ECU/Wiring: Bargain Basement Fuel Injection

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > ECU/Wiring: Bargain Basement Fuel Injection

noisymime: Oct 6, 2015; I tame lightning and transmute Arduinos into ECUs

CommieGIR posted:

http://www.amazon.com/JBtek-Wireless-Bluetooth-Transceiver-Arduino/dp/B00L083QAC/ref=pd_bxgy_147_img_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=1FBRRDE6FRJWS1S3EWWS

This is what I'm running, supports many different baud rates (defaults to 9600) and supports passkey. Its basically a wireless UART module.

It SAYS it takes 3.3v, but the board its mounted to has a 5V regulator.

Yep, the HC-05 and HC-06 will work just fine with Speeduino too and they're cheap as chips. A few of the guys are using them in order to have tablets as either an instrument dash (ShadowDash) or for tuning itself (MS Droid). Both seem to work well enough.

There's currently not a CAN interface, but one of the guys has been working on this with some success.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 23:41

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# ? May 4, 2024 23:20

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

noisymime posted:

Yep, the HC-05 and HC-06 will work just fine with Speeduino too and they're cheap as chips. A few of the guys are using them in order to have tablets as either an instrument dash (ShadowDash) or for tuning itself (MS Droid). Both seem to work well enough.

There's currently not a CAN interface, but one of the guys has been working on this with some success.

MS Droid doesn't recognize my MS1 even though TunerStudio does.

# ? Apr 13, 2016 23:44

ionn: Jan 23, 2004; Din morsa.; Grimey Drawer

ShittyPostmakerPro posted:

Is it possible to add a CAN shield to the same arduino to allow users to output CAN data for rpm, temperature, etc?

noisymime posted:

There's currently not a CAN interface, but one of the guys has been working on this with some success.

Looking through the code, it seems it would be pretty simple to take the currentStatus struct and throw some of the stuff in there out over CAN. Have used MCP2515 over SPI (same thing as is in the CAN shield, but through a separate $2 board), and it's simple enough to use. Just not sure how much CPU headroom there is in Speeduino, and if using SPI will mess with the timing-sensitive parts (interrupts for trigger wheels and injection/ignition events). Might just give it a try though.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 00:47

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

Just an FYI for future Megasquirt users:

The MS1 Extra firmware is NOT compatible with the MS1 running the V3 firmware. Thank goodness they run an actual bootloader, I was able to roll back.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 02:30

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

Anyone any good at generating and tuning Air/Fuel maps?

# ? Apr 18, 2016 05:50

honda whisperer: Mar 29, 2009

I've got a lot of experience with dyno tuning aem and hondata. Would that help?

# ? Apr 21, 2016 22:40

noisymime: Oct 6, 2015; I tame lightning and transmute Arduinos into ECUs

CommieGIR posted:

Anyone any good at generating and tuning Air/Fuel maps?

Tuner Studio can generate a pretty good base map, assuming you feed it the right data. It'll still need a little tweaking, particularly for forced induction, but its a pretty drat good starting point.

(I think the table generator might be a feature of the registered version only)

# ? Apr 22, 2016 05:27

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

noisymime posted:

Tuner Studio can generate a pretty good base map, assuming you feed it the right data. It'll still need a little tweaking, particularly for forced induction, but its a pretty drat good starting point.

(I think the table generator might be a feature of the registered version only)

I did end up buying TunerStudio, and yeah the stock generator seems to be working well.

Will Megasquirt Extra handle ignition advance for boost/acceleration?

CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Apr 22, 2016

# ? Apr 22, 2016 15:12

noisymime: Oct 6, 2015; I tame lightning and transmute Arduinos into ECUs

CommieGIR posted:

I did end up buying TunerStudio, and yeah the stock generator seems to be working well.

If you're doing your own tuning, the registered version is worth it alone for the autotune function. Works very, very well.

CommieGIR posted:

Will Megasquirt Extra handle ignition advance for boost/acceleration?

Not sure I understand your question exactly. If you're running speed-density then the ignition advance map is based on RPM and manifold pressure, so it takes boost into account just by default.

