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Cross-posting from the chat thread = probably fits better here. I picked up an '88 Olds digital dash to potentially use in my '70 Cutlass. It's actually pretty simple. For the most part, it uses dicrete standard GM sensors: oil pressure and water temp are the usual sensors one would use for analog gauges, and the speedo is GM VSS. There is one exception. The tachometer is driven not from ignition pulses (as the analog version on this same car is), but from the ALDL data stream. I don't speak ALDL. I had a guyy lines up long ago to build me an adapter that would take in tach pulses form my HEI and then output a fake ALDL data stream with the RPM block having actual data. I was very poor at the time, and missed that opportunity. Does anyone here speak GM ALDL? I got a bunch of info from GM-ECM pages, but I can't wrap my head around it. My next best option is just wiring up a GM-ECM with the most minimal inputs necessary and stuffing it under the seat. That may be the cheapest//simplest way to go. This same '70 Cutlass will eventually get a Mgasquirt, or, now that I've just learned about it, a Speeduino. I've got a '79 Cadillac Seville port-injected manifold (they used Olds small-blocks) and a Ford 460 throttle body (they look cool, and are more than big enough. Nice TPS as well.) I just need the adapter between the two, and come up with a fuel system I like. I actually have an original MS v2.2. I built that, and the v1.01 when they came out. Neither has been on a car, but respond properly on the MegaStim. Poor thing has been gathering dust as I procrastinate...
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Oct 6, 2015 22:36
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Darchangel posted:Cross-posting from the chat thread = probably fits better here. The tach signal from ALDL, from what I remember, is pretty simple. It says a lot when the Windows 98 executable for reading the signal is only like 3 megs, and it also had temperature, desired idle/current RPM, etc. Even with my basic, basic skills, I'm pretty sure I could whip something up that was overbloated and required an entire Arduino Uno to run, but the update to the actual tach would probably be a second or two behind 
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Oct 6, 2015 22:50
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Three megs what the poo poo? I've shipped enterprise software that was smaller than that. A Uno has a whopping 32KB (minus 512 bytes for the bootloader) to play around in.  ALDL looks pretty interesting. It looks like the baud rate and some of the formats change depending on the year and make of the car, but it shouldn't be too hard to pin it down. http://www.aldlcable.com/ I'm guessing an '88 Olds would be 160 baud 5 volt. I don't know enough about RS232 to say if it's easy past that. http://wbo2.com/~techedge.com.au/vehicle/aldl160/160serial.htm Seat Safety Switch fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Oct 6, 2015 |
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Oct 6, 2015 22:52
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I wrote an entire HTTP server that fits in 16kb
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Oct 6, 2015 23:03
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Noisymime, I would like to know what your background (EE? ME?) and how it was that you decided to make an EFI system out of an Arduino. Was there something about MS-EFI that you didn't like? Were you just trying to see if it could be done? I looked at the website, and it says Speeduino can run fuel and spark on a four cylinder engine. Can a Speeduino run a V-8 for fuel only? Spark only? Could two Speeduinos run together on a V-8 to run fuel and spark?
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Oct 7, 2015 02:48
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From what I read it will do batch fuel and either a distributor single coil spark, or a wasted spark setup, on a v8.
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Oct 7, 2015 06:55
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PBCrunch posted:Noisymime, I would like to know what your background (EE? ME?) and how it was that you decided to make an EFI system out of an Arduino. Was there something about MS-EFI that you didn't like? Were you just trying to see if it could be done? My background is in comp sci, but have been mucking about with electronics since I can remember (Dad is an EE). Software is still definitely my strong point. I did my first MS install back when the MS3 first came out (I was on the original waiting list for the first batch) and I still have that setup on my turbo Cortina. It's a great setup and I don't have any technical problems with it or MS Though it not being open source irks me). The internals of these things have always fascinated me and, to be brutally honest, using the arduino originally came about because someone bet me $50 an arduino wasn't powerful enough to do it. After I took his $50, I started getting a lot of questions from either electronics people who were interested in cars or car people who were interested in electronics. Speeduino was developed after that to try and make something that is both capable enough for the average guy wanting an aftermarket setup but that was also simple enough in its design that they could compile and modify it themselves with only a little more knowledge than needed for a standard arduino sketch. PBCrunch posted:I looked at the website, and it says Speeduino can run fuel and spark on a four cylinder engine. Can a Speeduino run a V-8 for fuel only? Spark only? Could two Speeduinos run together on a V-8 to run fuel and spark? Which website were you looking at as that definitely needs updating... Up to 8 cylinders are supported in batch + wasted spark (Excluding 5 cylinders and odd fire engines).
