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Money is a sign of poverty. Libertarians are a sign of bourgeoisie privilege in a society. Jrod is a sign of mental poverty, bourgeois privilege and the failure of the state to take care of its most societally destitute. Small wonder they're most common in America; libertarians like most parasites cannot exist outside the host body and America has a much richer incubator for terrible ideas than average. 
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Oct 10, 2015 00:23
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I think my favorite part of these threads is when people get tired of libertarian's poo poo and just explode into a bout of unpolite truth telling. These people are literally trying to obliterate all that is good and just in the world through a chosen ideology, not a heritage imposed on them, not a sense of obligation to carry out a hired job but a true and completely voluntary decision to not only take selfishly and hypocritically from the commons, but also try to remove that option from others. They are the unveiled and true evil actors in this world and a cancer on society and only because of the civility of better men and women than themselves does our figurative society politely gaze down at our navels and entertains the idea that "hmm yes perhaps there is room for the serial rapist and murderers of society at the bargaining table, everyone has their place after all..." gently caress libertarians and shame every single one agressively and vehemently until their ideology is properly left in the trash bin of history.
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Oct 15, 2015 17:09
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Nolanar posted:Libertarians have a fetish for contracts. Sure, I got a free public education and use public roads and blah blah blah, but I never signed any contract that makes me liable for taxation or subject to laws, so it would be immoral of you to try to apply those to me. You just did all that stuff out of the goodness of your heart. They have a lot in common with rapturites. "Any day now the true ideology will spread over the world like a righteous burning fire and I will be able to stand atop my pinnacle and gloat about how right I was to discount all collective responsibility and obligations to the rest of humanity!"
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Oct 15, 2015 17:44
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Tesseraction posted:At this point someone needs to step up as The Undertaker because jrod is motionless and ready to be placed six feet under. Is the undertaker a public worker because this is important for the disposition of the body.
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Oct 15, 2015 22:38
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This is not an unknown part of the cycle, he's done this before when I took the tact of explaining to him that I was the literal embodiment of all his assertions about government aggression as a government worker and it boiled down to "oh I'm sure you're a nice person when you're not commiting AGGRESSION against everyone, shame you chose to be a horrible statist which has no redeeming value what so ever" to paraphrase him. Its in the other thread rather early on. That is when I stopped responding in good faith to jrod.
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Oct 16, 2015 15:44
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YF19pilot posted:It's the idea that a government that's too big will be rife with corruption, abuse, and will abuse it's citizens which it claims to protect and represent. Like a police force that's 90+% white cops in black cities. Outside of that, it's more the idea of administrative bloat. There's more than one office chair being warmed by the backside of someone who was put there either as a political favor, or a political favor being repaid, and this is wrong because that person will abuse their power. To jrodefeld, it's more the idea that I believe a society requires a government in order to function. He thinks it doesn't, but if he supports the idea of DROs and someone to enforce the law, then he does agree that government is required to exist in some capacity, but for some reason can't wrap his mind around the concept. Do need to be careful though, because it's sometimes used by racists as a dog-whistle for cutting welfare from "those people." I can tell you as someone in government that most of our administrative bloat, and I mean most in the sense of "the majority cause of", is peoples inherent mistrust of government acting for their benefit. If for example I want to invest in a radio system to have for emergency communications, I have to document that I have requested 3 seperate bids for delivering said system if the cost of that system would exceed $X. It doesnt matter that said system may only have one vendor in the entire economic region delivering the product on spec, the assumption is always that there is too many staff working for the government, who must not be working very hard and the government is obviously wasting money somewhere even though the entire budget is visible to the public and theres no service anyone can point to as being done inefficiently. Not trying to pick on you or anything just taking the rare opportunity to make a amicable point about the inherent flaws in the "government is too big" philosophy there is very much assuredly corruption and flaws in government but because of the onerous record keeping the citizens demand from public sector workers, that the private sector never has to answer to, the only real corruption you ever see in government comes from those elected and/or appointed. "Staff" get fired, the system works. RuanGacho fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Oct 17, 2015 |
