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Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Oh yea, Vicky 2 is a broken game in many ways. But it also captures the spirit of the period in many ways like no other game does, and thats what keeps the desire for Vicky 3 alive.

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Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

Is this a new feature in EU4? I havent played the game in a long while and other than very few random events I never noticed Dev passively increasing (via event or otherwise) to nearly the degree that it should to even remotely sorta follow historical growth.

Noo he's just talking about the random events.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


They have different purposes - Mapgoons is mostly around organizing MP games of paradox games and discussion being incidental to that (want your nazi-free HOI4 games? Place to go) while the other one is more about discussing running LPs and LPers. This is why discord is not a replacement for a forum and we should fight to reclaim our forum from Lowtaxes abusive grip.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Civ 4 bts is better than civ 3 in every way, (all all later civs), sorry guys.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Yea, EU4 AI is good enough I think mostly because EU4 doesn't have enough internal development for the AI to screw up massively. You can be reasonably confident the AI will use their development in sensiblish ways and field a near forcelimit army.

In stellaris (and Civ) you realise you've won the game by the midgame when your economics leaves the AIs in the dust, and there's no challenge because of resource/tech disparity and no reward either because of it.

This is odd, because the economic maximisation stuff is what you'd expect an AI to be good at - it all involves known information and calculations and planning. But plenty of strategy games haven't worked out or haven't bothered to get their AI to be able to use their economic systems as well as a human player.

Nothingtoseehere fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Mar 21, 2021

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


If you want a sci fi 4x boardgame, why not just play Eclipse?

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


I make it the 1700s in most serious EU4 campaigns - which may not be the end but is a bigger chunk of the campaign than most strategy games manage.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Hype

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Mans posted:

Where are you reading this?

No armed conflicts?

It's not no (wars are still a thing) but it looks like they are dempthsising war as a focus and more as "your mil power is good for bullying others, and you can actually use it at a pinch"

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


The Cheshire Cat posted:

I do wonder if a lot of modern resentment of Cromwell in the UK is mostly due to the fact that they have to spend so much time learning about a guy who, ultimately, did not really have an impact on the modern United Kingdom. He did a lot of stuff during his lifetime, sure, but then after he died basically everything was reset to how it was before the war. There's got to be a feeling of "is this guy really so important that we have to keep learning about him?"

Speak for yourself, I never even covered him im school. Most people won't these days. Mandatory history education stops at 13 and 13-18 is more focused on deep dives in a topic area to develop skills and understanding than wide surveys of British history as a whole, there's just too much of it.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Fellblade posted:

In the UK I think there's a set of things teachers are allowed to pick from, development of medicine, Weimar Germany, etc. So it's kinda standardised but you could just miss out something entirely if the school / teacher decided not to go with one of them.

Edit: knock yourself out
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-curriculum-in-england-history-programmes-of-study

I think Key Stage 3 is after students get to choose to continue doing history or not, so all that stuff gets missed by most.

And the Key stage 3 stuff is broader than exam boards actually present. Schools pick an exam board for thier GCSE history courses, and those exam boards offer papers on certain topics. For example, if you take Edexcel GCSE History, a common choice, you'll spend your 13-16 years learning about 3 seperate topics.

Paper 1: Thematic study and historic environment posted:

Students take one of the following options:

10: Crime and punishment in Britain, c1000–present
and Whitechapel, c1870–c1900: crime, policing and the inner city.
11: Medicine in Britain, c1250–present
and The British sector of the Western Front, 1914–18: injuries, treatment and the
trenches.
12: Warfare and British society, c1250–present
and London and the Second World War, 1939–45.
13: Migrants in Britain, c800–present
and Notting Hill, c1948–c1970.


Paper 2: Period study and British depth study posted:


Students take one of the following British depth study options:
B1: Anglo-Saxon and Norman England, c1060–88
B2: The reigns of King Richard I and King John, 1189–1216
B3: Henry VIII and his ministers, 1509–40
B4: Early Elizabethan England, 1558–88.