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Oct 7, 2015 07:42
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I've wanted to build a megasquirt setup on something since they first came out, but my electronics knowledge ends with "I know what the symbols mean on a wiring diagram, and I might be able to tell you what a resistor is based on the stripes. Silver or gold one the end mean they are + or -a certain percentage?" In any case, I will be reading this thread in a vain attempt to absorb as much information as possible that I will probably never use.
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Oct 7, 2015 08:25
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noisymime posted:my turbo Cortina. Are you posting from the grave lol? turbocharging a corty seems like a good way to kill yourself. would something like a raspberry pi work as an ecu? cheap and available.
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Oct 7, 2015 08:40
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Is real time barometric corrections using a second sensor something you're going to implement? It'd be nice for NA engines.
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Oct 7, 2015 09:43
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Big Daddy Keynes posted:Are you posting from the grave lol? turbocharging a corty seems like a good way to kill yourself. I'd have to look closely at it, but I suspect there's a few critical things missing from the rPi such as an ADC (Analog signal input) etc. I suspect it might also be lacking enough IO, but I'm not super familiar with it so I could be wrong. Could also have to run on the bare metal, or at least very low level with a real time operating system (RTOS). You couldn't simply throw raspian on and run the ECU daemon  As for the Corty, it's a lot of fun but not a death trap. It's still the original 45 year old 1600cc engine, just with a few additions, so it's not a monster. That said, the car only weighs about 840kg dry.
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Oct 7, 2015 21:56
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mafoose posted:Is real time barometric corrections using a second sensor something you're going to implement? Currently it's implemented by doing a read of the MAP sensor when the unit is first powered on. That way it knows atmospheric pressure (at least for where the car was at start time) and so you can do barometric corrections from that. The obvious flaw is if you're changing altitudes (and therefore atmospheric pressure) dramatically during a drive. Short answer is that using 2 sensors or a dual sensor is certainly possible, but not currently implemented.
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Oct 7, 2015 21:59
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Is this a feature that is possibly in the cards? Most of the cruises in my area are up a mountain with something like a 5200ft elevation change. It wreaks havoc on the NA cars. If I use alpha-n, can I use the existing sensor for real time baro like MS?
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Oct 8, 2015 20:21
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noisymime posted:Yeah, the pin header is definitely all good for high-z injectors, officially up to 2 per channel. The injector channels have 2 pins each assigned to them so the current is split between them. The next revision of v0.4 board beefs up some of the traces, but I've tested 3x 12 Ohm injectors on it with a bog standard IDE cable and it was fine (4x injectors burned the trace on the board). That pin header IS a problem for the high current PWM outputs though. I'm thinking that the next version of the board will switch to using a molex connector or something for those. I'm looking at your schematic and wondered why you went with low-side switches instead of high-side switches? Is it to prevent grounding out an injector causing it to stick open? Is there some other reason? I went with high-side for my application because that's what the default wiring does: all the grounds are switched.