You don't typically need acceleration based timing changes, just fuel enrichment. The map takes care of the rest.

# ? Apr 23, 2016 23:08

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

noisymime posted:

If you're doing your own tuning, the registered version is worth it alone for the autotune function. Works very, very well.

Not sure I understand your question exactly. If you're running speed-density then the ignition advance map is based on RPM and manifold pressure, so it takes boost into account just by default.

You don't typically need acceleration based timing changes, just fuel enrichment. The map takes care of the rest.

Yeah, my issue now isn't the boost/fuel but idling.

Oh, and it starts bucking during acceleration....

code:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="no"?>
<tableData xmlns="http://www.usEasyDocs.com/theory/spktable.htm/:table">
<bibliography author="Lance Gardiner" company="BGSoflex, copyright 2010, All Rights Reserved." writeDate="Sat Apr 23 2016 20:02:56 GMT-0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)"></bibliography>
<versionInfo fileFormat="1.0"/>
<table cols="12" rows="12">
<xAxis cols="12" name="rpm">
         800
         950
         1400
         1800
         2200
         2700
         3100
         3500
         3900
         4400
         4800
         7000
      </xAxis>
<yAxis name="kpaix" rows="12">
         25.0
         43.0
         61.0
         79.0
         98.0
         116.0
         134.0
         152.0
         170.0
         188.0
         207.0
         225.0
      </yAxis>
<zValues cols="12" rows="12">
         13.0 10.0 17.0 21.3 25.5 30.8 34.0 34.0 34.0 34.0 34.0 34.0
         13.0 10.0 16.3 20.3 24.4 29.5 32.5 32.5 32.5 32.5 32.5 32.5
         13.0 10.0 15.5 19.4 23.3 28.1 31.0 31.0 31.0 31.0 31.0 31.0
         13.0 10.0 14.8 18.5 22.2 26.8 29.5 29.5 29.5 29.5 29.5 29.5
         5.0 10.0 14.0 17.5 21.0 25.3 28.0 28.0 28.0 28.0 28.0 28.0
         5.0 10.0 13.2 16.5 19.8 24.0 26.4 26.4 26.4 26.4 26.4 26.4
         5.0 10.0 12.5 15.6 18.7 22.6 24.9 24.9 24.9 24.9 24.9 24.9
         5.0 10.0 11.7 14.7 17.6 21.3 23.4 23.4 23.4 23.4 23.4 23.4
         5.0 10.0 11.0 13.7 16.5 19.9 21.9 21.9 21.9 21.9 21.9 21.9
         5.0 10.0 10.2 12.8 15.3 18.5 20.4 20.4 20.4 20.4 20.4 20.4
         5.0 10.0 9.4 11.8 14.2 17.1 18.9 18.9 18.9 18.9 18.9 18.9
         5.0 10.0 8.7 10.9 13.0 15.7 17.4 17.4 17.4 17.4 17.4 17.4
		</zValues>
</table>
</tableData>

This helped immensely. I regenerated the spark map from Megasquirt's online generator and now it accelerates with a LOT less bucking, still not smooth but function.

CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Apr 24, 2016

# ? Apr 23, 2016 23:51

literally a fish: Oct 2, 2014; German officer Johannes Bolter peeks out the hatch of his Tiger I heavy tank during a quiet moment before the Battle of Kursk - c:1943 (colorized); Slippery Tilde

I MADE DIS (from a kit)

It's going in a friend's 1989 MX-5. Dat semi-sequential injection tho

# ? Apr 25, 2016 04:12

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

literally a fish posted:

I MADE DIS (from a kit)

It's going in a friend's 1989 MX-5. Dat semi-sequential injection tho

Is that the Miata plug n play kit? Nice.

If I can get the MS1 fully tuned, I might be tempted to step up to an MS2 or MS3...

# ? Apr 25, 2016 17:13

noisymime: Oct 6, 2015; I tame lightning and transmute Arduinos into ECUs

literally a fish posted:

I MADE DIS (from a kit)

It's going in a friend's 1989 MX-5. Dat semi-sequential injection tho

The benefits of full sequential are fairly overblown in my opinion. Unless the engine is otherwise heavily modified, you won't see much benefit over a decent semi-seq setup.
Semi-seq is heaps better than the old batch injection and the stock NA ECU is primitive at best. My NA6 drives significantly better compared to the standard ECU and its otherwise totally stock (Including keeping the AFM).

