USPOL Oct: So this is how the thread dies: with a Star Wars derail

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USPOL Oct: So this is how the thread dies: with a Star Wars derail

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Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Stereotype posted:

Volkswagen didn't break any laws because environmental protection laws are hilarious bullshit that have never and will never be enforceable

Someone else comment on this in the new thread. I am way more interested in this than whether Jeb! backers want to throw more money into fires

Estimates are that between 1400 and 5100 people died from the added air pollution from this and we can't do anything?

VW killing people by pumping out toxic gases. What would their founder think of this behavior?

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 13:15

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 12:04

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Major overhaul in criminal justice being announced now. Guess they got Grassely to sign off. Ideas they were kicking around were all major improvements in sentencing so we will see what they roll out here

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 15:16

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Biden has announced he will not be participating in the Dem debate. Apparently it is news that a guy not running for president won't be in the presidential debate

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 15:20

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

zoux posted:

Until he gives his Shermanesque statement, he's assumed to be running. How else is the media going to horse race it?

Talk about the guy who is making it a competitive race?

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 15:49

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Coatlicue posted:

How does this keep happening? Why on earth, as a sitting house member, would you record such a video? Like I'm not even mad at the hypocrisy of regulating other people's marriages while cheating, I just want to know how all our elected leaders are so idiotic that they keep having leaks of that sort of material.

Because he is really loving stupid. That's not meant as a glib answer, the man has a short term focus, a zero sum mentality, regards anything but direct aggression as weakness, requires everything in explicitly direct black and white terms, has low impulse control, and delusions of grandeur. Wrapped together it is the ur-example of "loving stupid". He's a playground bully that fell into office, and he's not even a top dog bully, he's the one who has a chip on his shoulder because he's only number 4 or 5.

The fun stuff isn't the sex tape of him banging his secretary. It is a shitload of texts and emails about getting paid off for things related to the casino board and various deals (including the road one) the state has been making. Sex scandals are survivable, getting caught extorting people when you got called out for doing the same in Ohio is the kiss of death

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 17:38

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

HootTheOwl posted:

Yes it is? Super Pacs don't cover everything. Wasn't Walker floating five-digit credit card balances?

With 27% Interest, yes.

Rubio's personal finances are similarly hosed iirc

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 17:40

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

So why is Trey Gowdy leaving congress.

No word yet, and the "announcement" wasn't from him, it was from Rep Flemming, though afaik he hasn't said it was wrong

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 17:41

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

Guesses?

Haley as VP pick, he runs for governor in the Special election?

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 17:42

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

That seems awfully -- premature don't you think?

Very. But other than that or "I want to spend my days in a beach drinking rum" I can't think of why he would retire.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 18:15

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Azuth0667 posted:

I don't get this these guys are supposed millionaires how do they get that hosed over an election? Also the party of personal financial responsibility .

Walker is poor as poo poo, he was only making 40k a year until recently*

Rubio I don't know about

* yes 40k a year is quite good by the American median but compared to most of the multimillionaires in the government he's drat poor

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 18:17

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

Can we hope for some sort of personal scandal?

If t won't blow up for another 2 years, why indicate one now?

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 18:18

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

pathetic little tramp posted:

Fried Chicken, what was on the Mcmillin sex text, like specifically? Inquiring minds and all.

Video clip of him of him loving apparently

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 18:25

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

New USA Today/Suffolk poll, Martin O'Malley is polling at 0% percent

For comparison, Larry Lessig is at 0.47% and Lincoln Chafee is at 0.7%

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 18:35

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

NRCC decided to go with a fundraising pitch of "give us money so we can defend the 2nd amendment" shortly after this news broke, which seems ghoulish even for them

Remember, it is in bad taste to discuss gun control as something we need this soon after a tragedy, but perfectly appropriate to raise money and discuss gun control as something we don't need this soon after a tragedy

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 21:27

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

chitoryu12 posted:

I'll say what I said the last time: firearms is the only subject I've seen where the people who actually have a deep understanding of the subject matter are called crazy thugs if they try to participate.

Except you don't have a deep understanding of the subject matter. You don't even know the subject. You know minutia about devices, but the subject is public policy. Whining about a magazine vs a clip is irrelevant to the objective, methodology, and effectiveness of a policy proposal. It would come into play in getting the legalese in any regulation or bill correct to achieve the policy end, but by then the policy debate would already have been hashed out.