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Oct 9, 2015 11:34
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:I'm looking at your schematic and wondered why you went with low-side switches instead of high-side switches? Is it to prevent grounding out an injector causing it to stick open? Is there some other reason? I went with high-side for my application because that's what the default wiring does: all the grounds are switched. I'm assuming you mean for the auxiliary outputs (idle, boost etc)? With high side drivers your either need to be running the noisy 12v feed from the car all over the board or adding a dedicated 12v or 5v regulator. That adds cost and complexity in the design. With the low side drivers you can simply tap into the ground fill that's placed across the whole board for your MOSFET source. At some point I will likely add at least 1 high side driver, but it will be relatively low current compared to the big low side MOSFETs.
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Oct 9, 2015 12:13
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I have never monkeyed with EFI in my life, but MS has always seemed very interesting to me. I worked in mobile electronics for ten years, so I do have some experience with electronics and wiring. I have a 1993 Toyota pickup with a 22RE and a manual transmission. I'd like to convert to tunable EFI and eliminate the mechanical distributor. How do I start figuring out what I need for Speeduino? My TPS has a four-wire connector on it; the documentation on Speeduino.com says I need a three wire TPS. From what I can the truck has a MAF sensor, but no MAP. How do I figure out the details of my crank trigger wheel? The information I have seen says that my truck fires the injectors in two batches of two. Is there any advantage to adding the extra wiring to fire the injectors sequentially (my reading suggests that sequential injection's true value is in emissions)? How would one go about finding the details of the factory IAT and CLT? Where can I buy a board? The only references I've found want to sell 10+ boards, which negates the whole low cost aspect.
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Oct 9, 2015 16:19
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Find out if your truck runs VAST. If so I just MS'd a 4runner that had it. You have two choices, run a VR conditioner and wire it to the dizzy, that will be your crank signal. Or you don't run a conditioner and use the VAST's ECU output signal (clean 5v square) for your crank input. Don't bother running the VAST's coil driver section. It thinks it is smarter than the ECU and will not give you 100% control, especially during cranking. You can use a cheap 4 pin hei module to drive the coil. There's a member named edc_atl on the speeduino forum that sells them stateside. Otherwise there is a speeduino shop but shipping from Australia is $$$.
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Oct 10, 2015 06:07
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Mafoose is there any benefit to megasquirting the m30b34 if I'm not going FI yet? From what I'm reading about doing the 5 speed swap with the 4HP22-EH there's some fuckery in the stock ecu that could make things difficult. How hard would it be to upgrade a ms set up from NA to FI? Obviously a new tune is required but I'm not sure if I'll need any other sensors, etc.
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Oct 10, 2015 14:45
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rscott posted:Mafoose is there any benefit to megasquirting the m30b34 if I'm not going FI yet? From what I'm reading about doing the 5 speed swap with the 4HP22-EH there's some fuckery in the stock ecu that could make things difficult. How hard would it be to upgrade a ms set up from NA to FI? Obviously a new tune is required but I'm not sure if I'll need any other sensors, etc. I don't know if vehicles in your market are different but FWIW I've manualised several M30 cars and never had any issue. If it's an E34/32 you might get a trans warning message on the dash; jumping two terminals fixes this as it's basically just an 'everything is ok' circuit that the engine DME monitors for continuity.
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Oct 10, 2015 19:30
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It's an e28 but when you swapped the transmission did you swap to a manual ecu as well?
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Oct 10, 2015 19:43
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I've done an E34, E28 and E24. I only swapped a manual ECU in on the 24 and it didn't seem to make any difference, I was able to interchange it with the auto one and couldn't find any difference in the way the car behaved. Is your engine 10:1 CR out of curiousity? There's a decent gain to be made from sticking an E34 head onto the older high CR blocks, the intake ports and valves are much larger, and more than make up for the slight drop in CR from having a larger combustion chamber.* *:none of this applies if you're in north america, those engines were really choked up compared to what I'm used to.
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Oct 11, 2015 00:23
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Yeah it's the NA engine with the 8:0 CR which is why a turbo is in the future
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Oct 11, 2015 01:20
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rscott posted:Yeah it's the NA engine with the 8:0 CR which is why a turbo is in the future Oh. Totally understandable. The auto ecu will work perfectly fine, don't worry about it. Still might be worth grabbing a junkyard e34 head because of the aforementioned ports and because they're much less susceptible to cracking/HG blow outs because of some minor design changes.
