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mungtor posted:Also, for the OP I remember using an Electromotive ECU setup way back when I was in school doing Formula SAE. Apparently they're still around. Added!
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Oct 12, 2015 15:19
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mafoose posted:Believe it or not, that plug and play setup may be a few years old, but it probably still out performs the factory ECU in terms of raw hardware. I thought boost by gear wasn't really needed on awd, unless you're afraid of destroying the transmission. Is there even any advantage to sequential then? Or will batch-Fire work just as well? Sequential just seems better, but I'm suddenly at a loss for words why it would be. To get it working properly I'd need 1 O2 sensor per cylinder, right?
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Oct 12, 2015 15:27
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Frank Dillinger posted:Is there even any advantage to sequential then? Or will batch-Fire work just as well? Sequential just seems better, but I'm suddenly at a loss for words why it would be. To get it working properly I'd need 1 O2 sensor per cylinder, right? Sequential is more fuel efficient, as you are only firing the injector when fuel will actually be needed versus batching the entire thing and squirting fuel when the valve is closed. But for most intents and purposes, batch works just fine, especially for just getting your project going.
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Oct 12, 2015 15:28
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Where sequential really shines is the ability to do per cylinder fueling and timing trims, but that's the part that requires all the equipment. You might get 99% of the power without it. New coils are also harder to over saturate and most wasted spark setups can run higher RPM than we can build motors for. mungtor posted:So where would I start if I wanted to replace the ECU on an already fuel injected motorcycle (2000 Honda CBR 1100XX)? Microsquirt? I would think that the bike already has all of the sensors somewhere, but I would have to install a new header with an O2 bung since it doesn't have one. Do I need to plan for an EGT sensor, or is that optional? Electromotive and MoTec are some of the big name setups, and holy crap are they expensive! Microquirt is great for motorcycles because it is weather proof. The only issue is that it doesn't have on board MAP, which means no barometric corrections unless you add an external one. I've always wondered what kind of fueling strategy the OEM ECU uses, I would guess alpha-n with a map sensor for barometric corrections. You could tune the bike on a dyno with an o2 sensor probe in the pipe. Or you could have a bung welded on to your existing header. Either way, I don't think most bikes run an o2 sensor all the time, so I would just tune with it and remove it once it is done. EGT probes are helpful for dialing in the ignition table, but most factory service manuals break down the timing strategy which makes approximating the spark table a breeze. CommieGIR, did you ever decide how you were going to run your 5 cylinder? If you're just doing the v10 way, you don't need a TDC sensor. The distributor sensor would be enough.
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Oct 12, 2015 19:26
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mafoose posted:CommieGIR, did you ever decide how you were going to run your 5 cylinder? If you're just doing the v10 way, you don't need a TDC sensor. The distributor sensor would be enough. Probably the V10 way, but I have the crank sensor wired up and ready if I change my mind down the road, but its disabled for now.
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Oct 12, 2015 19:41
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mafoose posted:Microquirt is great for motorcycles because it is weather proof. The only issue is that it doesn't have on board MAP, which means no barometric corrections unless you add an external one. I've always wondered what kind of fueling strategy the OEM ECU uses, I would guess alpha-n with a map sensor for barometric corrections. Cool. It looks like I'm gonna have a bunch of research to do, but riding season is pretty close to over here in MA so I'll have the time. I'll check clearances for getting an O2 sensor in the existing manifold to see if it can be done. It seems like a good thing to have and my access to an actual dyno is pretty limited. Ditto with actually reading the ignition/injection section in the service manual.
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Oct 12, 2015 23:08
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mungtor posted:So where would I start if I wanted to replace the ECU on an already fuel injected motorcycle (2000 Honda CBR 1100XX)? Microsquirt? I would think that the bike already has all of the sensors somewhere, but I would have to install a new header with an O2 bung since it doesn't have one. Do I need to plan for an EGT sensor, or is that optional? I have a 2002 with a Dynojet FI box. It took some time on the dyno, however I think me and my tuner got it pretty straightened out, The K&N filter seems to be the one PITA thing that affects the fueling drastically if not properly fitted and sealed. It seems like a lot of people prefer the stock filter. Admittedly, it's not perfect, but I haven't rode a FI bike yet that didn't have some fueling inconsistencies.
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Oct 13, 2015 03:30
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Ok, so for my ignition box, I should go with low-side switches for my coils. Should I protect those in any way? How much coil noise makes it into the enclosure, and should I be worried about it affecting anything?
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Oct 15, 2015 11:16
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:Ok, so for my ignition box, I should go with low-side switches for my coils. Should I protect those in any way? How much coil noise makes it into the enclosure, and should I be worried about it affecting anything? Best way I know? Run a shield around the wiring going to the coil and ground it on both sides.