# ? Apr 26, 2016 00:36

Seat Safety Switch: May 27, 2008; MY RELIGION IS THE SMALL BLOCK V8 AND COMMANDMENTS ONE THROUGH TEN ARE NEVER LIFT.; Pillbug

Is the big benefit of semi-seq over batch injection just that you have less wall pooling going on?

I would assume the stock NA6 ECU must also be semi-sequential because of its age? I can't imagine they'd run four dedicated injector drivers with how slow that ECU is.

Seat Safety Switch fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Apr 26, 2016

# ? Apr 26, 2016 01:13

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

Seat Safety Switch posted:

Is the big benefit of semi-seq over batch injection just that you have less wall pooling going on?

I would assume the stock NA6 ECU must also be semi-sequential because of its age? I can't imagine they'd run four dedicated injector drivers with how slow that ECU is.

Batch causes a lot of idle issues apparently, I'm dealing with it right now.

# ? Apr 26, 2016 01:22

noisymime: Oct 6, 2015; I tame lightning and transmute Arduinos into ECUs

Seat Safety Switch posted:

Is the big benefit of semi-seq over batch injection just that you have less wall pooling going on?

I would assume the stock NA6 ECU must also be semi-sequential because of its age? I can't imagine they'd run four dedicated injector drivers with how slow that ECU is.

The definitions aren't exactly universal and vary a little bit across different ECUs, but typically semi-sequential refers to injection that has 2 squirts (or more) over a 720 degree cycle where the squirts are timed to the crank position. It will be timed to complete the squirts by a given crank angle to align with the valve opening/closing.
Bank/Batch on the other hand sprays the same amount of fuel, in the same number of squirts, but it is untimed meaning that it will just happen at some point during the 720 degrees. The squirts may even cross over the TDC position of that cylinder. Its this untimed nature that can lead to idling issues etc.

The NA6 ECU runs either semi-seq or batch, I've never checked which. The NA8 and NB ECUs are completely different and all run dedicated drivers, though not all are sequential until '96. The NA6 ECU though is seriously primitive and can be improved upon quite a lot with a PNP and a good tune. It's missing things like acceleration enrichment and decent metering (The AFM is sloppy at best), so a VTPS + Speed-Density go a long way.

# ? Apr 26, 2016 01:53

literally a fish: Oct 2, 2014; German officer Johannes Bolter peeks out the hatch of his Tiger I heavy tank during a quiet moment before the Battle of Kursk - c:1943 (colorized); Slippery Tilde

CommieGIR posted:

Is that the Miata plug n play kit? Nice.

If I can get the MS1 fully tuned, I might be tempted to step up to an MS2 or MS3...

Yessir, this one right here.

Seat Safety Switch posted:

Is the big benefit of semi-seq over batch injection just that you have less wall pooling going on?

I would assume the stock NA6 ECU must also be semi-sequential because of its age? I can't imagine they'd run four dedicated injector drivers with how slow that ECU is.

Stock ECU is indeed batch fire fuel and wasted spark ignition. As semi-sequential doesn't require any wiring changes, just a smarter computer, I'm doing that.

noisymime posted:

The benefits of full sequential are fairly overblown in my opinion. Unless the engine is otherwise heavily modified, you won't see much benefit over a decent semi-seq setup.
Semi-seq is heaps better than the old batch injection and the stock NA ECU is primitive at best. My NA6 drives significantly better compared to the standard ECU and its otherwise totally stock (Including keeping the AFM).

