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Landkreuzer is in.
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Oct 13, 2015 14:10
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Dark Off posted:Mogwai has entered the tournament. just remember to keep him off the water okay? Ah, a relative of previous tournament winner Fed After Midnight enters the fray, I see! 
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Oct 14, 2015 20:48
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Bad Munki posted:Knuckle Dragger was a horrible failure, so these adamantine gauntlets on a gremlin are a sure thing! Come on, it was a gremlin that punched a... was it a minotaur? to death. That's the opposite of failure. 
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Oct 15, 2015 02:07
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It's probably not too late to post about this in the New LP thread. Might attract extra audience.
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Oct 15, 2015 11:56
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If it's the same case here, I'm with... Afriscipio (not bad) Ramc (so good so far) ... the panty thief yeti guy kill me
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Oct 15, 2015 16:07
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Tunicate posted:We'd need to define a variable to track how many arms a character had. Would we call the varialble determining whether someone has arms or not... ArmOK?
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Oct 16, 2015 02:22
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OK, Team 7, Contact me at sa goon my dad at gee mail dot com edit: Jazz, make sure to leave enough time for people to get in contact, and plan out team stuff before starting the tournament.
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Oct 16, 2015 19:23
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Mr. Vile posted:OK, sent you an email, hopefully to the right address. Is it one word or separated by underscores? One word. You got it right.
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Oct 16, 2015 21:29
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Accept their gimmick and start optimizing from there. It's a lot more fun for everyone involved, since it doesn't turn into the unfun situation of taking control over fighters from your teammates (I was too pushy in the first team test tournament, and we paid for it) Not counting gremlin-sized martial artists and such, I'm yet to see a build that can't be made to work with a bit of tweaking. edit: Wait, no, Bad Munki's gremlin martial artist managed to kill something. So... yeah... my dad fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Oct 18, 2015 |
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Oct 18, 2015 03:08
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Randomness is a big part of the fun, mostly because it allows builds that are "just crazy enough to work", especially when you know exactly what kind of crazy you need. To use the career of my armored snakeman Tincan from a previous tournament as an example - I went with a gimmick steel plated biter build for the first fight and won. I figured my next oponent will try to counter my gimmick with some armor of their own to avoid getting owned by venomous bites, so I changed my build and countered the counter by buying a hammer and enough skill to reliably use it, and had fun reading the surprised reactions in the thread after I easily won the fight. Then, I was up against a molemarian with an axe. I figured that the only way for me to lose the fight is for the other guy to upgrade his weapon to adamantine, so I went ahead and upgraded my armor to counter this. Except, that's not what he did. Instead of going for a conservative, and generally excellent build that would unfortunately get him killed in this particular fight, he went for something crazy that might actually beat my fighter, even though it was somewhat of a long shot: He sold his weapon and respecced to unarmed fighting. The fight ended with his fighter being on the ground and close to death, and then suddenly grabbing the hammer out of my fighter's hands and beating her to a pulp with it. I genuinely enjoyed that loss more than I'd have enjoyed winning the fight, because holy poo poo, that was a really cool last second twist, and it wasn't just lolrandomness, it was the result of a creative, gutsy plan by that ended up working. How could I be upset about that? my dad fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Oct 18, 2015 |
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Oct 18, 2015 04:09
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A set of slade gauntlets.
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Oct 19, 2015 20:30
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I thought martial trances were turned off in this version. Huh.
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Oct 20, 2015 18:05
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Godna posted:Huh I thought our fight was up first...I'dhave bet on this fight had I known It doesn't matter. You don't get your winnings until the end of the round.
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Oct 20, 2015 18:27
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Hell, host the contents of every post on the LPix test poster so that the fights can be viewed once this thread falls into archives, and link to that.
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Oct 21, 2015 07:01
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Dory's dory's hunky dory for this gory glory.
