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What is YISUN?
Mother
A lie we tell ourselves to have a purpose
Bliss
A paradox with no solution
Father
A strong female protagonist
The weakest thing there is and the smallest crawling thing
Creator
Everything in this miserable and hellish existence
A solution with no paradoxes
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Arcanuse
Mar 15, 2019

The crowd's gotta be going wild at this turn of events :allears:

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Arcanuse
Mar 15, 2019

Dave is probably stunned at the moment; witnessing something that never occurred to them even could happen and having a lot to think about

Arcanuse
Mar 15, 2019

Tulip posted:

He's either conflicted, irrational, or both.

The flaw in his plan is very baked in. He knows that he's a lord of violence and force and that this isn't the greatest thing for a ruler, so he establishes a mechanism to unseat him and manages it, I think in good faith. He is worried that the empire he rules would fall prey to the other demiurges if they're not ruled by a supercombatant, so he makes the mechanism require beating him in combat. Turns out his school of combat is basically unbeatable unless you also master it, and mastering and using it require a single-minded devotion to violence. So he's created a paradoxical system that attempts to end a cycle of violence by finding somebody who is more dedicated and skilled at violence (this is a kind of basic flaw in a lot of meritocracies, just this one involves kung fu magic).

I don't think he is some smuglord redditor going "aha, the only way to beat me at debate is to accept my own point before we start," I think he's just not willing to take certain risks. He may be willing to risk his body in combat, which I think he does authentically believe somebody COULD beat him even if there's no evidence so far, but he's not willing to risk that somebody whose skills and aptitudes lay outside of being a kung fu monster could rule the empire. It is again the meritocracy problem: he might be ok with being replaced at an individual level, but he's not ok with being replaced by somebody who's too different.

While it's possible he's just irrational, that's something you can invoke for just about any character so should be used sparingly. He wants his empire to succeed and thrive, he wants Rayuba to never again be stripped and obliterated. He wants his children, metaphorical and other, to be safe, even when he's not around. He, like many fictional parents, is afraid of taking any risks with his children, and so keeps them and himself caged.

:hmmyes:

Had to think about this one.
Solomon, physically, can leave at any time.
He won't, because to do so would leave Rayuba in the hands of his sons, who while they might actually have the collective ability to lead an empire, they lack the strength to protect it against the various combat monsters who would inevitably come along to play at conquering/pillaging said empire.
But, Solomon doesn't have to do that. He could have, were he so inclined, prepared an heir.
Someone who was a combat monster and could run a kingdom, thus letting Solomon leave.

But he hasn't. Instead he has the Ring of Power, a tournament that entertains the public and produces little otherwise but mulch.
In theory the tournament might find a monster who could and would claim the empire for their victory, said monster even might be good at running* the empire.
But that wouldn't be enough, would it? It is all but certain that this theoretical victor would still be wanting in the eyes of Solomon; leaving Solomon with the doubt that the one drop of blood was all the inheritor could manage at their best, leaving room for someone weaker than solomon yet stronger than the candidate to come in, roast rayuba, etc.
*On a minor note, I suspect this is in part why the ring of power entrants had to fill so much paperwork: If they couldn't handle that, how could they be expected to run an empire?

Which poses a rather significant problem.

Solomon wants to leave, but fears that if he does will result in the pillaging/burning/obliteration of Rayuba round 2.
Solomon could prepare an heir to leave the kingdom, but the only way for such a candidate to be truly worthy in solomons eyes would be for them to crush Solomon utterly, thereby proving themselves capable of holding the empire.
Being crushed utterly, however, is rather inhibitive to going on a meandering journey or whatever solomon wants to be doing.
Thus, the farce that is the ring of power; a tournament where the theoretical victor who follows the rules is found wanting by its creator and that the sort of person Solomon would want to win the tournament wouldn't have needed to participate in the first place.

(Naturally, such a person has likely taken one look at this mess and decided to have nothing to do with it.)

Arcanuse
Mar 15, 2019

Royalty is a continuous jerking motion.

But in full seriousness, what is Royalty if not the greatest lie of YISUN?

Royalty does not exist except over the eyes of aspirants; myriad fools who will charge about as the idiot bull, seeing a world full of royalty yet cannot understand why they never reach it.

The truth is that they do nothing but play a game that cannot be won; where "victory" is always just out of reach no matter how many bodies they pile in the attempt.

Were one to gather the keys of all the demiurges, they still would not possess Royalty.

So how, then, does one achieve Royalty?

You don't. You wake up in the morning, brush off the annoying veil somehow left on your face and go cook noodles.

That is Royalty.

Now excuse me while I return to the field of high poles upon which all liar-philosophers uncomfortably sit, awaiting the unwary in search of unwisdom to ramble at

Arcanuse
Mar 15, 2019

Xand_Man posted:

Remind me of the babe

What babe? :v:

Arcanuse
Mar 15, 2019

that mouseover text though, hooooooooo.