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Oct 15, 2015 14:29
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If anyone is interested in how Toyota implemented EFI in the early 90's on the 1UZ, this pdf if full of useful info, much of which applies to general EFI applications: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0WE7dVhvJd_UFRKeEptSTVqaTg/edit
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Oct 15, 2015 15:25
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CommieGIR posted:Best way I know? Run a shield around the wiring going to the coil and ground it on both sides. Isn't that a ground loop? Pretty sure you only ground it on ONE side. babyeatingpsychopath posted:Ok, so for my ignition box, I should go with low-side switches for my coils. Should I protect those in any way? How much coil noise makes it into the enclosure, and should I be worried about it affecting anything? Did I miss something? What are you trying to do? What are you working on again? I usually don't run my wires close to the HT lines and that's usually enough.
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Oct 15, 2015 18:23
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mafoose posted:Isn't that a ground loop? Huh? The shield would not be electrically connected to the conductors inside it, and it would not matter if it were grounded at one end or both. Ground loops occur when two independently grounded items are grounded to points with different potentials. In a car, the entire metal structure serves as one ground, making potential differences between ground locations impossible.
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Oct 15, 2015 19:33
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Geirskogul posted:The tach signal from ALDL, from what I remember, is pretty simple. It says a lot when the Windows 98 executable for reading the signal is only like 3 megs, and it also had temperature, desired idle/current RPM, etc. Even with my basic, basic skills, I'm pretty sure I could whip something up that was overbloated and required an entire Arduino Uno to run, but the update to the actual tach would probably be a second or two behind Seat Safety Switch posted:Three megs what the poo poo? I've shipped enterprise software that was smaller than that. A Uno has a whopping 32KB (minus 512 bytes for the bootloader) to play around in. Yeah, that poo poo is way past me. I'm a jack of all trades, so I get a bit of it, but translating all that into usable hardware is not something I can do. Maybe ever. I may try to figure it out at some point, but I am perfectly willing to pay someone for a their time to get it done, up to a point. I can build hardware, and I can modify and dick about with code a bit, but circuit design and coding from scratch is probably not going to happen.
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Oct 15, 2015 20:24
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mafoose posted:Isn't that a ground loop? Yes, you only ground it to one side, sorry, I miss spoke.
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Oct 15, 2015 21:40
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CommieGIR posted:Yes, you only ground it to one side, sorry, I miss spoke. A quick googling seems to indicate you ground the source side, but if you're running something like an ac signal (maybe like VR) you ground both. I know all the wiring diagrams I've seen show the rpm input shield grounded on only one side, and that's how I run it on cars with VR and never had an issue with lost sync. Then again I dislike VR and would take a hall or optical sensor any day of the week.
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Oct 15, 2015 23:58
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Hey, it's an ECU thread. I've been running various Miatas on Megasquirt 3 for a few years now. First car was a DIY kit with a MS3X. 2nd car is a Revenant built MS3. (http://www.trackspeedengineering.com/MSLabs-Megasquirt-MS3-Basic.html) I'm also using a Nexus tablet running Shadow Dash MS as a digital dash. MS install, still need to prune the engine harness. Most of those wires go nowhere.  Potato quality dashboard shot.
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Oct 16, 2015 00:57
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Grounds chat: you only ever want to ground one side. It will save you tons of grief if you're ever troubleshooting down the road.
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Oct 16, 2015 01:58
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mafoose posted:Did I miss something? What are you trying to do? What are you working on again? I usually don't run my wires close to the HT lines and that's usually enough. I'm going to dive in and build a replacement body computer for my 2001 Suzuki Bandit. It's got a "computer" in charge of spark only, the fuel is by gravity and carburettors. I'm going to replace that computer with (I hope) an arduino mini, if the atmega328 has the horsepower to do two wasted sparks up to 12k RPM. I've got a TPS and a "signal generator" which I think is some kind of bizarre-looking four-toothed (with one bigger) thing, and a hall effect sensor. The current setup has the coils supplied with 12V constantly, and the computer provides the ground. I'd planned on duplicating that with MOSFET switches. I'm currently (like right now) soldering up my lights controller. All the lights (and horn) are grounded to the frame, so I'm using high-side switching there.
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Oct 16, 2015 02:04
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Can I talk about injectors here? Im upgrading my fuel system to support a new turbo. 740cc side feeds (Nismo, bolt in) cost the same as a complete kit to convert to top feed injectors @ 1150cc Is there any negatives to going to gigantic injectors? any detriment to daily driving? from what I understand, Top feeds are much more linear in tuning than side feeds, but I would imagine the side-feeds being an OEM product and a tried-and-true setup for close to a decade for my engine makes them easy to tune for also. going up to 1150cc opens up the possibility of E85 in the future with a flash + remap, although 750cc for now meets my needs for pump fuel.