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Oct 17, 2015 19:36
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I kind of feel like there's a fruitful discussion to be had about what is and isn't effective in preventing corruption in organizations and how we can better tweak representative government to do the job we intend. Part of what got me thinking about it was the discussions of how maybe sometimes you want a Hillary Clinton which in some ways becomes a cypher for the percieved base versus a Bernie Sanders whom most would acknowledge is much more of an ideological leader, and thus less likely to change a position because he has a reason for the stance on it. I think this reasonably dovetails into this thread because despite the authors intent the contention is reliant on property is most important because government is corrupt and untrustworthy and the behavior of the wheels of government as a whole and how elected officials influence and change or don't change that I feel is a rather central and mostly unexplored subject. Maybe it merits its own thread, I don't know, I feel I have useful perspective to contribute to such a subject but lack the scope of vision required to make it inclusive to greater and larger government organizations. I have experience with corporate and small business America and local government but not bigger government than county so I would be really remiss to assume like most Americans that I have any clue at all how things are operating on the public sector on the larger scale. Generally I get the impression that corruption starts to seep in and become more villianish at the state level and above because the amount of corruption possible grows the larger the jurisdiction is. It certainly exists lower, look at sheriff apairo in Arizona, but based on my perception of things, state is where its worst. It could be however that people just don't care when the scale of "poo poo is hosed" is the town of 30,000 for the next 20 years. Edit: and by at its worst I mean that when poo poo goes sideways nationally we get stuff like no child left behind or a forever foreign war which for whatever reason we can't seem to identify the fact that it isn't working right, never mind was actually a mistake. RuanGacho fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Oct 18, 2015 |
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Oct 18, 2015 22:58
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Obdicut posted:Neither of those are the result of corruption, except in the moral definition. Right, the scale is too large, you're never going to find an email that says " we will get all our friends in the MIC everything they want by crafting policy decisions a decade before the opportunity arises and thus appropriate tax payer money for misguided genocide!! Muwahaha!!" A million is a statistic, etc. I would argue that ultimately policy crafted to stated values is moral, policy which you enact and stick with despite having the opposite outcome of your values is corruption and creates jrods. RuanGacho fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Oct 18, 2015 |
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Oct 18, 2015 23:31
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Obdicut posted:I have no idea what you're talking about. The MIC itself isn't corruption. lovely lobbying for politicians to do bad things isn't corruption, either. Health of the mother concern legislation is corrupt. It has a stated intent of protecting maternal health but it doesn't exist for that reason nor is it effective at it. E: Corruption of the political system is not just who stole money and who committed crimes. If you set out to some a city to support economic growth and the only people who show up to the planning meetings are residential developers whom will sustain public spending in your local economy for 5 years you end up with regulatory capture and the local government goes bankrupt in 15. The zones are unsustainable and the people who walked away richer for it don't have to pay the social cost. I think that's a form of corruption. The stated value is to help economic development and make the government sustainable and the outcome is a failure of the entire system. I feel like without a broader definition of corruption all you'll do is make more libertarian skeptics and ensure that public service becomes too onerous for anyone to take on. RuanGacho fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Oct 18, 2015 |
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Oct 18, 2015 23:36
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Obdicut posted:You've broadened the term 'corruption' so far now that it's useless to describe anything. Okay. I think government action that doesn't follow spirit or letter of desired outcomes and wastes resources is a pretty reasonable definition of corruption and a breach of trust but to each their own.
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Oct 19, 2015 00:54
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Obdicut posted:It does follow the letter. I think you just meant spirit. The letter of the law is followed. I guess because as someone who works in it I see overly broadly as "this process is a failure" and corruption becomes an easy catch all for law or regulation which is performing to spec but its outcomes or indicators have otherwise been "corrupted" from the valued or intended purpose. When I see a city official get canned because he did stuff that wasn't against the law but violated the intention of regulations, and didn't make any extra money off the venture and didn't do anything other than abdicated government oversight of construction projects, is that not corruption? I don't know what else you call intentional incompetence and malfeasance in government except corruption or... Libertarianism? 
