Reasons why Gender segregation in sports is actually a good thing

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Reasons why Gender segregation in sports is actually a good thing

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

Wheeee posted:

They can take them, but they'll never be as huge or powerful.

Also good job reading racism into an image of a dude who looks like a fuckin space marine used as illustration of the fact that even the most roided out genetic freak woman on the planet is never going to be physically competitive in sports against similarly roided out freak men, goons

Women should be fully integrated into armed forces however since we have things like guns and vehicles now and don't just swing chunks of metal at each other.

yeah dude, women never fought before the invention of the automobile

# ¿ Oct 5, 2015 20:43

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 07:18

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

Women are incapable of developing the muscle tone necessary to hold 4-6 lbs in one hand. I choose logic.

# ¿ Oct 5, 2015 20:44

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

Frosted Flake posted:

As someone who has worked with women in the armed forces, that's not necessarily true. What I mean, is any woman should be able to try, but that doesn't always mean they'll be able.

Tank crews still have to change and tighten treads, artymen still need to lift shells and move trails.

It's dumb to arbitrarily prevent them from giving it a go though, there are enough wimpy guys who made the cut.

Mariya Oktyabrskaya was a genetic mutant, I guess.

# ¿ Oct 5, 2015 21:07

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

Frosted Flake posted:

You wouldn't know her name if she was typical.

Amazing, how she instinctively knew that she was one of the only women in the world capable of working as a mechanic on a tank, despite being a 38-year-old cannery worker and telephone operator.

# ¿ Oct 5, 2015 21:18

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

You can't quite see her bulging muscles in this picture. God drat these primitive Myspace angles.

# ¿ Oct 5, 2015 21:20

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

Frosted Flake posted:

Oh that's cool. You found one example of a female tanker. I'm sure if you google you'll find more examples of female Soviet tankers.

That doesn't mean most women, or even most men are suited for the job.

Japan lost WW2 because SJWism led them to have women work as stevedores, where they all died from trying to unload 50-lb bags of rice.

# ¿ Oct 5, 2015 21:33

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

Frosted Flake posted:

What exactly are you arguing here?

Women should be allowed to do any job in the military. Any job period, actually.

Not all people are suited for all jobs, women are no exception.

Many jobs in the military are still physically demanding, and not all people are up to it. Women are often physically smaller and weaker than men and that makes doing those jobs difficult.

Because, as you pointed out exceptional women can do a great job, there's no point having rules forbidding them from trying.

See, the problem here is that you're begging the question. You're presuming that the lack of women in the military is solely due to physical strength, and this in turn is leading you to say some very silly things, such as assuming that any woman who does succeed in the military is unusually strong, perhaps a genetic freak. There's a whole host of issues that surround the matter of women being in the military, and from talking with NCOs who've served in integrated militaries and reading the literature, there's actually plenty of room to rig physical examinations and the like to exclude women unnecessarily, without getting into the messy issues of culture.

And with that said, your argument is ridiculous because it leads to women having absurd levels of physical weakness that are trivially disprovable. Like, a 155 artillery shell weighs about a hundred pounds. Your contention is thus that the majority of women are incapable of ever lifting their own body weight without steroid abuse, by implication. Even adding a less silly qualifier about this applying to women just out of civilian life only, which goes directly against your statements, you're still in a realm where no women work in physically demanding jobs and where endurance is apparently less important than raw upper-body strength to physical labor. Like, historically, your statements are basically horseshit.

# ¿ Oct 5, 2015 21:54

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

A Buttery Pastry posted:

Not questioning your overall point necessarily, but isn't there more to it than just the question of whether you can lift a shell? You'd also have to be able to do it in a safe and controlled manner, and probably pretty fast too.

Actually, most people focus on women being weak, rather than women all being clumsy and slow, so they ignore that. But, again, think about this rationally for a second. This is saying that women are incapable of lifting less than their own body weight (in practical terms) safely, in a controlled manner, and quickly enough to be useful. Now, you could provide data suggesting that weightlifting women are just barely able to lift their body weight, but that doesn't exist.

Frosted Flake posted:

I spent 5 years lifting 155 shells, but please - tell me how easy it is to lift them.

It's not just lifting one, and it's not just lifting them for a short while. It's physical labour, in body armour (so add some weight and awkwardness) and exposed to the sun/wind/rain/snow, with little food and no sleep. That would be hard for anyone male or female.

I have worked with and under female troops who are much better at their jobs than I am. Troop commanders, signalers, surveyors, drivers, and yes gunners. Clearly being female didn't impact their ability to do their jobs.

The average Canadian woman is 161.0 cm.

Based on the Robinson formula (1983), her ideal weight is 54.8 kgs
Based on the Miller formula (1983), her ideal weight is 57.7 kgs
Based on the Devine formula (1974), her ideal weight is 53.3 kgs
Based on the Hamwi formula (1964), her ideal weight is 52.9 kgs
Based on the healthy BMI recommendation, her recommended weight is 48.0 kgs - 64.8 kgs

So - you expect her to be able to lift most of her bodyweight, all day, for days on end, with lovely food and little sleep.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but to say that it ought to be more common than it is is kinda absurd.

So you're taking the position that most military work involves a great deal of training and conditioning, and endurance is more important than raw strength, but you're still coming down on "women are just too frail to lift heavy weights without drugs". Well, it sure seems like you're open-minded.

# ¿ Oct 5, 2015 22:08

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

I enjoy the vision of history people had where peasant women didn't work in the fields but I guess ate chocolate all day or whatever.

Frosted Flake posted:

Weightlifters =/= the average military recruit.
Weightlifting conditions/nutrition/training =/= a military environment.

I don't think it's unfair to say most women are "incapable of lifting less than their own body weight (in practical terms) safely, in a controlled manner, and quickly enough to be useful." but that's not a justification to have rules preventing them from entering training to see if they are able to maximize their potential.

It is definitely about training and conditioning. Some women can take that training and excel, many cannot.

Take Ranger School or USMC SOI for example. Many men fail, and so have many women. It's just that proportionately more men pass, and they weren't all hand-picked to be the poster children with the best shot at success.

There's no shame in not being up to snuff. I failed out of Special Forces selection, as did 95% guys I did it with.

Okay, mi amigo, the point of that comparison was that if weightlifters were just barely capable of lifting that, then the average woman would be for sure incapable. Try to exercise the ol' grey matter a little.

I think it's not a question of being "unfair", it's a question of fact. If you want to believe that only genetic sports are capable of being able to lift their own body weight, as far as women go, then you can believe that, and close your eyes to the issue that our society does not encourage women to be physically fit. But that's not relevant.

I do enjoy comparing special forces to the artillery though, and so unconsciously too.

# ¿ Oct 5, 2015 22:27

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:

Also notice she was a tank driver, not a tank loader.

She was a mechanic, initially, and died while changing a tread. Now go and vote this thread 1 and run out of here crying again.

# ¿ Oct 5, 2015 23:02

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 07:18

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

Frosted Flake posted:

You never hear about all the men that lived after successfully changing a tread.

I thought you were in artillery, not a sniper.

# ¿ Oct 5, 2015 23:08

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Reasons why Gender segregation in sports is actually a good thing