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Oct 16, 2015 06:46
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What efi are you running? Do you have to pass emissions? You've got an sr20 right? I've dealt with 1000cc injectors on a B16 Honda running Chrome and getting it to idle below 1600rpm was almost impossible (it also had big cams). This was on gas. I've also tuned a cammed 2.3l Volvo with 1000cc injectors. MS1 has a 1uS fuel precision, and it would idle OK at 1200rpm. With ms2 and it's 0.6uS precision, it idles buttery smooth at 900 rpm. This car runs e85 most of the time though so it needs the bigger injectors. Running gas on a small engine with injectors that big be a real pain in the low rpm areas. More so if you have to pass emissions.
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Oct 16, 2015 19:39
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Also keep in mind that there is a large variation in injector quality at idle. I know in the Miata community Injector Dynamics is talked about in high regard since you can get a decent idle out of them.
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Oct 16, 2015 20:34
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Running Nistune, which is a daughter board soldered to the Nissan ECU. Has complete control of the fuel map and ignition timing and everything else, but retains all the factory stuff like AC tune, cold start etc Yeah idle and low rpm stuff is my concern. I don't have to pass emissions unless I get pulled over and the cops decide I have to (which isn't hard considering I run no cat and the car stinks) but fortunately never happened yet. I just don't want a car that is all or nothing as its my daily driver. Plus that kind of setup isn't good for the track either. From what I have heard of injector dynamics, their hi flowed injectors are garbage which is why I've been suggested to stick go oem side feeds or convert to genuine Bosch top feeds
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Oct 16, 2015 23:19
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FatCow posted:Hey, it's an ECU thread. I've been running various Miatas on Megasquirt 3 for a few years now. First car was a DIY kit with a MS3X. 2nd car is a Revenant built MS3. (http://www.trackspeedengineering.com/MSLabs-Megasquirt-MS3-Basic.html) I'm also using a Nexus tablet running Shadow Dash MS as a digital dash.   I've been not paying attention to the MS forums and development for too long. Shadow Dash is something I've been waiting for a long time - and here it's like 3 years old! May not even bother with the '88 Cutlass digital dash now. I need to look into piping other sensor data into the MS, like oil pressure and fuel level. With that, it would be a complete dash, since the other usual stuff like volts, boost, and water temp are already used by the MS. This poo poo is getting me fired up enough I may actually make some progress towards my conversion!
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Oct 17, 2015 00:41
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Some things to watch out for: You need to get a tablet that support USB OTG and charging. As far as I could tell almost everything requires a custom ROM to do this. You also need to make sure that the tablet can charge at 2A while in OTG mode. My 1st gen Nexus 7 can't and it's only really useful for a sprint race car. I'd say I get about 2 hours or so of battery life out of it. I suppose breaking it open and wiring an appropriate source directly to the battery terminals is an option as well. Sometimes Shadow Dash just stops communicating with the MS3, no idea why. I have oil pressure and temp visible in the OEM dash still so it doesn't affect me that much. It 'hangs' sometimes for a second or so, I'm thinking this is just the Nexus 7 barely having enough grunt to run it. But having numeric coolant temp and AFR on my dash is very nice.
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Oct 17, 2015 16:04
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with speeduino is there any way to get a detonation input going, or am I own my own?
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Oct 17, 2015 19:37
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I've looked around and I can't seem to get a strait answer - how many amps does an average EFI setup need? I was ball parking 15, that's including controller and pump. All the answers I get seem to fluctuate between 7 and 30 I'd just like to fuel inject an Onan perform 18hp on a JD 318 mower.
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Oct 18, 2015 02:38
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cursedshitbox posted:with speeduino is there any way to get a detonation input going, or am I own my own? Its just a pezio input, so I'd imagine so, and with the Mega 2560 it has PLENTY of inputs/outputs. BrokenKnucklez posted:I've looked around and I can't seem to get a strait answer - how many amps does an average EFI setup need? I was ball parking 15, that's including controller and pump. Like altogether? 15 seems adequate for a single small pump and 1/2 injectors.
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Oct 18, 2015 03:45
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cursedshitbox posted:with speeduino is there any way to get a detonation input going, or am I own my own? No, not currently. Doing knock detection properly is a task for a true digital signal processor (DSP) as it requires very high speed analog processing which isn't something that the Arduino does well. I've seen a few people who have just hooked up the knock signal to an analog port and watched for a certain level of spike, but it really really doesn't work that way. Things like changing gear, rev limiter, electrical noise etc all cause spikes that will trigger a basic setup like that. You need to be tracking the signal and watching for certain dynamic patterns to truly see knock. There are aftermarket knock processors that output a single on/off signal to indicate knock, that would be the only option with Speeduino for now.
