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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:It's still class based, it's the rejection of leftist tactics like trade-unionism in favour of a "fun" politics. Bookchin called them lifestylists, the middle class uni kid who doesn't bother to engage with any theory, but really wants to smoke crack in a squat. It's not completely disengaged from theory in that you have people like Bob Black whose ideology is directly drawn from Max Stirner's egoistic anarchism. But yeah, there's a lot of middle class dropouts & a complete rejection of the whole point of left-wing politics, which the overwhelming majority of anarchist thought is linked to. It's a wanky scene for sure. 31st October, 1517. Martin Luther stuck his 95 Theses on the door of a German church, leading to a whole lot of war in Europe.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 21:44 |
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# ? May 11, 2024 08:15 |
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So it is literally liberalism then? "No God No Masters but I don't want to associate with them poors. Also let's not do anything drastic."
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 21:45 |
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If any of the regular Question Time goons would like to watch early 90s TV sensation Ghostwatch, we're watching at 10pm on 90s technology IRC (#ukgoons, synirc).
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 22:00 |
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OwlFancier posted:So it is literally liberalism then? More like, "Huh, get a load of these fuddy duddies. Thinking that general strikes as a revolutionary tool are possible in this day and age (a possibly valid criticism.) The REAL way to revolution is to do loving nothing except drop off the grid (oh.)"
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 22:02 |
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OwlFancier posted:What's "post left"? It's what you do in this thread if you don't want to be purged.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 22:08 |
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^^ niceOwlFancier posted:So it is literally liberalism then? From what I've seen (and I think we've established that I don't really know what I'm talking about here, but from what I've seen....) there's a current of really dismissive "idiot masses" stuff in a lot of this. I may have accidentally wandered in the anarcho-nihilist part of town or something, but I saw a lot of that bullshit about "sheeple", "complacent masses", blah blah. You're going to struggle to convince me that you're fighting for the class liberation while you're busy calling the working class idiots in the same sentence. Weirdly, I've also seen just enough talk about "patronising intellectuals" in a history of the Makhnovists that 've been reading to make me suspect there's a strong current of anti-intellectualism in there. This is something that I'm struggling with - if you're dismissing the masses as stupid and complacent, and dismissing academics as intellectuals, and of course you're dismissing the bourg as the boug..... whose side are you on? forkboy84 posted:If you've never read it, Peter Marshall's Demanding The Impossible is a really good, interesting & informative read. Big hefty book though, my copy is pretty dog-eared from jus re-reading it. And if you don't care about the rakes of stuff on the forerunners to anarchism you can just skip those chapters right to when he gets into William Godwin. Though I thought the stuff on the Diggers & the French Revolution was worth reading. communism bitch fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Oct 31, 2015 |
# ? Oct 31, 2015 22:10 |
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Oberleutnant posted:This is something that I'm struggling with - if you're dismissing the masses as stupid and complacent, and dismissing academics as intellectuals, and of course you're dismissing the bourg as the boug..... whose side are you on? Your own, presumably.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 22:14 |
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Oberleutnant posted:You're going to struggle to convince me that you're fighting for the class liberation while you're busy calling the working class idiots in the same sentence. To be fair, that's something of a UKMT standard too.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 22:20 |
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Welp, some bloke got stabbed on my street last night, about half an hour after I had been in this exact spot on my way back from the shop. http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Man-critically-injured-stabbed-near-Uppingham/story-28089903-detail/story.html When someone linked me I thought "I wonder if I know where this is" and yes I do because it's a couple hundred feet down the road from me.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 22:20 |
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It strikes me as a complete excuse to do gently caress all except live the lifestyle you've dreamed of since you listen to Mediocre Generica when you were 15. In my experience a good squat served a variety of purposes, it made a political statement about the absurdity of housing going empty, it provided housing for people who perhaps otherwise couldn't afford it and hell it even often did up the building a bit and thus in an absurd way increased its value. You can be involved in this productively and not be aware of the theory but you are still directly engaging in it or you can be someone who wants to show up for a bit and smoke some crack but probably disappear when it starts to get cold, in the best squat I lived in we didn't care as long as you respected the house fund.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 22:24 |
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Oberleutnant posted:I may have accidentally wandered in the anarcho-nihilist part of town or something, but I saw a lot of that bullshit about "sheeple", "complacent masses", blah blah.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 22:25 |
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Addressing class consciousness has been a major study since those days and continues to this day.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 22:27 |
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We're all middle class now.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 22:29 |
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Guavanaut posted:Didn't Marx have a whole thing about how the masses lack class consciousness, the main difference being that he thought it was somehow fixable even when the bourg own most of the media?
