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Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


Autonomous Monster posted:

a) A micromanagement nightmare. The mother of all micromanagement nightmares.
b) Not actually interesting gameplay! All that work and not a single meaningful decision to be found.
c) Nonsense. So, what, you cart a couple wagonloads of paper down to the slums and suddenly everyone's clerks now?

Don't even get me started on pop splitting. :shepicide:

Yet another problem (for me anyway) was that I'd promote all my RGO workers unless they were mining something valuable, so after a few decades all the farms would lie fallow. No point in rich countries doing agriculture when transport costs are zero.

corn in the bible posted:

Thats also why I like Power and Revolution though that's not a pdox game of course

That looks insane and unplayable but it has some ideas I really like and want Paradox to steal.

Vivian Darkbloom fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Jun 3, 2016

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Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


I wonder if "simulation" as an ideal isn't kind of a red herring. If Vicky's systems for economy, population, and politics are supposed to be simulations of their real-life counterparts, there is really only the faintest resemblance. That isn't a knock against Paradox, it's just a fact that gigantic social systems are really hard to understand and predict for anyone. What does count against Paradox is that the resulting simulations are basically taking tons of programmer and CPU effort for no real benefit - the computer gets to have all the fun, as they say. I hope we'll see less emphasis on """realistic""" systems in the game, in favor of historically flavorful and fun mechanics.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


StashAugustine posted:

Falling Sky on Vassal

Probably many of you Paradox players know about these, but Falling Sky is part of the COIN (for "counterinsurgency") series of board games. It pits a Roman faction versus three Gallic tribes, and a trademark of the series is that only one player can win, so you're constantly screwing each other over. In fact, StashAugustine and others are playing a game right now. :monocle:

It's a really cool series that's worth getting into, if you feel like branching out from Paradox games. I've been playing Cuba Libre, about the Cuban revolution in the late 50s, and it's really scratching my itch for grand strategy, even though I'm playing solo versus "bot" algorithms that the game provides. I just managed to pull off a victory as Batista, where I did bad but the insurgent factions all did worse:

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


corn in the bible posted:

i worked it out once and a full game of pride of nations would take something like 200 hours, half of which would just be turn time loading

It had some really cool features but man the implementation and bloat are a hundred times worse than any Vicky title. :(

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


Boycotting because the expansion isn't entirely about cats :colbert:

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


corn in the bible posted:

i preordered stellaris and i was wrong

Yeah, when's that gonna be as good as EU4? :sigh:

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


Wiz posted:

EU4 at release or EU4 right now? Because EU4 now is after three years of iteration on the game,.

That's true, but it sure seemed like EU4 at launch had a lot more compelling stuff going on than Stellaris had at launch. I do regret preordering it, and I didn't feel that way about EU4 as I recall.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


Death and Taxes initially had good map changes (for EU3) and it was fun imo

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


I found V2's crisis system didn't always make a lot of sense, but it's still a fun and flavorful addition.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


EU4 has much better diplomatic AI than Vicky ever did - or at least more transparent diplo AI. If there were weighted factors for a government's will to intervene in a crisis that you could see and influence, the crisis system would be better. It's fun now for kicking off big silly wars, but it doesn't make much sense.

Actually maybe I'm misremembering and Vicky 2 did have something like this?

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


There could be balance problems with this, but I really wish your colonial nations cared more about expanding and maybe even liked you more for conquering provinces for them.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


The Cheshire Cat posted:

I think they do like you for giving them provinces? They don't seem to care when you grant them a claim but if you take a province yourself and then grant it to them they get a relations bonus based on its development (similar to the bonus you get if you develop one of their provinces).

What I was thinking of is when you conquer provinces for them, transferring the provinces in the peace deal directly from the enemy to your CN. Might be wrong but I don't remember any relations or trust bonus in that case.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


Mister Adequate posted:

In what way is that a problem?

It bloats the game without adding meaningful choices

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


I got into a real rabbit hole with the Imperialism games, which are on GOG. Actually the core gameplay has too much busy work so there really should be more variety in what the player does in a turn, but despite that it's a really tight, cutthroat economic race.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


I've come to feel the Sabaton soundtrack is the really vital DLC for EU4.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


I'm sure we'll see some different mechanics in CK3 (or whatever game Paradox plans to make) but I think the devs have regarded the slowly expanding map as a success. I wish the main area of focus was China and its neighbors, but I can't see that happening anytime soon!

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


Just take it all the way and add Meyer-Briggs personality types

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


just build Tropico 6 on top of Cities: Skylines, problem solved

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


I would love to see a title where you're just some guy in the basement of the military design bureau, deciding where to put the guns on your country's latest dreadnought (or whatever), and you only influence the richly detailed world through your narrowly-conceived job, a kind of trickle-down history from your design moves. I'm not sure there's enough "game" here compared to traditional grand strategy series, but I can dream!