On top of that, I can think of far far worse that has happened to subject matter experts on topics. Or did you miss what happened to the women who talked about having had abortions yesterday? Or the scientists sued over climate change. Or the cops who come out for police reform and end up imprisoned in asylums.

You have developed a great depth of trivial knowledge, kudos for you. But don't expect anyone to let you pass said trivia as actual knowledge, or go along with your self pity for your trivia not being shown the respect your deluded ego thinks you deserve

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 21:41

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Milk Malk posted:

You say that, but if you're being honest with yourself you'll realize that the first step in the Holocaust, before the deportations and forced resettlement, before the concentration camps and ethnic cleansing, was disarming the populace. It's not that big of a stretch.

You know Hitler actually loosened gun laws, right?

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 22:02

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

pathetic little tramp posted:

Shooter was a 20-year old male, so yeah probably not black pill guy because he had to be about 30.

I'll regret this, but what is black pill? I've heard of red pill and iron pill but not black

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 22:13

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Milk Malk posted:

You know the statistics say that an increase the the availability of guns actually reduces violent crime? And that Hitler, though a reprehensible human being and a horrible, horrible racist, was actually a leader who wanted the best for his people? Don't try to cast me as a holocaust apologist either, in this analogy the American people would be the Jews--castrated, emasculated, and defenseless.

Look, gun control is not the answer here. Seriously, I can provide some real data if you still think gun control is going to help the American people. I deal in facts, not emotional bullshit that always comes up after a tragedy.

"I deal in facts not emotional bullshit!" As a response to it being pointed out you were lying as you invoked the emotional hyperbole of the holocaust, in a post where you make an emotional plea invoking castration

3/10 low energy weak effort. Go study Tolberone Triangle and put some effort into your trolling

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 22:19

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

zoux posted:

Un-gun related but Hillary is going to be greeting fellow kids on SNL this weekend. I'm sure it will be too embarrassing to watch.

Obama did it in 07 and no one said boo.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2015 22:20

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Armyman25 posted:

Trying to ban guns would be as effective as banning drugs.

How is that a counter argument? Making guns insanely expensive would go a vast way towards cutting down gun crime. If you have the money to buy a black market gun, you have enough money you aren't going to go and try and rob someone with it.

# ¿ Oct 2, 2015 01:01

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Thump! posted:

Shhhhh, sh sh sh. Please don't engage with Armyman25. That caped lunatic is not someone who can be convinced. It's as futile as telling LeJackle that maybe everyone doesn't need to be strapped to the teeth 24/7.

No this ignorant poo poo just pisses me off. I'm pro gun rights but why do the other assholes trying to defend it have to offer up such stupid as poo poo arguments?

# ¿ Oct 2, 2015 01:40

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

LeJackal posted:

The thing is, you can make guns for a couple bucks with stuff from the hardware store. They won't be as pretty, but they will be lethal.

You can grow/cook/brew your own drug of choice too. Funny how few people do it and the price stays high

# ¿ Oct 2, 2015 01:42

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Armyman25 posted:

Ok, what's your argument in favor of gun rights?

"Second Amendment, gently caress off"

quote:

What do you believe the US's gun laws should be?

follow the aircraft/automobile style of safety regulation instead of attempting restriction/prohibition, combined with a very robust social safety net to reduce driving factors towards criminality and violence

# ¿ Oct 2, 2015 01:45

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Armyman25 posted:

Actually, making guns expensive and hard to get a hold of incentivizes illegal gun manufacture. Right now there isn't a market for homemade firearms due to their easy and legal availability. If they are banned, it creates a market for people to start knocking together homemade guns and selling them to criminals. The same people who cook meth in rural areas, small towns, and trailer parks are smart enough to figure out how to start making homemade guns and selling them under the table.

A law banning a thing doesn't make the thing go away. It didn't stop people from selling boot leg liquor, from selling illegal drugs, or from selling bootleg movies.

A) it makes them extremely expensive, which is why the drug comparison is terrible
B) unlike drugs guns are not a consumed good, nor do they generate compulsion to continue to consume, depressing demand for manufacturing and thus increasing scarcity and cost

Making a gun cost an arm and a leg means they don't get used in the crimes because if you have the money you don't need to do the crime

So if you are going to try "Actually..." Don't gently caress up Econ 101.