Oh yeah, there's no real point to going sequential on this thing unless it gets a turbocharger thrown on it. The only mods we'll be making are the addition of an IAT sensor in the manifold and a proper variable TPS instead of the two-switch stock one so it can run proper speed-density. Makes all the modifications nice and reversible.

noisymime posted:

[words]

A slightly simpler explanation;
Sequential = one pulse per injector timed to intake event
Semi-sequential = Two pulses per injector (of half the length) timed to every piston downstroke, even if the valve is closed

You can think of semi-sequential injection as the fuel equivalent of wasted spark ignition. You pulse 1/3 and 2/4 at the same time, even though only one of those is actually actively sucking fuel/air at the moment. Unlike wasted spark, it does actually have a downside, but you have to really be pushing for that last few percent for it to matter.

Noisymime, what tuning software are you using with ye olde speeduino? TunerStudio? If so, would I be able to grab your tune file? if yes, email is literallyafish[at]omnom[dot]net :3:

# ? Apr 26, 2016 03:43

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

Some here possibly look at my tunerstudio logs?

# ? Apr 26, 2016 04:05

noisymime: Oct 6, 2015; I tame lightning and transmute Arduinos into ECUs

literally a fish posted:

Noisymime, what tuning software are you using with ye olde speeduino? TunerStudio? If so, would I be able to grab your tune file? if yes, email is literallyafish[at]omnom[dot]net

It does use TunerStudio and I'm happy to send through the tune, but it's not 100% compatible with Megasquirts. There are a few things that are conceptually different between the 2, so it might not translate over directly.
I'll send it through though. I'd recommend creating a new project using the speeduino INI file (https://raw.githubusercontent.com/noisymime/speeduino/master/reference/speeduino.ini) then loading the tune into there. You can then copy/past over the maps etc.

# ? Apr 26, 2016 04:29

literally a fish: Oct 2, 2014; German officer Johannes Bolter peeks out the hatch of his Tiger I heavy tank during a quiet moment before the Battle of Kursk - c:1943 (colorized); Slippery Tilde

noisymime posted:

It does use TunerStudio and I'm happy to send through the tune, but it's not 100% compatible with Megasquirts. There are a few things that are conceptually different between the 2, so it might not translate over directly.
I'll send it through though. I'd recommend creating a new project using the speeduino INI file (https://raw.githubusercontent.com/noisymime/speeduino/master/reference/speeduino.ini) then loading the tune into there. You can then copy/past over the maps etc.

That is exactly what I planned to do, so thanks :sun:

# ? Apr 26, 2016 12:08

Tomarse: Mar 7, 2001; Grr

I actually started wiring up my land rover today.

Is there an easy online reference guide I can use to identify the connector type that I need to buy to plug some stuff in?

I am good with all the junior timer connectors (http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/section.php/214/1/junior-power-timer-connectors), but I have a few things that look like they use a different connector - like the rover speed sensor I am using.

Or is my best option going to be chopping one off in a scrap yard?

# ? Apr 30, 2016 20:02

ionn: Jan 23, 2004; Din morsa.; Grimey Drawer

Usually many different car manufacturers use ECUs from the same company, and with the same connectors between the harness and ECU, so there's a limited number of different ones around. However, identifying exactly which ones and finding those is often a pain. Getting a broken ECU off ebay or something from a scrapyard is often a good option. Not only do you get connectors that fit in the stock harness, you might even get a perfectly fine enclosure to mount the new ECU in.

# ? Apr 30, 2016 20:21

literally a fish: Oct 2, 2014; German officer Johannes Bolter peeks out the hatch of his Tiger I heavy tank during a quiet moment before the Battle of Kursk - c:1943 (colorized); Slippery Tilde

Also if you post a picture of the connector here, Ken or one of the Rover spergs can probably ID it.

# ? Apr 30, 2016 20:54

Tomarse: Mar 7, 2001; Grr

ionn posted:

Usually many different car manufacturers use ECUs from the same company, and with the same connectors between the harness and ECU, so there's a limited number of different ones around. However, identifying exactly which ones and finding those is often a pain. Getting a broken ECU off ebay or something from a scrapyard is often a good option. Not only do you get connectors that fit in the stock harness, you might even get a perfectly fine enclosure to mount the new ECU in.

I've got a complete loom from a 3.9 Rover V8 - but have ended up using a combination of the 3.9 parts, some legacy 3.5 bits along with some 4.6 parts!. the IAC and TPS are the 2 things that changed so I don't have the right connectors for them.