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 22:30 |
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I feel there is a difference between "Come on you pillocks" and "pshaw, they'll never accomplish anything" Being irritated at people acting against their interests is different from believing them to be irredeemable idiots by virtue of their class.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 22:34 |
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crispix posted:If any of the regular Question Time goons would like to watch early 90s TV sensation Ghostwatch, we're watching at 10pm on 90s technology IRC (#ukgoons, synirc). I remember this first time around, it's the one with Parkie and Craig Charles. Scared 12 year old me.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 22:39 |
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OwlFancier posted:Your own, presumably. I don't take sides; I rise above petty squabbles by sitting on the fence
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 22:40 |
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Squalitude posted:Really weird to see the cover of today's Mail is cheering the return of the final British Guantanamo Bay detainee. It's like they occasionally have these anti-right wing moments that seem to come out of nowhere- you know, like when they revealed that David Cameron hosed a dead pig. Bit late on this, but some of the regulars who buy the Mail at work had a bit of a puzzled look on their face when they saw the release of a bearded brown-skinned man being celebrated.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 22:46 |
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OwlFancier posted:What's "post left"? Left wing without the lyrics and a kinda quiet, louder, louder dynamic about it?!
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 22:59 |
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Renaissance Robot posted:I don't take sides; I rise above petty squabbles by sitting on the fence You are Yvette Cooper and I claim my five pounds
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 23:03 |
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Squalitude posted:Really weird to see the cover of today's Mail is cheering the return of the final British Guantanamo Bay detainee. So in a surprising twist, not actually that weird.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 23:17 |
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Mister Adequate posted:You are Yvette Cooper and I claim my five pounds If I triangulated any harder I'd be an ordnance survey cartographer
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 23:22 |
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Oberleutnant posted:From what I've seen (and I think we've established that I don't really know what I'm talking about here, but from what I've seen....) there's a current of really dismissive "idiot masses" stuff in a lot of this. I may have accidentally wandered in the anarcho-nihilist part of town or something, but I saw a lot of that bullshit about "sheeple", "complacent masses", blah blah. You're going to struggle to convince me that you're fighting for the class liberation while you're busy calling the working class idiots in the same sentence. Weirdly, I've also seen just enough talk about "patronising intellectuals" in a history of the Makhnovists that 've been reading to make me suspect there's a strong current of anti-intellectualism in there. This is something that I'm struggling with - if you're dismissing the masses as stupid and complacent, and dismissing academics as intellectuals, and of course you're dismissing the bourg as the boug..... whose side are you on? The side of those who are Awake and Aware and generally Correct Thinkers etc. The siren song of UNIQUE AND EXCLUSIVE ACCESS TO THE TRUTH calls thinkers of every stripe : ( EDIT: Re Guantanamo - for some that is seen as being associated with Tony Blair, as all that stuff really got rolling under his watch. So there's an angle there for people who might otherwise not be pro that type of thing.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 23:30 |
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Mister Adequate posted:Welp, some bloke got stabbed on my street last night, about half an hour after I had been in this exact spot on my way back from the shop. Oddly enough, until last year I used to work at a place on Layton road.
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# ? Oct 31, 2015 23:39 |
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I've been thinking about the Tories suddenly focusing on the unelected nature of the Lords and (aside from the fact that they only decided this was a problem when they didn't get their own way and that the super-unelected hereditary peers mostly sit on the Conservative benches) if it was elected by a proportionate system they'd have around 37% of the house, so they'd still have lost. Unless it was proportional to the HoC share, in which case what's the point of them existing, or they want another FPTP system. Or if they're just repeating it endlessly to justify totally hamstringing them rather than doing any sort of actual reform, of course. XMNN fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Oct 31, 2015 |
# ? Oct 31, 2015 23:46 |
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XMNN posted:I've been thinking about the Tories suddenly focusing on the unelected nature of the Lords and (aside from the fact that they only decided this was a problem when they didn't get their own way and that the super-unelected hereditary peers mostly sit on the Conservative benches) if it was elected by a proportionate system they'd have around 37% of the house, so they'd still have lost. It's a credible sounding complaint, that's why it's focused on. The details of what the reformed version would look like are always kept vague because that way you can't be attacked on them.
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# ? Nov 1, 2015 00:01 |
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Perhaps we can argue that the lords are good because they exist to oppose radicalism? Which we wouldn't at all want, would we?
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# ? Nov 1, 2015 00:12 |
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To be honest I'm pretty OK with the lords opposing radical ideas when they weren't in the manifesto, whatever definition of radicalism you care to use. Doubly so when the party involved actively loving lies about them to get elected.
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# ? Nov 1, 2015 00:22 |
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I was sort of thinking about the idea that radicalism is the greatest threat to BRITISH VALUES we've ever encountered and must be opposed at every turn. Except when the conservatives do it.
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# ? Nov 1, 2015 00:27 |
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It looks like the restiveness of the Lords has caused the government to back down on some of the most egregious bits of its new spying bill. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/31/theresa-may-backtracks-on-internet-snooping
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# ? Nov 1, 2015 00:28 |
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Another point towards Boris.
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# ? Nov 1, 2015 00:38 |
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We need a new thread for Nerdvember.
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# ? Nov 1, 2015 01:04 |
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# ? May 11, 2024 08:15 |
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Tesseraction posted:We need a new thread for Nerdvember. Here you go: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3749435
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# ? Nov 1, 2015 01:19 |