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zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

dead comedy forums posted:

Really? I thought they would eventually go for a new engine (emphasis on eventually), guess I was mistaken


lol, you are right, I meant in that awful "cultural Christian" sense that serves as fash bait: "SO YOU CAN KILL JESUS BUT NOT MUHAMMAD?", get it?


:perfect:
Clausewitz was mostly a rendering pipeline step change to go from 90s tech to modern tech. Since then 3d tech has been mostly evolutionary in a way that's not incredibly hard to support and upgrade compared to technical voodoo it took to go from Eu2 to 3.

There's hooks and framework for map games specifically but it's general enough to not need to reinvent the wheel and most of the gains that allow province/agent count and interactive bits are in implementation.

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zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Some of the most interesting and dynamic parts of CK2 are the devolutionary parts and are basically a hurdle for most players to reflexively jump past and never want to consider again. Like everyone tries to get out of gavelkind and imprison any count looking at you funny and get viceroys to keep your empire sperg garden perfectly trimmed and ever growing.

It's hard to do devolution when our brains are wired entirely for number-go-up.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Pirate Radar posted:

So will the whole map be filled in with counties/provinces/whatever or will there be some places (other than the Sahara) that will be greyed out “HIC AUTEM DRACONES” areas?
I think all we know for sure are the brown bits are where the map ends. What they do with the rest is probably up in the air. Even North Africa, the way I understand it is the Sahara was arid but liveable at this point.

The more I see if how detailed what is already there is I don't know if we really need the Sahara or the steppes so I wouldn't be surprised to see less filled in of the gray. But at this point the brown edges are still calling their shots.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Can't wait to set freemen priority to promote to citizen but there's not enough wine for them on the market so the setting does nothing.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
I had almost forgotten about the horn doots when clicking your court but you just reminded me and now I can perfectly hear it in my head again, thanks.

CKDV was fine but plagued with bad UI and bugged events. CK2 at release was basically fixed CKDV with a vaguely usable UI and it was actually a little disappointing until Old God's.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
CK2 was entirely playable and the last thing I wanted to play at the time. It was just kind of there.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Buildings are cookie clicker but that's ok I guess. There's a reason there are good and bad spreadsheet games and I can't exactly feed my need for larger numbers by just typing 999999*999999 into a calculator over and over.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
If you're still on 32bit you've lost the ability to feel human long ago.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
The eternal economic struggle of finding a party that can cut taxes enough without forcing you to rely on braindead capitalists building boat factroys.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

reignonyourparade posted:

I have literally never heard the Latin version of it, just name your drat game "Rome 2"
Fixed.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
The performance of India in CK2 was just a side effect. The real issue is nothing really spills over the karakorum in either direction without player prodding. So it's just an appendix of a dharmic thunder dome that's there just in case someone wants to play a Timur.

Being there from the ground up means there's a better chance to integration but the pessimist in me is still worried it's going to be an appendix just in case a player wants to be Alexander part two.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Agean90 posted:

pretty lol at every making gameplay judgements about a game whos gameplay we know functionally nothing about

any way goddam vicky 2 owns, i really want vicky 3 but im not sure if id be able to love it as much with out the jank and the perpetual feeling that im just kinda guessing about how the game works.
I like thinking this entire reply is about Vicky 2 after the other ones that were like actually the economy is Who's Line is it Anyway.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

idhrendur posted:

From what I hear, the bad part isn't the 50 year old language or the 50 year old system, it's the 50 year old development practices: fixing only the immediate bugs, being afraid to make any improvements, refusing to allow for tests, frequently no modern source control, frequently old code editors, and no comprehension that all of that is why the code base is a creaky mess just waiting to blow up.

I considered that career path once, but it sounds worse than working for an AAA game studio.
One final whammy of why even the brightest new grad would fail even if they were ready for the technical challenges is that the first generation were accountants first and computer scientists by experience. The documentation if any is going to assume an accountant is reading it so it's going to be like this program does an interest free triple lutz and nobody is going to understand why you don't understand the steps in doing an interest free triple lutz because the last guy knew what an interest free triple lutz is so what are you some kind of imbecile?

That goes for a lot of worthwhile business systems jobs but is aggravated for the legacy stuff because noone understands why you might need a green accountant and a green programmer to replace one experienced guy.

All bets are off for Fortran because you can't just hire a guy who knows Fortran, you absolutely need someone who knows fortran and also the science being coded.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
CK, EU, HOI, Microsoft Excel are all the same game. It's just playing with formulas to fill your color into a graph.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Rebels have no winning answer, locking Rev behind one in EU or radicals in Vicky aren't exactly brilliant implementations either.