I've stripped down the 3.9 loom to leave just the bits I need.

literally a fish posted:

Also if you post a picture of the connector here, Ken or one of the Rover spergs can probably ID it.

Right - What type of connectors are these?

Are they just superseal weatherproof ones like the ones here - http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/section.php/117/1/multi-connectors

This one pictured is from my LPG stepper motor and has 4 pins - but I need the same one for the IAC (which I guess has the same connector with it also being a stepper)

I also seem to need a 3 pin version of the same one for my speed sensor:

I also need to work out what size the threaded connector on the end of a Rover 3.9 fuel rail is, as it isnt the same as the one that used to connect to my carbs, so I need to put a new end on my fuel line.

Here is a lovely blurry picture with it circled:

# ? May 1, 2016 20:14

Salami Surgeon: Jan 21, 2001; Don't close. Don't close.; Nap Ghost

Those look like Delphi Metri Pack connectors.

# ? May 2, 2016 05:03

Tomarse: Mar 7, 2001; Grr

SNiPER_Magnum posted:

Those look like Delphi Metri Pack connectors.

Thanks - they do indeed look like they might be Delphi Metri-pack connectors - probably the 150.2 series - http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/automotive-connectors/8011027/

I'll buy a couple, and see if I can get them crimped using my normal uninsulated terminal crimper as they look to be slightly different

Looks like 'econoseal' connectors might be compatible too, but I'm struggling to find a decent picture of one (I'm also looking at replacing some of my lights with some newer Landrover ones and the new Landrover lighs apparently have econoseal connectors on)

Tomarse fucked around with this message at 10:46 on May 2, 2016

# ? May 2, 2016 10:34

Pomp and Circumcized: Dec 23, 2006; If there's one thing I love more than GruntKilla420, it's the Queen! Also bacon.

Every LPG install I've seen has used Superseal connectors, but that one does look slightly different. I've not seen Superseals in blue (only in red, yellow, green).

# ? May 2, 2016 19:28

Tomarse: Mar 7, 2001; Grr

SNiPER_Magnum posted:

Those look like Delphi Metri Pack connectors.

Full marks on the IAC Stepper - I bought some Metri-pack 150.2 connectors and it is indeed one of them.

The speed sensor however is not a 3 pin Metri-pack 150.2 - it looks like it from a distance but in reality it is slightly larger and the pin spacing is greater.

Hoping I find some more use for these metri-pack buggers as I had to buy 100 terminals, and I will now have 96 spare!

# ? May 6, 2016 12:45

literally a fish: Oct 2, 2014; German officer Johannes Bolter peeks out the hatch of his Tiger I heavy tank during a quiet moment before the Battle of Kursk - c:1943 (colorized); Slippery Tilde

I think that might be a Denso connector similar to the 2-pin one used on Subaru fuel injectors? But I dunno. It looks right and wrong at the same time.

# ? May 7, 2016 02:23

Seat Safety Switch: May 27, 2008; MY RELIGION IS THE SMALL BLOCK V8 AND COMMANDMENTS ONE THROUGH TEN ARE NEVER LIFT.; Pillbug

If the locating slide pins on the sides were more offset I'd think it's a Sumitomo connector which Subaru also uses for a ton of stuff including their VSS and evap.

I think the fuel injector connectors on older Subarus are also Sumitomo 2-ways, or at least DeatschWerks thinks so. Maybe Denso makes them too.

Seat Safety Switch fucked around with this message at 04:32 on May 7, 2016

# ? May 7, 2016 04:28

literally a fish: Oct 2, 2014; German officer Johannes Bolter peeks out the hatch of his Tiger I heavy tank during a quiet moment before the Battle of Kursk - c:1943 (colorized); Slippery Tilde

Seat Safety Switch posted:

I think the fuel injector connectors on older Subarus are also Sumitomo 2-ways, or at least DeatschWerks thinks so. Maybe Denso makes them too.

You'd know better than I - That's entirely possible, then, as the slots on the sides are just application-specific keying, and it looks exactly like a 3-pin subaru injector connector. They use the same connector with different keying for the cam angle sensor and injectors, for example.