Arcanuse
Mar 15, 2019

SniperWoreConverse posted:

If you could execute ki rata techniques irl what would you do with this power

I will convince people time travel is real by, over several decades, photobombing the backgrounds of as many pictures/videos as possible.
(Barring a relatively brief five year period in the latter half of decade three; getting up to bizarre nonsense seemingly unrelated to the above that will result in at least three new cryptids which I will never remark on)

Arcanuse
Mar 15, 2019

animist posted:

wasn't the original comic a forum game on the homestuck forums or whatever

A David Bowie lookalike. Oscar. I think there even was the predecessor to one of the knightly orders. It was a wild, wild precursor.

Arcanuse fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Aug 14, 2020

Arcanuse
Mar 15, 2019

wow. I thought of a few ways to do damage control, but I didn't think Solomon had it in him to even look like he conceded.

ehhhhh, is this gonna be the part we hate, Solomon following up with "nah, actually I win" and wrecking whitechain or something else happening to ruin the moment? hope not.

Arcanuse
Mar 15, 2019

TK-42-1 posted:

so what would all the demiurge gang tangs be?

worm gang
solomon’s babies
morton’s bottoms
jagghags
incubus’ codpiece
priests of the count

i don’t know enough about jadis to make a joke

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Frosty Prophets

...Time Cubists

Arcanuse
Mar 15, 2019

Donkringel posted:

Is there a Zoss crew running around right now?

Every demiurge has their own retinue/following/church/cult. I can't believe Zoss wouldn't have one. I wonder if Allison could potentially tap in to whatever Zoss crew is left.

A Zoss Posse? Might have a following among the dead, Zoss being deceased and going "nah" could give them something to aspire to; depending on how much word of that has gotten around.

Arcanuse
Mar 15, 2019

M_Gargantua posted:

Guys we got an update: Book 4 got so long that the "thing we will definitely hate" is delayed until the opening of book 5.

Ah, there it is. The thing we will hate is the ending of this tournament sequence being delayed :v:

Arcanuse
Mar 15, 2019

Huh. Had a hunch white chain was now a solidified soulflame (or something to that effect), but was wondering where the wings were.
Now I know :v:

Arcanuse
Mar 15, 2019

:words::spergin: about Keys, Royalty, and White Chain incoming.

I dunno if the keys are even as important as folks on the wheel seems to think they are.
Could just be another farce ala Royalty, petty demiurges never catching on they were squabbling over the keys to the kingdom when the window was left open, that sort of thing.
Ostensibly the keys were superweapons in addition to working with the King's Gate to open ways to worlds; but how much of the key being said superweapon was the key itself, how much from giving the owner a crutch capable of supporting an inflated ego?
An ego suitable for conquering and other incredibly stupid things a noodle vendor would consider a waste of time very much not worth the headache?
(Which is to say, I believe the pursuit of keys is another one of YISUN's little jokes.)

Now, I started typing this up meaning to discuss White Chain, so I'll get to it: The mark on White Chain's noggin looks suspiciously like a key is meant to go there, but I doubt that a key needs to or even should.
In my ramble about Royalty prior, I brought up that those pursuing Royalty are blinded idiots chasing after something they will never achieve, while those closest to Royalty discarded the pursuit to go cook noodles or whatnot.

I suspect there is a very similar case with the keys, and that White Chain has, wholly unintentionally (the only state Royalty can be truly approached) achieved a state as close to Royalty as one can get (as actually achieving Royalty is a farce) with the mark being testament to that.
Which would suggest, If the supposed superpower of the keys is indeed a farce, White Chain has outgrown the "power" they offer.
"But what of traveling to other worlds?"

I've declared my belief prior she isn't exactly an angel at this point, but a solidified (Calcified?) soulflame.

Her Want was simply strong enough that she shed her armor and became who she wished to be.
Thus, traversing the void ought to be no more difficult than it was before; if anything shedding her shell ought to make it easier without the burden of an unwanted form keeping her back.
So with traversing the void being a non-issue, that leaves the actual traveling to other universes.

Going to Zoss, as far as I can tell, he did not have a key when he entered Throne so long ago, he just broke in and tore through the place; the keys and the King's Doors coming later.
(Also the remaining Demiurges who came later, who I assume either followed after Zoss or otherwise made their own paths to Throne.)
So traveling between the universes without a key ought to be possible as well, if one wants to traverse without a key bad enough they might very well find a means to do so.

So the key offers power White Chain outgrew, opens the way to places White Chain could (eventually) find a way to already; and while wielding one would be a powerful public declaration of "I beat one of the demiurges and took their key", it runs the risk of diluting future victories by instilling doubt how much was the wielder on their own and how much was the supposedly powerful key.
(Of course, otherwise carrying it on their person ought to make the same statement minus the downside. Plus the looks on the remaining demiurges faces when they see someone using a key of kings as a broach or flint for lighting fire to cook noodles.)
(Ala using the fire of creation in the manner a hungry individual might use a rock. The comedy of this will be lost on the demiurges, I'm sure.)