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Oct 11, 2015 01:35
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noisymime posted:Yeah, the pin header is definitely all good for high-z injectors, officially up to 2 per channel. The injector channels have 2 pins each assigned to them so the current is split between them. The next revision of v0.4 board beefs up some of the traces, but I've tested 3x 12 Ohm injectors on it with a bog standard IDE cable and it was fine (4x injectors burned the trace on the board). That pin header IS a problem for the high current PWM outputs though. I'm thinking that the next version of the board will switch to using a molex connector or something for those. This is an really cool project but your statement above rings alarm bells on the hardware side. If 4amps (4x injectors) is burning up the traces on your PCB, then 3amps (3x injectors) is certainly in the not in the safe operating area as well. I would be happy to help review your layout or assist with the PCB layout itself. While I don't have automotive PCB experience, I have designed many, many pcbs from uW to kW and from dc to 70+GHz.
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Oct 11, 2015 05:16
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rscott posted:Mafoose is there any benefit to megasquirting the m30b34 if I'm not going FI yet? From what I'm reading about doing the 5 speed swap with the 4HP22-EH there's some fuckery in the stock ecu that could make things difficult. How hard would it be to upgrade a ms set up from NA to FI? Obviously a new tune is required but I'm not sure if I'll need any other sensors, etc. I would do it. I heard the stock efi on the NA e28 has a really conservative spark map. In the forums people claim like 10-20hp increase but much more torque throughout the rev range. The stock stuff is also not very mod friendly, which is probably why my car has no balls under 3500rpm because of the IE headers and 3in exhaust (car came like this). A stock MS has a map sensor good to 21psi. The only things you'd need for FI is bigger injectors and possibly a bigger fuel pump. I put an AEM 320lph on the stock hanger in my e24. Use a thread on IAT sensor since you'll eventually want it in the plumbing when you're eventually FI. I was going to MS mine, but at this time it looks like I'm going to drop the S50B30 in it first. The wife ok'd buying the mounts once the green Volvo lives again.
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Oct 11, 2015 07:17
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ZincBoy posted:This is an really cool project but your statement above rings alarm bells on the hardware side. If 4amps (4x injectors) is burning up the traces on your PCB, then 3amps (3x injectors) is certainly in the not in the safe operating area as well. I would be happy to help review your layout or assist with the PCB layout itself. While I don't have automotive PCB experience, I have designed many, many pcbs from uW to kW and from dc to 70+GHz. Always happy to have more eyes on things, particularly the hardware design! All of the project files and the gerbers are included in the git repo. With the injector channels though, only 2 injectors are officially supported per channel, so nobody should be running 3 on them let alone 4. That said though, the whole point of that testing was to find what broke first and the trace that went (along with the other identical one) have both been increased in width on the next revision. The safety margin should therefore be around 100% (ie double), but I'm certainly more than happy to have any suggestions made.
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Oct 11, 2015 07:20
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Checking in here, converted a 1975 BMW 2002 to MS-II EFI about 5 years ago. Actually, assembling the MS-II kit and getting it to start was the easiest part for my car, since it was mostly bolt-on from an e21. I think the most difficult part of doing a complete EFI retrofit is making a safe and high-quality wiring harness from scratch. It can be very difficult to find good information and parts for doing your own wiring. Nearly everything wiring-related off the shelf at an auto parts store is dangerous garbage. I'm redoing my harness now, but I'm going slowly and making sure I do it correctly this time.