# ? May 7, 2016 08:58

Tomarse: Mar 7, 2001; Grr

Seat Safety Switch posted:

If the locating slide pins on the sides were more offset I'd think it's a Sumitomo connector which Subaru also uses for a ton of stuff including their VSS and evap.

I think the fuel injector connectors on older Subarus are also Sumitomo 2-ways, or at least DeatschWerks thinks so. Maybe Denso makes them too.

That diagram is missing any dimensions

I have however done some searching on the part number of the speed sensor that I have, and found this same discussion topic with someone saying that the connector on it is the same as the 3-way one for the brake/side lights on a landrover defender - which from some other research this week (I'm also trying to find replacement light fittings), I know should be an econoseal...

I then found this awesome shop which has lots of choice and lots of pictures - http://www.polevolt.co.uk/acatalog/info_ESC3F.html and the specs here - http://www.mouser.com/pdfdocs/ENG_CS_1654365_Econoseal_0911-2.PDF - and it looks to fit the (limited) dimensions in the spec.

3 way econoseal female:

So have just spent another �45 on connectors and various other useful wiring bits....

If it isnt that one, I'll try and find a sumitomo Female 3 way connector

Tomarse fucked around with this message at 10:13 on May 7, 2016

# ? May 7, 2016 10:09

Pomp and Circumcized: Dec 23, 2006; If there's one thing I love more than GruntKilla420, it's the Queen! Also bacon.

You can always solder tails onto the pins and then fill the whole thing with epoxy. Kind of a last resort thing, though.

# ? May 7, 2016 10:20

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

So guys I'm having an issue:

The car will accelerate fine and then starts bogging around 3000 RPM and sputters, but I'm getting black smoke like its running rich and the narrowband O2 sensor is showing Rich readings.

~~Any ideas?~~

A quick update: Someone on the Megasquirt group pointed out my VE table stops at 100 kPa. And I was exceeding that. So I hit the fuel table limit.

CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 17:35 on May 11, 2016

# ? May 11, 2016 16:10

ionn: Jan 23, 2004; Din morsa.; Grimey Drawer

I eventually got hold of a v0.3.2 Speeduino board and (almost) all the parts and built myself a unit. The intention with this is to make a "plug-and-play" unit for a 1991 Mazda 323 1.8 DOHC 24h-lemons racer, and if it works out maybe stick a turbo in it.

Also disassembled and slaughtered the ECU + wiring harness pigtails out of a scrapped donor:

Had to chop up the PCB up to desolder the connector without damaging it. Need the connector, got no use for the old ECU. I will connect the Speeduino to it via some simple breakout PCB (or maybe just solder straight to it). I also got the case for the old ECU which I'll try to reuse, but I think it is not quite tall enough to fit the Arduino + Speeduino stack.

Speeduino hooked up to a stim thing I built a few months ago. Just potentiometers for various inputs, a small arduino clone that makes Miata-style crank/cam position signals for a certain RPM, and some blinkenlights:

I verified that all the input and output pins probably do what they're supposed to, just want to toy around a bit with Tunerstudio to make sure I'm friends with this firmware.

Things I need to sort out / decide on / deal with for this ECU install:

Install the proper 2W 160ohm resistors on the speeduino (the ones in line with ignition drivers) once they arrive, just put some plain 1/4W ones there now to light up LED's.
Make Wiring Diagram of Truth. I have a few different ones for approximately the same car/engine, none are complete and they don't quite agree. Will take some investigation and probably measuring/tracing things in running car with stock ECU.
Install a proper TPS somewhere, since it seems there is only a "WOT switch".
Make some kind of enclosure for ECU.
Splice some cables to hook up wideband O2, IAT and TPS to replace existing stock sensors.
Decide what to do about VICS, which it turns out this car has. Basically just need to run a solenoid valve when over 5000rpm, should be pretty simple to sneak into the Speeduino code somewhere I reckon, but I could also have a separate little Arduino dude just for that. Or maybe I just wire it open, not sure if the difference matters for a racecar.
Figure out just what kind of crank/camshaft position sensors and signals I'm dealing with here.
Maybe make a separate build thread about my adventures with all this poo poo.