Students also take one of the following period study options:
P1: Spain and the ‘New World’, c1490–c1555
P2: British America, 1713–83: empire and revolution
P3: The American West, c1835–c1895
P4: Superpower relations and the Cold War, 1941–91
P5: Conflict in the Middle East, 1945–95

Paper 3: Modern depth study posted:

Students take one of the following modern depth studies:
30: Russia and the Soviet Union, 1917–41
31: Weimar and Nazi Germany, 1918–39
32: Mao’s China, 1945–76
33: The USA, 1954–75: conflict at home and abroad.

The school picks which of those options you do, not you. So you can see how you not learn about Cromwell in school at all, or many other gaps in historical knowledge (Americans always seem to get quite suprised no-one cares about the American War of Independence in the UK, P2 isn't popular). Meanwhile, you have a ideally deeper understanding of other topics, and a better understanding of the historical process rather than learning lists of dates and names. It's a choice in what you want to teach children and what you think is most important for them to know and believe.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


hot cocoa on the couch posted:

would that be a "napoleon never wasted his veterans in russia" alt-hist or a "napoleon turns away the prussians at waterloo and defeats tolly's army in front of the rhine" alt-hist? imo you gotta go back to 1810 or 1811 to diverge from our timeline to give any chance to napoleon winning. he had no chance against the sixth coalition and would have needed the brilliance of napoleon during the third coalition to rebuke the russians after waterloo (which he probably didn't have since wagram, despite displaying flashes of it during the six days in france)

this is actually a really intriguing alt-hist for vicky 3, i agree. my brain is turning thinking about it right now haha

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=946684259 but for Vicky 3 rather that HOI4? It's a wider alt-hist (the Seven Years war is indecisive, the USA ends up a constitutional monarchy, etc) but basically Russia surrenders during the grand invasion and capulates rather than the Grand Armee retreating in defeat.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Lum_ posted:

yeah, as mentioned above the German economy was in an equally bad shape if not worse; the war didn't end because Americans marched over the Rhine, it ended because Germany collapsed into a revolution because its workers were starving. Tanks were also about to finally crack open trenches as seen in the battle of Cambrai, which happened independently of US involvement. Germans were far behind Britain in tank development.

Sure, but the fact of US intervention (and the hordes of US soldiers who started arriving in 1918 and would be even more present in 1919) is what allowed the Entente to make the aggressive pushes they did in 1918 that collapsed the western front. Without US intervention, the Entente probably don't have the money, reserves, or confidence to push the Hundred Days nearly as much as they did historically. You end up with a situlation where Germany is slowly dissolving but the Entente doesn't have the strength to actively push it, and that almost certainly leads to less of a defeat.

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


MP is the only way you get truely hostile other nations you have to think about.

But as Civ5 and Civ6 show, there is a large market for strategy games where the AI is not actually a aggressive threat to the player. "Number-goes-up" itself is engaging gameplay loop for many.

Given your love of competitive MP did you ever play dominions?

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Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


My opinion is that Imperator isn't balanced enough - there's just not enough viable starts/conflicts on the start date to give variety of outcomes and different campaigns for the player.

Look at EU4, even in Europe you've got England/France/Castille/Aragon/Portugal/Burgandy/Milan/Venice/Austria/Ottomans/Moscowy/Poland/Sweden/Brandenburg off the top of my head as interesting starts which play somewhere different to each other. And all of those countries will get into conflicts with a few others in different ways and have different directions of expansion which are viable.

In imperator, you've got... Rome/Carthage/Macedonia/Epirus/Egypt/Antagonids? And the last is a giant Ming-sized blob with no challenge at all, and the others are about a war or two from domiance.

Depending on your start, it's either nearly impossible or fairly easy to get to the same state it takes 200 years in EU4, where you are the strongest state with no meaningful challengers. And that leads to a bad game, no matter how interesting the mechanics were.

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