------------
TLDR: White Chain punched so hard she became what she must, and doesn't need to wield a key of kings to prove anything.
(Also she achieved as close to Royalty as can be achieved, might one day prove the keys are rubbish, and very likely annoying the hell out of those who haven't caught on that Royalty + Keys are just YISUN's sense of humour at work.)
------------
Thoughts?

Arcanuse fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Aug 28, 2020

Arcanuse
Mar 15, 2019

Rigged Death Trap posted:

Yeah the keys arent the only path to royalty. Theyre incredibly powerful tools that give you a leg-up, but still tools.
and they go in the forehead because thats where the ajna chakra/third eye is, and that signifies higher consciousness or enlightenment.

A Wizard of Goatse posted:

probably more than half of the characters in the comic have some form of forehead mark, and all anything is is a manifestation of the flame, random side characters and teacups inclusive.

Aaaaah. I'd pin this on tiredbrain, but I hadn't actually noticed the prevalence of forehead marks. Learn something new, etc.
Though, I wonder how many have some kind of forehead mark to look enlightened, when they very much are not? will have to check.

RE: the update, wonder if Solomon is treating Zaid here as White Chain's prize, or if letting Zaid go is just a free bonus?

Arcanuse
Mar 15, 2019

...it occurs that depending on how often Jadis can teleport, there could've been a comically oversized Jadis board she could teleport around, slowly* spelling out prophecies or other statements

*Yet faster than trying to sssssssssspeeeeeeaaaaaaaaak anything

Arcanuse
Mar 15, 2019

wiegieman posted:

None of this has done anything about Jag being impossible to injure. It hurts, but hurting a dead man doesn't get you anywhere.

If they want to kill him, they have to hold him down and pry those nails out one by one.

As invulnerability goes, this does seem like the "easy" solution to it.
Who knows, maybe pulling even one nail out will be enough to end the invulnerability entirely?

Arcanuse
Mar 15, 2019

Mazerunner posted:

on account of how it makes you feel like you're gonna die

and also how it sears withe the heat of a sun



also spicy is an example of pain but no damage

Angel [3 Terrible Noodle Lasted Whole Lifetime] would agree

Arcanuse
Mar 15, 2019

Brought To You By posted:

Ok but the real question is how do Jadis' followers see through their cone helmets? That one guy clacking away at his terminal is not just doing that all from memory is he?

one-way mirrors? :goleft:

Arcanuse
Mar 15, 2019

Dr Subterfuge posted:

It looks to me like she's trying to control her expression and only partially succeeding. Abbadon compared her weird smile earlier to The Expression from Disco Elysium, so my guess she's attempting to hide that she herself is in a whole lot of pain.

:hmmyes:

Jadis, briefly overjoyed at being free of the literal box, remembers they are still within a cosmic metaphysical/metaphorical box.
This is not ideal, and being free of the literal box means it no longer serves as an excuse for why they haven't left the larger one.
Guessing they've been trying to muddle through this until they decide what their gonna do about it. It hasn't been going well.

Or, y'know: Nonzero chance Jadis opts to get back in the literal box. :shrug:

Arcanuse
Mar 15, 2019

YaketySass posted:

Going by this sequence:
https://killsixbilliondemons.com/comic/king-of-swords-7-62/

It's probably all worms. Including the hair somehow? Must be magic.
I think this page is a prime example for gog-cultists deal.
The rank and file aren't entirely made of worms, but contain some and are manipulated/guided/gogmind'd/puppet'd by said worms.
And at any point in time, Gog can decide to take direct control and/or make them entirely worms however they see fit. Plausibly because Gog thinks its funny.

Arcanuse
Mar 15, 2019

rannum posted:

She'll eat the worm this time but it will do nothing

"could use a little seasoning"

Arcanuse
Mar 15, 2019

hm. if an angel can become a human, wonder if a devil can go through the angels reincarnation process. or something comparable.
in any case, gog about to get smacked off the stage

Arcanuse
Mar 15, 2019

think gog asks people nicely because just eating people got boring a looooooong time ago

Arcanuse
Mar 15, 2019

Gog has entire worlds dedicated to making props, systems built, operated, and sometimes made out of Gogs for the single purpose of passing time because making everything out of worms got boring.
the ol factorio optimization bug, as it were. and working class gogs living their gogs lives make for good media, so that's a plus to tinker with between cycles

Arcanuse
Mar 15, 2019

chop it up, panfry, season to taste. Just like Gog used to make.

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Arcanuse
Mar 15, 2019

wonder what Himself would think about this development

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