# ? May 18, 2016 00:31

honda whisperer: Mar 29, 2009

I don't think a separate build thread is required unless you're feeling it, I at least would read it here happily.

I assume VICS is some kind of dual length runner butterfly. If it is and it's going on a race car I would delete it or mechanically force it open. Low end stuff won't matter and it adds a new point of failure if you make it functuonal.

# ? May 18, 2016 23:27

noisymime: Oct 6, 2015; I tame lightning and transmute Arduinos into ECUs

ionn posted:

I eventually got hold of a v0.3.2 Speeduino board and (almost) all the parts and built myself a unit. The intention with this is to make a "plug-and-play" unit for a 1991 Mazda 323 1.8 DOHC 24h-lemons racer, and if it works out maybe stick a turbo in it.

Looking good! Do you know if this has the same pinout as the NA6 Miata with this same 48-pin connector?

ionn posted:

[*]Install the proper 2W 160ohm resistors on the speeduino (the ones in line with ignition drivers) once they arrive, just put some plain 1/4W ones there now to light up LED's.

I've being doing some experimentation with the Mazda / Mitsubishi igniters that are on these cars recently and these seem to respond better with a much lower resistor value in place of the 160 2W. If you have anything in the 5-25 Ohm range, that will work well and is still safe (1/4W will be OK).

ionn posted:

[*]Install a proper TPS somewhere, since it seems there is only a "WOT switch".

This seems fairly standard for the Mazda engines of that era, but there are quite a few that fit on relatively simply. This is the one I fitted on mine, which is nice as it has both the WOT switch and the VTPS, so you can plug the original ECU back in if you ever need to

ionn posted:

[*]Decide what to do about VICS, which it turns out this car has. Basically just need to run a solenoid valve when over 5000rpm, should be pretty simple to sneak into the Speeduino code somewhere I reckon, but I could also have a separate little Arduino dude just for that. Or maybe I just wire it open, not sure if the difference matters for a racecar.

There's the VVT code there already that you could use... It's controlled by an 8x8 3D map, but if you just populated that with values of 0 or 100 then it will work in an on/off way. I can easily add in a specific on/off mode though.

ionn posted:

[*]Figure out just what kind of crank/camshaft position sensors and signals I'm dealing with here.

I'd take a guess that it's the old 4g63 pattern as that's what basically all the Mazda/Mitsubishi 4 cylinder engines from that era were using. You never know though, so always worth checking

# ? May 19, 2016 00:21

ionn: Jan 23, 2004; Din morsa.; Grimey Drawer

honda whisperer posted:

I don't think a separate build thread is required unless you're feeling it, I at least would read it here happily.

I assume VICS is some kind of dual length runner butterfly. If it is and it's going on a race car I would delete it or mechanically force it open. Low end stuff won't matter and it adds a new point of failure if you make it functuonal.

I'm doing quite a few somewhat related but still different things at once, I'll probably stuff it all in a separate thread once I have enough to make it worthwhile.

As for the VICS, if there are any issues running it "properly", I will just tie it open and leave it. However, as it seems it's opened only at 5000rpm and with this cars gearing and on the track we're driving you spend quite some time around 3-5000rpm. I don't know how much power I would lose down there without the VICS. If the answer to that is "nothing, it is only useful for fuel economy and torque around 2000rpm", then screw it. Otherwise, I'll at least try to make it work.

noisymime posted:

Looking good! Do you know if this has the same pinout as the NA6 Miata with this same 48-pin connector?
...
I'd take a guess that it's the old 4g63 pattern as that's what basically all the Mazda/Mitsubishi 4 cylinder engines from that era were using. You never know though, so always worth checking

Most of the pins are the same, but some of them appear to be different for no apparent reason. I'll verify in-car what is what though, especially the "suspect" ones (where things differ between BG / NA6 or where the color codes don't match what I have in the loom).

The only two differences I know of between this car and a NA6 Miata ECU-wise is that I have VICS and single-coil distributor ignition. The fact that there's a distributor over the cam angle sensor is what makes me think the tooth pattern / sensor type itself could be different. Easy enough to verify with an oscilloscope though.