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Oct 11, 2015 08:39
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meatpotato posted:Checking in here, converted a 1975 BMW 2002 to MS-II EFI about 5 years ago. Actually, assembling the MS-II kit and getting it to start was the easiest part for my car, since it was mostly bolt-on from an e21. On the topic of wiring harness I think Kastein linked this a while ago in another thread - https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/wiring_ecu.html
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Oct 11, 2015 12:52
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I'm mulling over different options for engine management on my mk3 RHD twinturbo Legacy (see thread here) For the near future the existing stock ECU is plenty as I can remap it with ROMRaider, but I have delicious E85 plans for the future & thus will need something that supports flex-fuel with a proper flex-fuel sensor (as E85 can vary widely in what % is actually ethanol, from E70 to E85 or thereabouts, and I would like to keep my subaru from making knock-knock jokes as long as possible) The go-to for aftermarket E85 around here seems to be Haltech, as they have the largest number of tuners and I have a couple friends who have good experiences with Haltech gear. (poo poo ain't cheap though!) I'm tossing up the new Elite 1500 versus the older direct-plug-in Platinum Pro which i'm not 100% sure will fit, but theoretically should plug straight in (same plugs and pinout used in the WRX). Both seem to be around the same price, but the 1500 requires me to either butcher my spare ECU to make an adapter from Elite to Subaru, or clip the plugs off the Subaru and crimp/solder the Elite loom in, which is a bit more permanent, while theoretically the Platinum Pro should plug right in. The Elite is a MUCH newer ECU, however, with larger fuel and spark tables, two processors (and fail-safes in case one dies) that are several times faster than the Platinum Pro. It has closed-loop lambda, boost, and idle control, faster/more reliable autotune, boost-by-gear (less boost in 1st to help get off the line), launch control, antilag, potential to go to drive-by-wire throttle, all the fun things... The Platinum Pro has most of these features, but as much as I loathe the idea of resoldering every single friggin' ECU wire, I am also not hugely inclined to buy a design that's years and years old. I think I've just answered my own question, really. The Elite seems like a much better option. Does anyone have experience with other high-end aftermarket engine management systems that'd be suitable for a boosted 4-cyl scubaru?
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Oct 11, 2015 13:08
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If, theoretically, I lost my mind and wanted to do a sequential spark/fuel setup with COPs on a BMW V12, what's my best option?
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Oct 11, 2015 15:29
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literally a fish posted:Subaru stuff E85 can vary wildly, but we haven't had any issues running one summer map, and one winter one. It was a Volvo 2.3l that put down 360whp/450ft-lbs. We plan on adding a flex fuel sensor to be able to do road trips in the car. If you're really worried, you can buy E100 in a drum and mix it yourself. Frank Dillinger posted:If, theoretically, I lost my mind and wanted to do a sequential spark/fuel setup with COPs on a BMW V12, what's my best option? As far as I know, MS3 supports sequential fuel and wasted spark on a v12 without any mods. I think you can build hardware for sequential spark as well. High end systems like a MoTec might do what you want, but they're $$$. Even then, how on earth do you plan on tuning it?
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Oct 11, 2015 18:43
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mafoose posted:Believe it or not, that plug and play setup may be a few years old, but it probably still out performs the factory ECU in terms of raw hardware. I thought boost by gear wasn't really needed on awd, unless you're afraid of destroying the transmission. Hell if I know, dude. Anything is probably better than the double engine management strapped to it now.
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Oct 12, 2015 03:46
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I was trying to get at the fact (that I stated earlier in the thread) that fully sequential systems are not really tunable by the average home tinkerer, at least not without a massive investment in instrumentation. Rscott, I have an adapter designed to use a common hall effect sensor in place of the original VR sensor on an M30, I haven't tried it yet but I should have my turbo e24 back this week. I much prefer them over VR. I don't know if the sensor mount is different between the -88 motronic compared to the later ones, but I should be able to check that soon. My plan is to offer a 100% new PNP harness/MS for the m30. I hate the idea of using 30yr old harnesses.