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


Jon Shafer posted a post-Paradox update on At the Gates, fwiw
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jonshafer/jon-shafers-at-the-gates/posts/2049993

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


Vicky II was so beautiful it hurt. But there wasn't a lot of game happening -- the addition of crises in one of the expansions helped somewhat with this. And what about those newspapers, why did SimCity 2000 do a better job with that?

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

Newspapers? Oh that button that says 99+ all the time.

How else are you going to learn about the terrible relations between Paraguay and Oranje?

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


I bought Imperialism 1 & 2 from GOG recently and quite enjoyed them, but there's a lot of 90s game design in them, meaning plenty of busy work that really could be automated. A new version would be fantastic.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


Senor Dog posted:

I started playing eu4 before ck2 and felt the opposite way. I think you’re just being an old and grumpy grog

I mean, the required DLC thing is a big issue with both EU4 and CK2. I can see it being a real annoyance for new players of either title.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


Agean90 posted:

My favorite vicky 2 country is Czechoslovakia. good "ive played a game or 2 but im still new" game. Your a small, densly populated country with great powers on 3 sides and no navy to worry about. Good resources, and what your missing can be fixed by hitting gp status and sphering dudes.

How do you play as Czechoslovakia in 1836?

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


algebra testes posted:

Is there a good game in Rome 2? Isn't Rome 2 like starting EU4 as France at the height of their powers?

If Rome 2 turns out to just be blobbing like in EU4, yeah it would be pretty lame. I'd like to see a CK2-esque game with lots of internal bickering.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


uPen posted:

Was it you or Wiz that wrote courage push the bravery?

I think that was some fan-made game, "Capitalists builds a factroy" is the go-to here

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


I'm betting it's Asia Universalis. Well probably not but a game set in China would be awesome, and they could do a lot to flesh out the rest of East Asia.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


Paradox weekend sale on Steam. Some of the newer DLC is discounted only a little or not at all, as usual with these sales, but good time to get the back catalog stuff.
https://store.steampowered.com/sale/pdxcon/

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


WMain00 posted:

I can complete off my Crusader Kings 2 DLC though with that sale, which is pretty good!

Yeah, there's a (kinda buried) CK2 complete collection which I picked up:
https://store.steampowered.com/bundle/3096/Crusader_Kings_II_Collection/

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


unwantedplatypus posted:

I think another game in the age of industrialization/revolution would benefit greatly from the player controlling a political party/ interest group with only limited control of the country, even when in charge, whereby other parties and groups try to exercise their own influence over the country.

It's a compelling idea but it's never been clear quite what you would do while out of power, if there's no power-sharing like in parliamentary systems.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


Man, you could do an entire GSG just about 1968

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


are they really calling it rome 2?

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


Dr. Arbitrary posted:

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Have they ever released a game that was an incomplete stinker as a way of making money while they refine a new engine or new mechanics?

I gotta wonder if Sengoku or MotE actually made any money.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


Obfuscation posted:

Not a lot of concrete info but omens and trade were indeed terrible in EU:R so removing those is a good start.

I'm nervous to see any comparison to EU:R, because so much in that game was a poorly-implemented mess. I hope they start from scratch really.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


Klingon w Bowl Cut posted:

As a city-builder at heart, the main thing I want is the return of graphical representations for all buildings.

It just works a lot better when you're building only in state capitals, IMO. And even that should be automated at some point, so you can build the best stuff in your regional capitals and ignore the rest.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


Klingon w Bowl Cut posted:

What happens if the provinces in a state are owned by multiple nations? Do they all get a fraction of the benefit?

I can't remember quite what Vicky II did about this. I think it was possible to get less than a whole state (maybe just a province or two) in a war if you had claims on only part of the state. But yeah you'd need to scale it down for something like the HRE where there are a lot of countries smaller than a whole state.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


Pyromancer posted:

So I picked up Victoria 2 on sale and started to poke around with Russia, and it makes tons of money by selling trees, but it feels like there is nothing to spend it on, which is a strange problem to have in a strategy game.
Starting army is already pretty big, could build factories every week but there are not enough crafters to work at them just yet, maybe railroadify everything possible, but is it a good thing?

Do you have both expansions? You should have both expansions, as they changed the game a lot and there was even a beta patch. If so you could always horde goods and make life more expensive for everyone else, and it isn't bad to have a lot of cash on hand anyway.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


Come play in my xbox, my lord

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Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


Alchenar posted:

The best thing about AGEOD was when someone calculated that given the turn calculations times in their Victorian era game it would take something like 10 years to complete a game.

Hence everyone claiming that had multiple playthroughs and enjoyed them and nothing was wrong were clearly lying.

At $5 on steam I considered giving Pride of Nations another shot but apparently it runs even worse on modern systems since it's programmed to use only a single thread. What a shame.

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