Being distributor ignition and semi-sequential injection, I guess it would in theory be possible to run it only on a crank angle sensor and nothing else, but we shall see what it has there. I have not seen a separate crank angle sensor anywhere (and I've had both the belt pulley and the flywheel off without seeing any trigger wheels), so I'm pretty sure it's all on the camshaft just as in my Miata.

noisymime posted:

I've being doing some experimentation with the Mazda / Mitsubishi igniters that are on these cars recently and these seem to respond better with a much lower resistor value in place of the 160 2W. If you have anything in the 5-25 Ohm range, that will work well and is still safe (1/4W will be OK).

Thanks, I'll test with that. I think my bag-o-resistors goes down to 10 ohm so I have stuff to choose from. What are those resistors (R25/27/31/32 on my 0.3.2 board) supposed to do anyway? Is it to protect the MOSFET drivers from back-current out of the ignition coil or something?
I got a second board (got two from some friendly Swedish guy who got them i bulk, saved me lots on shipping), I'll probably assemble that with just 2 injectors + 1 ignition channel and lower resistor value on R27 to use in the 323. I'll keep the fully-populated one as spare / testbench / possible experimentation in MX-5.

noisymime posted:

This seems fairly standard for the Mazda engines of that era, but there are quite a few that fit on relatively simply. This is the one I fitted on mine, which is nice as it has both the WOT switch and the VTPS, so you can plug the original ECU back in if you ever need to

I do want to be able to swap back to the stock ECU, both to keep the Speeduino when car gets scrapped, and also if something I did breaks mid-race. I got a spare VTPS somewhere (a bosch one out of a volvo), but I'm not sure it will mechanically fit, I think the popular one for Miata NA6 people is a bit different. With regards to wiring, I can probably leave the stock TPS ones in place and just reuse something else that's left over or route some new cables.

noisymime posted:

There's the VVT code there already that you could use... It's controlled by an 8x8 3D map, but if you just populated that with values of 0 or 100 then it will work in an on/off way. I can easily add in a specific on/off mode though.

Using VVT for VICS I guess is a perfectly viable solution. Only thing I was thinking of with "dedicated code" for it would be some kind of de-hysteresis like "on at 5000, off at 4800". Tough it's not likely to ever sit at 5000rpm, but rather just sweep past it going up or down. Would be possible to have some kind of "smooth transition" in the VVT table, but I don't know how well that solenoid valve with the vacuum canister would deal with being PWM controlled.

I might try to code that feature just for educational purposes anyway. Running a VICS output with hardcoded values seems trivial, doing EEPROM settings with Tunerstudio UI options is what would force me to learn new things.

# ? May 19, 2016 08:47

Tomarse: Mar 7, 2001; Grr

I built my engine loom

Still missing one connector as I mixed up junior timer and junior power timer (which both use different incompatible terminals)

I then plugged in and powered up my LPG ECU, and found that I got signals from everything I was expecting to, but I think I need to swap the pins round on my TPS as I am only getting a range of around 3.7-4.7v out of it rather than 0-5V like I was expecting.

The coolant temperature sensor that came with my manifold was also reading not what I would expect (engine off and no coolant the ECU was reporting 49/50C on a 20C day) - So I assume that this means it is not the standard Ohm range and I need to replace it with the type that I think my ECU wants (which appears to be 90-45K Ohm)

# ? May 19, 2016 23:35

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# ? May 4, 2024 23:20

Tomarse: Mar 7, 2001; Grr

I've been trying to determine what each pin on my gearbox speed sensor should be so I can wire it up properly and get my dash to work.

Its got 3 pins, so I assume should be power, gnd and signal. It came off a landrover defender td5.

I was expecting to see something like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1XzwZE6n8M, where the signal wire gives an on/off pulse, but the best I can do by randomly arranging the wires in all combinations is to get one pin to vary between around 0.3 and 0.8V as I turn the input on it.
My speedo is also expecting a pulse. Am I likely to have just not found the correct pin layout yet, or are there different types of speed sensor output?

# ? May 31, 2016 15:42

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