Fried Chicken fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Oct 2, 2015

# ¿ Oct 2, 2015 01:55

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Armyman25 posted:

Aircraft and automobile safety regulations are designed to keep the users safe and do a good job at that. Firearms are already very safe for the users and fall under the same liability laws in regard to hazards posed to their users. Unless you think that auto manufacturers should be on the hook for speeding tickets since they make cars than can go faster than 70 mph?

Ok so you aren't even remotely arguing on good faith, got it

Hint: the bulk of regulation on those are to protect the public sphere, not the user.

# ¿ Oct 2, 2015 01:57

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

So though the names of the victims haven't been released yet, what has leaked is that the 7 wounded were all women. Which is an odd coincidence unless he was targeting them.

# ¿ Oct 2, 2015 15:53

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Nonsense posted:

Most SA gun evangelists claim to be Democrats they just say borderline murderous things about a sitting woman Senator from the Democratic Party every chance offered.

Go to a union meeting in a red state and you see the same dynamic at play. Cultural issues way over ride economic or association ones, which is a lot of how the GOP is so strong there.

# ¿ Oct 2, 2015 15:56

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Business wing of the GOP gearing up to nuke the conservative wing

quote:

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce plans to shatter its previous political spending records during the 2016 elections in a campaign aimed not only at defeating Democrats but also at winning back the soul of the Republican Party.

The nation�s largest business lobby has set out to exceed its $70 million tab from the 2014 elections with as much as $100 million in campaign spending � a huge outlay that reflects the business community�s determination to prevail in its ongoing war with GOP conservatives.

On the other side, right-wing groups also view the elections as a crucial path to victory in their tactical and policy brawls with House and Senate GOP leaders. And conservatives believe they have new wind at their backs now after scoring a major win with Speaker John A. Boehner�s surprise resignation.

The goal of the chamber and other like-minded industry organizations is clear: Elect business-friendly Republicans in contested primaries to strengthen their hand during policy debates on the Hill. Some of business� top targets in 2016 will be right-wing, tea party candidates, the types that have bucked the corporate agenda in Congress by supporting government shutdowns, opposing an immigration overhaul and attempting to close the Export-Import Bank.

�We made it quite clear last cycle: The gang that wants to shut down the government, that�s a clear contrast to what the business community agrees is best for economic growth,� says Scott Reed, the chamber�s senior political strategist.

The Business-Industry Political Action Committee, now under the leadership of former representative and moderate Republican Jim Gerlach of Pennsylvania, also plans to outpace its previous investments in campaigns.

Though Gerlach won�t put a price tag on BIPAC�s plans, he says the goal is to increase its previous hauls, which in 2012 hit about $500,000 and in 2014 about $140,000.

�There�s going to be a lot of important House races in the �16 cycle, and there�s no doubt in open seat situations in particular, there may be situations where business is at odds with conservative groups,� Gerlach says. �And that�s OK. That�s what the process is for.�

The chamber this year launched $3 million in election ads by mid-summer as it aimed to cut through the noise in battleground states that will decide not only the next president but, of more relevance to the chamber, control of the Senate.

�The chamber is now operating in a 24-month cycle,� Reed says. �That�s new.� He adds, �This is the earliest we�ve ever spent money.�

Conservative organizations believe they, too, are within reach of stacking Congress with more kindred spirits.

The business community�s legislative priorities include expanding free trade and a tax overhaul � which puts industry in accord with conservative groups. But pitting it against the right wing, business also wants immigration law changes, supports Ex-Im and fiercely opposes government shutdowns. Conservative organizations warn that if business groups focus too much on shutdowns and Ex-Im, that could put their shared goals in peril.

�The candidates we�re going to identify and support will be the best candidates to get you regulatory relief, corporate tax reform, free trade,� says David McIntosh, a former House member from Indiana who now runs the conservative Club for Growth, which derides Ex-Im as �crony capitalism.� �If they make Ex-Im a litmus test, I think that doesn�t serve the business community at all, and we�ll fight them,� he says.

Early Starts

The chamber and other business-aligned organizations, taking their cues from ideological conservative groups that have worked to oust or boost candidates in primaries, no longer want to wait until general elections.

�It used to be the business community would hold off in primary situations,� Gerlach says. �Now there is more and more a recognition that the election for some districts is the primary.�

BIPAC is looking at the open Nevada seat being vacated by Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, as well as Senate races in Illinois and Ohio.