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Oct 12, 2015 05:20
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mafoose posted:Rscott, I have an adapter designed to use a common hall effect sensor in place of the original VR sensor on an M30, I haven't tried it yet but I should have my turbo e24 back this week. I much prefer them over VR. I don't know if the sensor mount is different between the -88 motronic compared to the later ones, but I should be able to check that soon. Some cars use a bellhousing sensor, others use a crank pulley sensor. All the crank pulley ones are the same IIRC or, at the very least, the chain cover is the same and the bracket interchanges. Take this with a grain of salt, it's been loving years since I dicked around with an M30.
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Oct 12, 2015 06:17
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Sorry I'm switching to the later damper with the 60-2 wheel on the crank. On my cars it's a 1 tooth reference currently (I think), so I pulled the sensor mount and pulley from a later m30b35 car. 60-2 will be enough for wasted spark, which is the eventual plan. I plan on running the dizzy and stock coil for a little bit.
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Oct 12, 2015 07:14
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mafoose posted:Believe it or not, that plug and play setup may be a few years old, but it probably still out performs the factory ECU in terms of raw hardware. I thought boost by gear wasn't really needed on awd, unless you're afraid of destroying the transmission. Oh for sure. My car DOES have the 32-bit "new world" Denso ECU, which is something (and makes it mappable with ROMRaider, though I should probably actually test that that works), but the Platinum Pro is still going to be faster. I just take issue with the plug-in being $2000 and the Elite 1500 being $2200; if the plug-in was cheaper I'd be more inclined to choose it. The main issue I'm concerned about is the variability of E85. I'd like the ability to run any percentage from 98 RON through to E85 for the exact reason you mentioned; so I can road trip it and not worry about fuel availability. Boost/fuel/etc by gear isn't hugely necessary, but I am a gigantic nerd and a sucker for things that have fancy cool features. I've been wondering if I might be able to hook something up to the flex-fuel sensor to just give me a readout of what's in the tank & load an appropriate map after each fill-up - seems a bit hamfisted, though. I'll have a chat with tuners around here and see what people think regarding E85 tunes without a flex-fuel sensor - though to me it just sounds like a great way to get my subaru to tell knock knock jokes. In a perfect world, there would be a flex-fuel mod for the existing ECU (using an unused input pin or something) - my search for such a thing has been largely fruitless, however.
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Oct 12, 2015 10:40
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literally a fish posted:Oh for sure. My car DOES have the 32-bit "new world" Denso ECU, which is something (and makes it mappable with ROMRaider, though I should probably actually test that that works), but the Platinum Pro is still going to be faster. I just take issue with the plug-in being $2000 and the Elite 1500 being $2200; if the plug-in was cheaper I'd be more inclined to choose it. If you weren't dicking with E85, romraider makes things pretty drat simple...It's free too, minus the cable.
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Oct 12, 2015 13:14
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Larrymer posted:If you weren't dicking with E85, romraider makes things pretty drat simple...It's free too, minus the cable. I have the cable, actually. Still need to check that romraider works with my specific ECU, but I believe it does. I have it on good authority that E85 is the safest way to achieve the power numbers i'm after on this particular sequential twin turbo motor, hence the E85 dickery.
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Oct 12, 2015 13:42
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Currently on my Audi 4k Quattro, I'm reading Camshaft position from the Hall Effect sensor for the distributor, and TDC (crank) from the flywheel.
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Oct 12, 2015 14:55
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So where would I start if I wanted to replace the ECU on an already fuel injected motorcycle (2000 Honda CBR 1100XX)? Microsquirt? I would think that the bike already has all of the sensors somewhere, but I would have to install a new header with an O2 bung since it doesn't have one. Do I need to plan for an EGT sensor, or is that optional? Primarily I would be doing it just because... but also in hopes of getting something that could be smoother in small throttle openings and somehow ease the on/off throttle transition. T Also, for the OP I remember using an Electromotive ECU setup way back when I was in school doing Formula SAE. Apparently they're still around. https://electromotive.com/product-category/tec-engine-management-systems-restricted/
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Oct 12, 2015 15:16
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