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Oct 19, 2015 01:24
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spoon0042 posted:Pretty sure that was the "Republic of Minerva" built up on a reef between Tonga and Fiji before being ousted by the mighty Tongan military (and marching band). You didn't link the best part. 
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Oct 19, 2015 17:13
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Personally as an American pig dog I feel we should sell Tibet to ISIS.
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Oct 22, 2015 18:44
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HorseLord posted:another nationalist thing americans do is worship their constitution. normal countries rewrite those all the time because otherwise they stop being relevant Hot takes against the internet community most likely to advocate for creating AI to remove human error in public governance.
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Oct 22, 2015 19:09
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Nolanar posted:I mean, you're not wrong on that one. I have repeatedly called for the mass ridicule of libertarians. I will not stand for the implications that I am not for more extreme measures such as giving them wedgies!
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Oct 22, 2015 19:41
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paragon1 posted:you are going to have to be waaaaaaaaaaaay more specific Recently I had a closet libertarian tell me that post scarcity society is impossible because the world of the matrix was a post scarcity society and obviously no one wants that! I kept my mouth shut because I wasnt yet drunk enough to openly debate him on the merits of locking up dissenters in a wachoski bros. movie marathon.
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Oct 23, 2015 06:59
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Nolanar posted:His worst posts need to be preserved for posterity. The big reason he broke out of the containment thread is that it was too easy for us to find all of his terrible opinions and hit him in the face with them. He wants his support for the UAE and Qatar to be forgotten before he starts his next thread. Attention moderators: I am starting a new thread because I have important things to say that need to be liberated from the lefist aggression....
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Oct 27, 2015 19:17
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Serrath us filthy statists don't pretend to understand how any of this Lord of the Flies stuff would work outside of our devoted Norse flavored fanfiction. Most of us think the state should be stronger than the corporations it licenses but that would be absurd to libertarians.
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Nov 4, 2015 01:11
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paragon1 posted:The trick is to repeatedly and viciously insult him. I'm starting to wonder, when I thought about it I realized all my closet libertarian friends have never admitted a fault in their position. Empiricism is only valid when it supports their FYGM economic policies too.
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Nov 20, 2015 03:27
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Caros posted:Don't you routinely claim your political opponents to be thugs with guns who will come and violently oppress you? I mean I know I can go into the last thread if not this very thread and find an instance of you saying something along the lines of "Put down the gun" with which you portray every single 'statist' as a person actively assaulting you by wanting universal medical care. You do not have a high horse to sit upon here my friend. I've also noticed an increasing level of tone arguments coming from libertarians these days. Often packaged with "Surely you're open and reasonable to consider these ideas aren't you?" as if they were discussing trade theory in the old smoke room and not people's right to exist.
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Nov 20, 2015 04:24
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Another problem is that everyone with a libertarian bent wants to micromanage how taxes are spent and the only one they curiously never have any issue with is public safety aka men with guns. Somehow God does not strike them down with thunderbolts made of raw irony.
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Nov 23, 2015 09:32
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Tesseraction posted:We make fun of jrodefeld for mentioning the Oklahoma Surgery but his elective lobotomy has been a fantastic success and clearly hasn't bankrupted him. If intellectual deficits were monetary debt, the US' affluence would have caused it to implode in on itself due to the vast ignorance libertarian ideology permits. When government is functioning perfectly, no one notices its there, it is libertarian utopia, every notch of regulation created thereafter is more oppressive to freedom of action. Ergo, the state is a creation of the free market, has nothing to do with rationality and should be treated accordingly.
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Jan 19, 2016 00:32
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jrodefeld posted:No "society" doesn't "ask" me to pay my taxes to give medical care to others. I don't understand why clear language is so hard for some of you to grasp. If I don't have the option of saying "no" without being forcefully thrown in a cage, you are not "asking" me anything. You are threatening me and using violence to fund your idea of social welfare. This is the statist police, you're utilization of state resources while absolving yourself of social responsibility has been found damaging to the commons. As the state is generally fair and reasonable, you will be merely asked to disclose your total tax expenditure to the federal government. Wait... Have you ever actually paid federal taxes?