The chamber�s early ad buys, so far, include support for incumbent Republican Sens. Patrick J. Toomey of Pennsylvania, John McCain of Arizona and Mark S. Kirk of Illinois, who is spearheading the effort to renew Ex-Im. The group also funded spots in support of Republican Rep. Joe Heck�s effort in the Nevada contest to replace Reid.

The chamber, in a roundabout way, is helping Ohio Republican Sen. Rob Portman by running ads against Democrat Ted Strickland, a former governor, who is in a primary battle for the chance to take on Portman. Stickland is considered a stronger opponent for the incumbent senator.

Many of those races don�t pit business against ideological conservatives � protecting Toomey is also a priority for such organizations as the Club for Growth � but that belies some of the coming vitriol, especially in House contests where both sides are sizing up their potential fields.

Business stakeholders, for example, are eyeing primary challengers to Rep. Tim Huelskamp, a Kansas Republican, who has taken a conservative hard line against such industry priorities as the Export-Import Bank and supports cutting off all government funding in order to deprive Planned Parenthood of taxpayer money.

Huelskamp�s primary opponents include Roger Marshall, a doctor, and Alan LaPolice, a student-retention specialist at a community college.

McIntosh says his group would go all out against the business community to support Huelskamp, who twice voted against Boehner over the speakership.

The club has made just one endorsement in a House race � offering its support for Jim Banks, a conservative candidate to replace Rep. Marlin Stutzman, R-Ind., who is running for Senate. But, McIntosh says, the group will weigh in on many more races.

�In the House, you have a leadership that have repeatedly failed to deliver on the promises to conservatives, so the goal there is to elect more members who are going to put a stake in the ground,� McIntosh says.

Conservatives, he says, �are increasingly getting frustrated by the speaker and leadership saying, �Oh, sorry, we cut a deal with Nancy Pelosi.� �

Recruits Needed

Conservative groups are stepping up their �scouting� of potential candidates, McIntosh says.

But so now are folks on the side of business.

�The business community has to get out there and try and recruit people that are going to be good,� says Kathryn Lehman, a Republican lobbyist at Holland & Knight, who chairs her firm�s PAC. �You can�t wait until you�ve come down to the general election. It�s more work, and it takes more planning. But your money is, arguably, more important and you give yourself more options, if you get involved in the front end.�

The business community�s 2016 election effort won�t only be about money.

Gerlach, who took the helm of BIPAC this year, says he�s making voter education and grassroots organization among corporate employees a priority � encouraging workers to register to vote and to show up at the polls.

�There�s a lot of recognition that it�s such a hugely important election cycle and who gets elected matters,� Gerlach says. �But I�m still not sure yet how much employees understand the importance of their actual participation in the process, so that�s going to be our job to educate them.�

Companies that find themselves on the front lines of the business-versus-conservatives battle say their employees are increasingly tuned in and motivated to donate.

�Our employees certainly are more interested than they have been in the past, and they�ve been very interested in the past,� says Gordon Johndroe, a Boeing vice president for communications who previously was deputy White House press secretary and National Security Council spokesman during the George W. Bush administration.

Boeing, one of the Export-Import Bank�s biggest customers, has been lobbying for its renewal. The company�s PAC is the fifth biggest corporate PAC, with nearly $700,000 in donations so far this cycle, according to the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics.

�We are not a single-issue PAC, but in general we support candidates who support issues of importance to Boeing,� Johndroe says. �We�re going to look for candidates who take a pragmatic approach and understand that we work in a global business environment. We need Congress to be supportive of American manufacturers if we�re going to compete against overseas rivals.�

Of course, Republicans aren�t the only ones with internal strife, as Reed of the chamber points out. The outcome of Democratic primaries, such as in the Ohio or Florida Senate contests, may position pro-business Republicans as strong or weak.

In the Florida Senate race to replace Republican Marco Rubio, who is running for president, hard-core liberal Rep. Alan Grayson is running in the Democratic primary against Rep. Patrick Murphy. Business groups say they hope their preferred candidates benefit from such divisions.

�We�re all wearing down our knee pads praying he�s the nominee,� Reed says of Grayson.

# ¿ Oct 2, 2015 16:18

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Dr. Red Ranger posted:

Did anyone see anything to that effect in his 4chan thread? I only got so far in before it started looking too much like a games thread.

