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HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

I strongly disagree about the city ranged attack. It makes it literally impossible to siege a city. You have to run up and assault it as fast as possible and for a game that is history based that is so loving ahistorical it drives me nuts. On top of that, its terrible annoying tedious gameplay. I do agree that cities should be hard to conquer, but give them a strong defense in the city tile itself rather than letting it nuke units like its an artillery piece.

remove city ranged attack if the city is surrounded, problem solved

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HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


Mantis42 posted:

lol if you think you're not doing worst than Leopold every time you play EU4. Yeah, that 20 dev province you culture converted just became a different culture in only 3 years, no one was hurt.

also you can exterminate natives very easily and sometimes that's just optimal

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


From everything I've heard from the dev side of things, Epic actually kinda offer an amazing deal for them, so, that's pretty cool. I'll wait until the steam release though.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


Dramicus posted:

That's what they said the first time it collapsed back in the 80s.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the bigger companies started shutting down and major publishers restructured massively when faced with the increasing costs of AAA game dev, but uh, pretty sure gaming wasn't mainstream back then.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


Sampatrick posted:

This is your brain on Gabe Newell. Any company that competes with steam the way that, y'know, marketplaces typically compete irl is actually the real monopoly, because you can no longer continue to use just one service for literally every game on the PC. Similarly, the monopolies of Google and Facebook are good, actually, because it's so convenient and convenience is all that matters at the end of the day.

To be fair, consumers aren't seeing the benefits of this competition. Epic's been stellar with devs, and really devs alone.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


Sampatrick posted:

EGS occupies the same market as Steam, which is a different market from Humble, GoG, Gamersgate, etc. EGS won't ever kill Steam, obviously, but at the same time that doesn't mean it won't force Steam to renegotiate with developers in order to convince them to not take exclusivity agreements. This is obviously good for consumers, because it means more money is being spent on the development of games, and its also good for developers because it means that they can now negotiate higher the revenue they get from sale of products.

Also, EGS definitely does offer alternative payment options.

While I partially agree with you (it's a dev benefit, but not necessarily a consumer benefit)

Gamerofthegame posted:

hey.

there's an epic games thread and a steam thread and whatever else, take your five month old rehashed zings there

I'd agree that we've pretty much hit the cap on EGS talk, every relevant talking point's been hit and frankly, who cares if a Surviving game is on EGS, it's not like Mars was that good.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


I wonder how many negative traits are going to be in CK3, and just how awful your characters can be. I look forward to my Average Bear playthrough.

PinheadSlim posted:

Lol well in an effort to stop loving around and get back on topic,

I downloaded CK2 since it's free now, but is it worth playing without any expansions or is it like Victoria 2?

God no, stuff like retinues, the best start date, most playable nations, plague management, becoming Satan, being able to choose to seduce the Pope, all of that is behind DLC iirc.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


Baronjutter posted:

I have two very thoughts on the "tall" question.

1. The very idea of making playing "Tall" competitive with "wide" is dumb as hell and ruins games. If not expanding and just turtleing is actually competitive and "balanced" with playing wide and conquering vast swaths of territory you're going to end up with a boring and lovely game with a broken risk/reward system.

2. I love to turtle and play tall and if I can't I have a hard time enjoying games.

These two points are not contradictory though because for me anyways the joy of going tall is knowing that it is not optimal and that I'm surviving despite it. Going "tall" should always be an option, but it should always be a much much worse ROI than going wide. Going tall should not be a distinct strategy but rather just the thing you do if you've been boxed in or run out of land or want to give your self a weird challenge.

I think going tall ought to come with it's own set of positives and drawbacks, and I think CK2 does them quite well from a military perspective, while EU4 does it quite well from a civil perspective. Countries that are tall in CK2 can concentrate their levies faster. Countries that are tall in EU4 can adopt institutions quicker. Being quicker to take important land or having the ability to defeat enemy elements in detail is a great perk of being tall, while having technological dominance for colonisation, relying on a political safety net is the same.

Playing tall however, doesn't have to just be not expanding and turtling. Having a number of client states can help in that regard. The HRE are a large number of "tall" nations together, and they're pretty strong as a collective.

Paradox does wide/tall very well. Especially in big multiplayer games in groups of bastards.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


Chomp8645 posted:

Are you saying that the Roman republic putting a million men in the field before 27 BC isn't realistic???

All at once, sure, but weren't the Romans notable for always having more troops ready to go after each loss?

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


Beamed posted:

Honestly, modelling this today as a constant, low-level background attrition isn't a bad idea.

It is a bad idea, because it means the unit will always display signs of attrition. It should be a manpower-side malus, if represented at all. I'd rather just assume that's abstracted in the manpower pool system without direct representation though, it offers little to no gameplay benefit in a game that doesn't track pop demographics.

Vic 3 however should have that.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


RabidWeasel posted:

Yeah that sounds awful, excessive micro is the thing that keeps me away from the RTS genre (I know that's kind of one of the defining factors but still)

It also completely lacks base building, and you only have hero units. It's a real-time tactics game, rather than RTS.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


It may have theoretical complexity, which I’d argue against, but it doesn’t have true variety and depth, and most importantly it’s less complicated as a simulation than CK2, less complicated politically than EU4 and certainly less mechanically deep - even if it may have some breadth on that front - and god drat Vicky 2?