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Jan 19, 2016 00:40
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GunnerJ posted:lol no they aren't, where do you learn this baby bullshit? Human needs are finite and quantifiable if variable from human to human. We know how many calories people need to obtain from food each day and how much water they need to drink. People do not need an endless wardrobe and a house of limitless space to protect them from the elements. The optimum temperature maximums and minimums for good health and the energy needed to condition building climates to ensure they are within this range are not theoretical figures beyond the asymptote. Nobody will ever use emergency services at such a rate that if they never died, their time on the operating table or on the phone with the police/fire department would be eternal. Jesus Christ. I think it's hard for jrod to understand because he's spent the last 10 years acting the missionary of privileged sociopathy so it probably does seem plausible to him that if it would sustain him he would collect infinite medical supplies and fire Marshall staff time to maximize his own profits.
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Jan 19, 2016 01:09
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I am convinced that jrod does not pay federal taxes at this point, which makes all his gesticulating even more funny.
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Jan 19, 2016 20:01
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Jrod have you ever ended a fiscal year without the federal government giving you a refund?
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Jan 19, 2016 20:31
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I didn't see did jrod admit that he doesn't have any federal tax liability yet? Because I'm pretty sure he doesn't actually have any skin in the game.
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Jan 20, 2016 20:44
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I am passing judgement on jrod in abstensia since he's failed to show up to property court. Jrod doesn't pay federal taxes and is a poopy head. Libertarian case for self determination is hereby dismissed.
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Jan 22, 2016 20:24
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The problem a lot of people have is that they want a just world but we don't live in one. Most conservative people I know either think we have one, by God or have some level of cognitive dissonance on how the economics of government works. They will get tied up in minutiae about how how dare the government spend money like 1% of a government project being spent on public art as demanded by state law while failing to show up to any of the commissions on how that money will be spent. For a long while I have been contemplating what I as a government worker am working toward and I realized that ultimately, as described in Taoism, the best government, like leadership is one that is so ubiquitous that people just take it in stride and say " we did it ourselves". There is a subtle nuance here that libertarians miss, and a libertarian friend of mine inspired the concept. Government is the technological infrastructure that should enable free society, to allow us to cooperate, participate in markets without fear of reprisal or suffering, to go forth and do good things. When you visit foreign countries it is not hamburgers, muscle cars or wall street that makes America exceptional, its the infrastructure that allows prosperity. Once you get past the layers of justification socialism isn't even really a political philosophy so much as a baseline desire to spend resources and opportunity efficiently.
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Jan 25, 2016 16:49
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Caros posted:Jrod is way more handsome than that, come on guy. Humorous in the same way that I find it likely Jrod doesn't have a federal tax liability and yet is so deeply concerned about it. Thanks for the kind words goons, I'd like to think I'm saying something novel but I'm pretty sure everything sounds better in my head than it usually comes out.
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Jan 25, 2016 21:57
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I wonder how many libertarians have federal tax liability.
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Jan 26, 2016 02:24
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Grognan posted:I wonder if Jrod reads a board where he's hanging out and discussing about poo poo and someone from over there touched the poop here. To me this is more likely than sock puppets.