Apparently the source for the "all women" thing was a weirdly written HuffPo article where it was all of the victims at one hospital, but it isn't clear they all went to the same hospital.

And I guess it isn't counting the guy who got shot 7 times trying to stop him

Law enforcement just announced the guy left behind a multi page note at the scene; they described it as "a philosophy of hate". So we will get some answers

# ¿ Oct 2, 2015 16:42

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Amid the global economic slowdown, the recovery now relies on cash strapped US consumers

We are so hosed

# ¿ Oct 2, 2015 16:47

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Oh and Arne Duncan is stepping down from Education Secretary, John B King will be nominated as replacement

# ¿ Oct 2, 2015 16:48

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Tangentially related to US politics:

Troy Newman is president of Operation Rescue (the extremist organization linked with the guy who murdered George Tiller) and is a board member and co-founder of the Center for Medical Progress (the group behind the bullshit Planned Parenthood videos)

He is also being deported from Australia because his rhetoric and tactics there (the same that pushed for Tiller's murder) have resulted in him being labeled a threat to Australian women

:australia:

# ¿ Oct 2, 2015 16:54

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Feds reporting the shooter had body armor, 3 pistols, 1 rifle, 5 extra magazines.

# ¿ Oct 2, 2015 17:27

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Another Person posted:

Hey US,

Stop shooting people at school,

signed, UK.

Hey UK

Stop loving dead pigs

signed, US

# ¿ Oct 2, 2015 17:46

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Iron Twinkie posted:

Can't wait for talking heads to all agree that consumers are just being lazy.

Edit- basically this rant from the WSJ back from June.

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2015/06/02/grand-central-a-letter-to-stingy-american-consumers

Hahaha holy gently caress is this real? It's like "Luck Duckies" all over again

# ¿ Oct 2, 2015 17:48

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Trump gaining ground, Carson and Fiorina fading, Rubio stumbling, Bush a tiny step up, Cruz a longer growth trend

Can't dump the Trump!

# ¿ Oct 2, 2015 19:20

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Doccers posted:

IMHO the "Golden Age" of guns was the late 1800's to the 1930's, because that's when the lions share of development took place. But everyone's got their own opinion on that I suppose. After that, most of the inventions were really just simplifying manufacturing processes.

Personally I think the 1400s-1600s were a really interesting time because they were just really figuring out the base principles and tried some crazy poo poo in their experiments. Extra crazy really, because much of that was before the scientific method so it was a lot of individual craftsmen just trying stuff. The revolution we saw in the 1800s is amazing, but much a result of alternative advances in manufacturing (eg cost efficient production of smokeless powder meant certain designs are now possible whereas residue from black powder seized them up)

Interesting though experiment - look at the development and wild changes in form, function, use, and design from the arquebus to the modern field rifle. Now think about where drones may end up if you assume the predator is the equivalent of the hook gun in terms of development

# ¿ Oct 2, 2015 20:09

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Rhesus Pieces posted:

Which org is that?

Pew just put a poll up with Bush in 6th place at 4% and I cackled with glee.

Demos I assume, I cribbed it from Matt Bruening

# ¿ Oct 2, 2015 20:11

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Pew research poll results

Trump - 25
Carson 16
Rubio 8
Fiorina 8
Cruz 6
Bush 4
Huckabee 2
Paul 2

Go home Huck. Your large sons miss you

# ¿ Oct 2, 2015 20:25

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 12:04

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

MaxxBot posted:

I wonder if this has to has to do with how Trump seems to be the only candidate able to keep himself in the media during the long lull between the debates. It seems like the only time the other candidates are mentioned are when Jeb! or Carson say something really crazy/stupid.

Here's the interesting thing to me - it suggests that Trump has a ceiling of ~32%. Ok, that means he will not be the candidate, which keeps with what everyone expected. But it also suggests he also has a floor of ~24%. That would be what is upending all the models and why he hangs in there, usually the floor for a politician is much larger relatives wit their ceiling, so they either never get a head of steam or they fall off the map when they stumble. Trump breaks from that, and thus the baked in assumptions of the models. It is also what fucks the GOP, because a guy who commands a quarter of the base is a guy who gets to name terms and you don't talk back.

:getin:

# ¿ Oct 2, 2015 20:31

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USPOL Oct: So this is how the thread dies: with a Star Wars derail

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