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


Family Values posted:

To be fair, that's Paradox's (possibly) derogatory term for streamers, not what they call themselves.

Nope, that’s industry standard. Not derogatory.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


Family Values posted:

Do you not? It’s a synonym for shill.

It's a cringy business/legal categorisation, its used by all the PR and marketing firms in their communication to streamers and youtubers and whatnot, and is also used in order to sell execs on using them as a legitimate marketing method. That's all it is, not some antagonistic derogatory term. IIRC it came into general use around 2015, after the FTC/FCC cracked down on sponsored content on youtube without disclosure.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


Subscriptions for the older games is cool and good. If it hits the new crop, that'll suck.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


More money doesn’t mean worsening things for their core demographic, just suckering in new guys. If this lowers the bar to entry for folks to try the game with the DLC? Good! If it is the same thing but is net cheaper, some backend concerns but still cool.

I’d happily sub for something like a buck a month for just the fluff DLC, which is way more than I’d spend on them normally.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


Subscriptions are not necessarily bad for singleplayer games. It's just a case of implementation. If it was literally just the games Paradox have up on the Xbox Game Pass, but with all the DLC, it'd still be a good deal. Especially if they match that pricepoint.

Also, if it's a gateway to letting people try the full experience without having to pay the bigass one time cost per game? Heck yeah.

Airspace posted:

Have you actually played Koei's 3K games?

None of them are actually like TW3K.

The RoTK series is baffling. It's more like they have a couple sub-series that they keep pumping out, the Officer and the Nation style games, and they always shake up maybe one or two different things each release just to see what sticks. Then they charge full price for an expansion that brings in everything that stuck from previous releases.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


reignonyourparade posted:

Which subscription for singleplayer games has not been bad.

The Xbox Game Pass? Origin Access Basic isn't bad either, if those games are your cup of tea.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


Eimi posted:

The key is basically pricing. Those are like what, 10-15$ a month for a TON of games. While the EU pass seems to be 10$ a month for just EU4. Which is not great.

ilitarist posted:

Both of those give you access to dozens if not hundreds games. So it's hardly a subscription to a singleplayer game and rather a subscription to the store. With EU4 we're talking about buying a game and subscribing to its DLCs.

I agree. I'd happily pay $10 a month for the entire Paradox back catalogue (everything pre-CK2), CK2 and all DLC, as well as EU4 with all DLC, along with no DLC versions of the rest of the newer releases, for example, or other games published by Paradox.

As you guys are saying, EU4 alone would be a harder sell. Might be able to convince friends to go in on it at $5. I'd probably be willing to throw $1 a month away for purely the cosmetic DLC, which I'd never otherwise buy.

Stux posted:

the right answer was humble monthly which just gives you game keys and you keep everything

Eh, Humble Choice and Monthly are strange ones. Monthly was a straight lootbox and Choice is a bundle system. Something like the Humble Trove would be cool for older Paradox games.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


Stellaris keeps spiking because of casual fans of it, like most of my friends. I'm genuinely shocked at how consistently HoI 4 tops that list though. Feel bad for Imperator, it's not great but it's not that awful.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


CK2 is technically complex because it has so many moving pieces, many more than EU4, but it's not like you actually need to interface with all the complexity. However, I highly recommend watching some of the older content of a youtuber such as Arumba break the game over their knee with nonsense.

To me, CK2 is much more like a grand strategy idle game that occasionally makes a good story or two.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


Stux posted:

what are the pieces and how do i interact with them though i guess is what im asking. i want the complexity. i feel like its a lot easier to break the game over your knee, my first game was as a muslim duchy in iberia and i ended up holding all of spain, france, a large part of north africa and most of germany before i felt like there was no point to what i was doing anymore. the character stuff especially felt shallow and maybe that was expectations, because i was expecting it to be the focus from what i had heard, but all my rulers ended up feeling very similar. is this a problem with the game where only a small number of regions/religions have all the events or something?

Uh, it's mostly dumb poo poo like finding the genetic traits, marrying into the right generations of families for the longest alliances, taking certain actions to trigger certain events. Again, check out some older Arumba CK2 content. If it doesn't do anything for you and it feels either too easy or too dull, which is pretty much where I also stand outside of the roleplaying or fun story aspects, then it's just not for you.

The few games I actually enjoyed were playing Norse when Old Gods came out. The mess of Gavelkind and unruly vassals and always looting were fun until you figure out where all the potential problems come about and you get that right formula to not gently caress up. I think that the issue might be that the AI is in general quite passive feeling compared to even EU4.

Flavius Aetass posted:

To me, Stellaris suffers from the wars being too lopsided. One participant finds their ships completely outclassed and there's often no coming back from the first big battle.

My top desired change for Stellaris would be to have all warships be basically flagships and it's more focused on how they're outfitted. It'd actually make the ship designer interesting and gives a reason for you to care about each ship.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


Hellioning posted:

I want HoI5.