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Jan 26, 2016 03:07
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Buried alive posted:I don't remember exactly where or when, but one of your posts pointed out how often times government is such a large bureaucracy because people demand accountability and checks and balances to the point where they are limited to one supplier with exacting specifications and everything has to be filled out in quintuplicate, or whatever, to attain that accountability and then people bitch that it's slow and wasteful even though they now have all of that accountability that they asked for. That was a new take on it to me. To give context and explain a little bit, I'm specifically referring to the 17th verse of the Tao Te Ching: as translated by Stephen Mitchell posted:17 What caused me to think of this specifically is that if one is familiar with The Culture many people look at it and say something to the effect of "holy poo poo it's a libertarian's wet dream! No one asks you to do anything!". This coupled with my aforementioned libertarian friend's statement that "people just want to be left alone" that is to say it's largely true that most people aren't particularly concerned with governing and would rather be left to live their lives of managing their families, jobs and social lives, led me to think intently about how the lack of attendance in most governance isn't an indictment of democracy so much as a blessing of people being generally content with the services they have if they're continuing to join the community. No one in The Culture is particularly concerned about how things are run because they run so well, and this would probably largely true in a real life scenario too. Ideological battles are largely fought on a national stage because that's where people who have a bone to pick with society can affect the most change on a populace largely disengaged. It follows money. This is the most compelling argument to me that money should be more evenly distributed in a progressive way up through government due to the excess larger budgets draw. e: For example, local governments should be most concerned with roads and infrastructure like telecommunications, parks programs, etc. Politics is a sport because it's a game of the affluent in the first place. When I consider how much human potential is wasted because of lack of economic opportunity, which in general terms the math says there is plenty for all I drop into the mindset of the hammer who sees a nail that needs some force applied. Everything is a process problem! There is 1/4th our food wasted, but people starve. There is less population density than many developed nations and people go homeless. People die of curable disease and only for lack of ability to pay. But I preach to the choir. Ultimately, the way we incrementally advance our society is by creating our collective will for the greater good through government, and I would never begrudge people for trying to expand their mind, I learn more by letting my libertarian friend and places like this challenge my ideas, which is why Jrod and his ilk are so repugnant because they're out for quite the opposite. It is good for people to talk, and reason and think, but there is a reason why after years of working in the private sector I got into the government: quote:The master doesn't talk, he acts. I will find our Utopia. RuanGacho fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Jan 26, 2016 |
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Jan 26, 2016 08:00
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Its like he saw Sanders in Iowa and sat up in a cold fevered swear and said to himself "Maybe I'm not too late!" Jrod how much product do you move that you have a federal tax liability? RuanGacho fucked around with this message at 09:27 on Feb 2, 2016 |
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Feb 2, 2016 09:24
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Who What Now posted:This derail is outrageously boring and unproductive. Much like libertarianism at this point.
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Feb 4, 2016 00:37
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You know those people who have no short term memory? Its like a statist thug hit Jrod in the head with a tax liability while he was still in highschool and he hasn't progressed past the "no, gently caress you dad!" stage since. This thread requires the most involved shitposting I'm aware of.
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Feb 5, 2016 19:10
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Oh they make 25 cents more than the absolute minimum poverty wage in their area, checkmate statists! You know if you don't want a minimum wage the solution is a minimum income. But that would require personal responsibility like paying for services through taxes. However we all know jrod lacks the financial clout to have to pay taxes so we all must suffer the tax of his mooching libertarian nonsense on society as a whole. Just because he can't identify the externalities he inflicts on society doesn't mean they don't exist.
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Feb 5, 2016 19:39
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Lock jrod in an empty city and observe what property rights he respects.
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Feb 6, 2016 00:59
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jrodefeld posted:You, frankly, don't have a clue what you are talking about. I want to caution people that somehow think that I am somehow obsessing about race, that you all do fine obsessing about race without me. The reason I react so strongly to this character assassination attack against me, is that I personally focus a great deal on the systemic racism and discrimination that the State and private citizens inflict upon minority communities in the United States. This is a passion of mine. I love black culture, black music, black comedy and so forth. And I'm not just saying that. Since middle school, I've idolized black role models and I've identified with civil rights causes as long as I was ever politically aware. LA LA LA I DONT HAVE A FEDERAL TAX LIABILITY WHO WANTS TO TALK ABOUT SKIN COLOR?
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Feb 9, 2016 09:29
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JVNO posted:How many years has JRode been parroting the same talking points and apologetics about libertarianism? Must be north of 5 years now. I applaud anyone who addresses him in sincerity because it's clear he believes he's found the 'right' philosophy and will not budge on any ground. One time I got him to engage with me acknowledging I'm a government worker and then he tried to imply I was a horrible person for it and had to back off of it when it became obvious to even him that there was no way to hang the standard libertarian evils on me. In retrospect being how long ago that was it probably gave people the misconception that in some rare exactly targeted argument could get through to him. Nope. *Bullhorns at Jrod* What's your tax liability you racist bitchass?! E: quote:These are the elements of successful political cross-dressing. 
RuanGacho fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Feb 9, 2016 |
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Feb 9, 2016 18:17
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