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Oct 18, 2015 11:31
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noisymime posted:No, not currently. Doing knock detection properly is a task for a true digital signal processor (DSP) as it requires very high speed analog processing which isn't something that the Arduino does well. I stand corrected!
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Oct 18, 2015 12:03
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Back in the 1990s I ended up going with a haltech f7. But around at the time was wolf and microtech. I just did a search and it seems they are still around too. http://microtechefi.com/ http://www.wolfems.com.au/index.html Edit: I forgot there's also motec http://www.motec.com.au/ Back then motec were more about the V8s, and I think they were very pricey, so I never looked at them. Microtech and Haltech were the brands catering more towards rotaries. May be of interest if there's information on all these sites for the casual browser, also to compare features they may have over any already mentioned in the OP. These Australian companies have been doing aftermarket EFI systems for over 20 years. Also it should be where any aussie lurkers decide to start their search of course. Fo3 fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Oct 18, 2015 |
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Oct 18, 2015 12:45
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BrokenKnucklez posted:I've looked around and I can't seem to get a strait answer - how many amps does an average EFI setup need? I was ball parking 15, that's including controller and pump. 3amp max for controller, around 1amp per injector, and I've heard motorcycle and atv fuel pumps are around 3amps, no idea on the ignition, but that might be fused appropriately already.
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Oct 18, 2015 18:45
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I'm very slowly rewiring my rover V8 to run a dodgy Polish LPG ECU (fuel only) and also fuel only megasquirt for petrol along with a digital kit-car dash (I will perhaps get the megasquirt to run the LPG later). What is holding me back at the moment is drawing up my wiring loom before I make it. I am trying to do it in visio at the moment which is fairly poo poo for this task (and most tasks..). I've drawn most of my components now but moving them round as I draw it is a headache as visio is useless at handling lots of lines. Is there any better software for drawing looms up? I'm also trying hard to make my wiring loom nice and modular so that I can easily mod it later without redoing the whole thing and I think I'm over doing everything. I am also trying to get phase 1 to be it running on the LPG ECU before attempting phase 2 - megasquirt. At the moment everything has lots of multi-way connectors on it (so that if I need to remake bits like the engine <-> ecu loom the replacement will be plug and play), and because I have 3 main physical locations in the truck (I have 2 seperate fuse box/ecu locations and the dash) I have a number of main interlinks running between them which makes my diagram simpler.
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Oct 18, 2015 22:37
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I haven't found anything I liked for drawing wiring harnesses. Also I wanted to make a modular wiring harness as well but I felt it got overcomplicated fast. What I decided to do instead was just have one big multipin connector for sensors/low current items, and one for high current stuff on a separate connector. I then loomed systems together so if I ever upgrade say, the ignition system from a coil and ignitor to full COP, I depin it from the bulkhead and it is all together, make the new section, and repin it to the existing connector.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:11
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mafoose posted:3amp max for controller, around 1amp per injector, and I've heard motorcycle and atv fuel pumps are around 3amps, no idea on the ignition, but that might be fused appropriately already. I am more wondering how many amps my alternator output is so I could still run an electric PTO clutch, and a few other misc bullshit items.
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Oct 19, 2015 02:42
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Does it have a full on separate alternator?
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Oct 19, 2015 03:03
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mafoose posted:Does it have a full on separate alternator? No, its similar to a bike. I mean.... It wouldn't be hard to add one, the engine is set up with a shaft that runs down the middle of the mower. I could easily yank the old stater system and run a 1 wire GM alternator
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Oct 19, 2015 03:21
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Eagle could be useful for wiring harness diagram-ing, though you'd have to create a component definition for each item.
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Oct 19, 2015 04:15
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literally a fish posted:Eagle could be useful for wiring harness diagram-ing, though you'd have to create a component definition for each item. I'm just using various pin headers with names. 1x3 header called "signal generator" and the like. It makes some OK diagrams, and its autorouter is terrible.
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Oct 19, 2015 12:51
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Im putting an oil pressure sensor in my car. It has a ground, a signal, and a 12v Constant wire. What is the 12v constant wire for, and is it going to drain my battery if connected directly to the battery? would I be better connecting that to the ignition/start circuit?
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Oct 19, 2015 23:06
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You should connect that to a switched source. On in run only would likely be fine.
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Oct 19, 2015 23:16
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