I also want HoI5.

In Vicky 3.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


I didn't even regret Imperator. Certainly not my favourite game, but I got my money's worth out of it. Modern Paradox games are at worst, decent skinner boxes. Never been much of a fan of make numbers go up loot driven RPGs, but make that grand strategy? That'll keep me going for at least twenty hours.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


I do find it funny that the game is about Rome, has Rome in the title, is a sequel/remake of a game about Rome, and shipped with Rome having a single consul. That'll always make me chuckle a little.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


Crazycryodude posted:

Imperator: Rome was a really good EU4 total conversion mod on release, unfortunately EU4 is my least favorite Paradox game and also I don't want to pay full price for a good mod

EU4 actually had a much better total conversion mod for a Roman setting. Imperator was very ok with a few cool ideas but otherwise kinda dull.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


The 4X part is the part people tend to like the most though. The midgame, the part most like a standard Paradox title, has always been the most maligned aspect. I think Stellaris is quite good. Just not the amazing game everyone wanted it to be.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


KOGAHAZAN!! posted:

I'm not going to lie, once I'd managed to claw my way through the presentation, I found M&T's mechanics to be :discourse: as all hell.

I'm that guy now. I have won the victory over myself.

Yeah, M&T is fantastic. The way the new mechanics are crowbarred into the game isn't great, but the increase of actual relevant depth is wonderful.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


I’m thinking something wilder, something daft like a Pokemon Grand Strategy

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?



No they did a Pokemon Fire Emblem, it’s called Pokemon Conquest, featuring Oda Nobunaga

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


Fantasy GSG people, play King of Dragon Pass and Birthright - The Gorgon’s Alliance. Just imagine the two mashed together. Perfect game.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


CharlestheHammer posted:

I mean that’s what mods objectively are. Doesn’t speak to the quality of the mod or that it wasn’t hard work.

Like Europa Barbarum for Total war is a great mod, but it’s still just a mod

Divide et Impera for Rome 2, Star Trek New Horizons for Stellaris or MEIOU and Taxes for EU4 absolutely are far more than coats of paint. They’re wholly transformative experiences.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


Sadly the tech trees stop that from happening. I'd rather have a much more opaque system of design tenders, specs, prototyping and testing. Skip the testing if you're in a hurry or if it's too expensive. Find out that your torpedoes are ineffective and your tanks are breaking down. The tech tree system makes the war seem like a steady and linear progression.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


ilitarist posted:

So the masks were invented by V for Vendetta? Huh, I thought it was built on an existing tradition. See, a lot of stuff here depends on context. I can read a whole book on Cromwell or Gunpowder Plot and still don't understand how they feel in modern culture.

It was not invented by V for Vendetta, but it was popularised by it internationally.

Guy Fawkes isn’t seen as outright villainous, but rather pitiable. We use Bonfire Night to look down on him (penny for the guy) and then burn him. It’s one of history’s greatest dunks, IMHO.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


Charlz Guybon posted:

By who? Caesar, like Cromwell committed genocide.

Napoleon did not.

People don’t think about Caesar. Most people think he became Emperor, and if anything, only fought barbarians.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


Again, people wondering about the appeal of a fantasy game, play Anbennar, play Dominions, play Birthright, play Master of Magic. There absolutely is plenty there that could be a great deal of fun in the Paradox format. Heck, just imagine Anbennar that isn’t shackled by EU4’s mechanics.

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Didn't they quit 40k cuz GW cease and desisted them?

P dumb imo. Do they hate free marketing?

No, they were just scared of it.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


This is why Close Combat 2 is the best WW2 game. The Allied side is the losing side in an interesting three pronged operation with varied terrain and environments, with a reason to rush. Operation Market Garden is the best space for a game.

SkySteak posted:

Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa is one of the best examples I've seen of illustrating the horrors of the German warmachine and the regime behind it whilst not turning the game into an atrocity slideshow. It's not quite compable with HOI IV given you're playing as a Field Marshal in a specific campaign, but via its political point system and (semi) random events it makes you grapple with the idea of culpability and brutality. Hell whilst rudimentary it even rolls to see if you face a warcrimes tribunal post war. It's not perfect by any means, but it's a really good illustration of balancing mechanical options with what played out in the period depicted.

I love that the very first choice is "Are you playing as a Nazi" followed by "Are you listening to Hitler?". It helps so much in painting the breadth and division within the German war machine, especially in not being "warcrimes yes or no" but also, "which warcrimes", showing the different flavours of awful.

Also, Stalin having a purge button is good. Stalin's purge button being justified by a civil war unless he purges hard enough is bad. Again, I prefer DC:B's approach of Stalin just becoming increasingly paranoid about random generals and people, and if it gets to high he just has more people killed.

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


SnoochtotheNooch posted:

The real fuckin sickos are the one massacring whole entire loving planets in stellaris.

look, it's a hassle and boring to build armies to take some lovely planet, may as well just bomb it from orbit

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


It’s still the arch-belligerent, so that must be enough.

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HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


This is why the pony mod is better.

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