VostokProgram posted:

General question for paradox devs, purely out of curiosity: how much of what your QA department does is balance playtesting vs. "does the thing actually work" testing? Asking because I work in software QA (not in games) and I feel like the state space of testing a paradox game would give me an aneurysm. Especially because it doesn't seem very automatable
They get a lot of balance mileage out of office multiplayer games. The rest I assume is that they get AARs from testers who are testing XYZ but are seeing all the campaign bits together over the course of their unit anyway.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
In order to avoid any accidental revisionism, you need to complete a test like in Leisure Suit Larry 3 before you are allowed to select any country, demonstrating that when you lead the Nazis to victory in the East, you will be somber enough after your "hell yeah I beat the game" to append "but really was it worth it?"

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Paradox had to excercise it's right to intellectual property made incidental to day to day work but good news now Victoria's Secret is fully funded and endorsed.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

I have to agree with the sentiment that there is plenty of things that can be done in a theoretical CK3. Most of these have already been listed, but
  • Economy
  • Buildings
  • Province Management
  • Trade
  • Drastically different non-Feudal playstyles (Hordes, Pagans, Muslims, Byzantines, India, China, and the little things in between)
  • Migrations
  • Disasters
  • Combat
  • Make Theocracies and Republics a normal playstyle rather than a special Merchant Republic only

and there is probably more. You dont need to go into Pop Detail like Imperator is doing but adding it so you can play as a Republic of X where instead of playing as a family line, you are playing as that republic and you play as the spirit of that republic like in EU4, but if you lose the namesake city its gameover (or something like that).
I think most importantly to a sequel is we have examples of the hardcoded bits hammered into things trying to be all of that between DLC or mods. So the designer and programmers can build some of the core to support the same ideas in a way that we can finally get away from "this new mode is feudal, but these events make it do this"

A good CK3 will be technically missing features from CK2 DLC but its ok because it will obviously not fit 1:1 in the new game and you can see the bolt-on points where it might with mods or newer better DLC.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Agean90 posted:

i still maintain that armies as counters you click around the map are dated and should be replaced in vicky 3 with a system that better represents the increased use of preplanning and mobilization in warfare
Same but CK3 and campaigning as a host.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Alchenar posted:

Does anyone christian or otherwise say anno domini unless they are literally performing mass (Spoiler: I don't know if you say that in mass)?

And yeah at first blush I thought it would be trivial to make the years count down rather than up, but really count the number of event timers and triggers in your average Paradox game that rely on a number going up and do you really want to have to be the person parsing all that code to make sure the equations are all backwards? Lots of unnecessary work.
Lol, it'd be a UI alias if they wanted it. Count up in the guts. Apply an alias on the UI presentation where internal epoch point 154363 = March 15 44 BC.

E. I should be clearer in saying it wouldn't be free and effortless to do since it'd be a new piece of UI code, but it's not like you need to redesign the event engine to keep track of counting down.

zedprime fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Feb 15, 2019

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
I should be able to pass laws that implement my personal calendar.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Give me Democracy 3 with a world map and different time periods and your foreign policy and military fills into an unintelligible void that affects other national inputs based on diplomatic relations.

It doesn't need to replace EU or Rome, there's a certain something about the army dances but I'm tired of them and don't want to deal with anything besides smashing two hosts together over and over in CK2. Although eventually I'm gonna end up trying HOI4 because battle plans and some of the national stuff sounds neat.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Jeoh posted:

The more frequently you release, the less complex the set of changes to test.
From a technical point of view you still need to do a regression pass which is a pretty fixed effort no matter what the change is.

For strategy games you have a balance pass for anything that isn't UIX which would really terrify me as a release manager too. Expansion breakfixes and yearly content patches that do or don't come with the expansion are about as agile as I'd want them to be.

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zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

GrossMurpel posted:

How is that, compared to Railroad Tycoon 2?
Not as crunchy economically but it tries. Looks really good and route laying is pretty ok. It was released as balanced for ghost trains with solid trains requiring signalling being a bonus difficulty for the player so buying a company was a total non starter unless you wanted to liquidate the whole thing. But now it's balanced for solids trains and the AI knows how to lay signalled track. Not well, but you can theoretically buy them and run their lines. You can always play with ghost trains too.

They release a DLC every few months and the base game goes on sale for it so you can check it out really cheap if you're patient.

E. Turns out it's on sale for 30 more minutes so that probably explains why we're talking about it here but FYI.

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