into the game.
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Jan 7, 2021 00:32
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Hell I'm a fan of the period and the game is just obtuse and difficult and confused on what it is trying to be. By half assing every system pdx has done, it did them all terribly and they don't mix together well. If I want to play Rome, I look at my character have to square away their issues, make friends with the right people ensure the senate likes me, oh poo poo look it's new election time and I'm now someone else who has to do this all over again. It doesn't capture the flavor of ruling in that time period, the dynamics between powerful families, polis, a proto state. The general loyalty mechanic is so out of place. Oh sure you're like generals in Rome rebelled all the time. Yes 100 years after the game ends when Rome is an Empire controlling the Mediterranean. I wanted it to be good so bad. And what's there is just hollow and unfun and confused.
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Jan 7, 2021 03:54
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imperator is pretty fun right now but it definitely needs more work done on the character side of things. as it stands, characters just dont matter at all.
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Jan 7, 2021 03:59
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Imperator's problem is that it can't be a proper EU:R successor because there isn't a Crete 2.
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Jan 7, 2021 04:53
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Imperator would be fun if they figured out a different mechanic to focus on and not just try to hobble together pieces of other games. Hell, even if they made a Roman-era themed copy of CK3 it would be more fun. Having something like development, trade and/or "civilization" be the main focus of the game would be pretty good, too.
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Jan 7, 2021 05:54
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Takanago posted:Imperator's problem is that it can't be a proper EU:R successor because there isn't a Crete 2. If only the Populists hadn't voted down the Crete 2 bill because it didn't contain military pensions for warhorses.
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Jan 7, 2021 09:51
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Glass of Milk posted:Having something like development, trade and/or "civilization" be the main focus of the game would be pretty good, too. That is kind of what they seem to be going for in 2.0, like the levy system ties your pops directly to your military power which is going to make the game play very differently. They really need to rework trade though, the current system just isn't very satisfying after the early game.
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Jan 7, 2021 10:55
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I dont iknow about you, but personally, manually clicking three hundred times to convert province culture and religion was very fulfilling. I can't believe they changed it.
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Jan 9, 2021 21:47
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Victoria I, pops.
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Jan 9, 2021 23:13
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Popoto posted:Victoria I, pops. oh no i ran out of craftsmen again, time to split a billion farmer pop stacks
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Jan 9, 2021 23:21
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Raskolnikov38 posted:oh no i ran out of craftsmen again, time to split a billion farmer pop stacks God Ricky was an obtuse rear end game.
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Jan 10, 2021 00:34
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