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Oct 21, 2015 15:28
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The AI considers sharp damage a priority 90% or so of the time, to avoid slapping people with the flat of a sword too often, but this causes the problem when dual wielding a blunt and a sharp weapon, since you'll almost never use the blunt one, barring attacks of opportunity caused by the fighting skill. There are two kinds of damage: Sharp and blunt. Piercing is weird since it's technically both at the same time. Sharp damage is mostly about cutting and resisting properties of materials. Under most circumstances, material A can't cut material A, and you have a fairly strict ranking of materials from worst to best (equal materials are in the same line): tooth, leather silver, platinum copper (the most frequent exception to "A can't cut A" rule) iron, bronze steel adamantium In general, a person armed with a higher tier material can pretend the other person isn't wearing armor at all, but on the other hand their weapon is completely useless against equal and above tier armor. Howerver, armor thickness scales with the size of its wearer, so really small dudes like gremlins&co can't fully rely on this, especially when facing big guys. Weapon cuts will sever poo poo, and cause more bleeding than pain most of the time. Under most usual circumstances, this is all you really need to know about sharp stuff. Now, let's see where attack velocity, penetration depth and surface contact area come to shine. The faster a weapon goes, the more dangerous it is. The deeper a weapon can go, the more damage it can do, obviously. Dagger cuts have such a low penetration depth that sometimes they can't even reach skin through armor they've technically pierced. The larger the contact area, the more armor there is to resist the weapon, which can also alter how materials interact - namely, good weapons bouncing off bad armor. However, weapons with a large surface area can cause MASSIVE damage, and weapons that combine a large surface area with deep penetration tend to sever limbs a lot. Picks and their related skill are extra expensive because they have a high velocity and hit the surface/penetration sweet spot required for maximum carnage. Small surface area, deep weapon penetration = piercing damage (there's an exact threshold but I don't know the number) about which I'll talk later. In addition to this, there's also mass and the strength of the wielder to take into account. You see, the way sharp attacks work is that they cut through layers of armor, slightly slowing down, until they run into something that stops them. Then, the damage converts to blunt damage. A yeti with a bronze two hander might not be able to cut through a suit of adamantine mail, but the suit isn't rigid, and a good hit might still break his target's ribs or something. On the other hand, adamantium weighs about as much as styrofoam, and is, ironically, the worst weapon material for dealing with adamantine grade armor. Blunt damage is pretty much Hulk smash. You take something heavy, swing it with force, and hope the target breaks. It causes a small amount of bleeding, and a lot of pain in addition to broken bones. Armor quality is similar to the list above, except weight of the armor also mattere, so bronze armor is slightly better than iron armor (though also heavy enough to slow your fighter down a bit so it balances out), and platinum armor is better than copper armor. You don't have a strict weapon material hierarchy. Some are better than others, but they can all work on the same targets. The blunt material ranking is: copper silver platinum It's fairly simple: Blunt weapons are only really resisted by rigid armor. They're weakened (not stopped) by thick layers of meat, skin, and fat, which is why it's slightly weaker against big guys in general. The heavier your weapon is, the harder it hits. The stronger and more skilled the user is (agility kinda sorta adds to skill), the harder it hits. The smaller the contact area and the higher the velocity, the better it penetrates. This is why warhammers are so good. Also, hit something enough and it'll weaken, so even if you didn't break it on the first try, it will eventually give way. But again, large surface area means you hit a bigger part of your oponent, so platinum mauls get to explode people's torso's sometimes, despite not quite having the punch of the warhammers. There's more mechanics to this, but I ain't touching them since they're kinda complicated, and you don't really need them here. Pierci Nope Nope Nope Nope I am not even gonna try to explain that poo poo
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Oct 21, 2015 20:35
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dasmause posted:Well, if sharp damage is penatration that converts into blunt, and blunt is blunt that stays as blunt, maybe piercing is penetration that stays as penetration? No, it just... Under normal circumstances it acts like sharp damage most of the time, albeit better at damaging internal organs at the price of not severing limbs nearly as well, except sometimes it acts like a blunt weapon when you don't expect it to, especially in its interaction with armor. And sometimes it looks as if it counts the blunt damage first and then converts to sharp. But when and how it decides to do that would take a looooot of words and some guesswork to explain. Strength is a factor, and so is the contact area and the weight of the weapon.
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Oct 21, 2015 21:55
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If you're a snake with a hammer, extra fighting means you'll sometimes suddenly bite people, which is a good thing. If you're a human with a sword, extra fighting means you'll sometimes suddenly bit people, which is a bad thing.
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Oct 22, 2015 17:33
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If there was a way to have wooden swords as a separate sword skill using weapon in the arena that was blunt by design, I'd genuinely use it as a secondary (effectively) parry-only weapon on a sword user.
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Oct 22, 2015 20:19
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Revenant Threshold posted:Can't you do that with bows? Things might have changed, but I think at one point a one-hand-wielded bow with no arrows did blunt damage from sword skill. I had a build I was musing on that was sword/bow, no arrows, pump sword skill. Huh. That's not actually a bad idea. It's even really cheap, and a copper one can work like an emergency melee weapon in case something goes wrong with the actual sword. I'll test it out in a bit.
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Oct 22, 2015 20:52
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Krysmphoenix posted:My original bow-bold build was to start a match with a Platinum/Silver Bow and 2-3 arrows. Enough to shoot the enemy as they approach you, then bludgeon them to death when they're in your face. If this wasn't a team-fight, this would be exactly what I would be using. The advantage of a blunt sword is in not using it in combat. I love me some dual wielding, but after Urist McTantrum, I realized the problem that fighters use parry weapons for things other than parrying. Due to how blunt weapons are treated by the AI, a parrying bow wouldn't be a problem since you would almost never try to hit anything with it until you lose your sword arm, at which point you still have a not-completely useless weapon you can at least parry and hurt small or downed fighters with.
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Oct 22, 2015 21:37
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ZeeToo posted:This is simplicity itself if you're not hung up on the terminology. It's a two-minute raw rewrite to add a main gauche or whatever that's labeled "sword, does blunt damage". I meant in the tournament. I know how to mod DF files - who doesn't like playing a round of adventure mode as a 4-armed slade colossus?
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Oct 23, 2015 04:08
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Ghostwoods posted:Given the randomness of both DF combat and the Arena Challenge process, I really doubt that a +1 to top skill is going to be especially significant. Give it a few rounds, and we'll get a better idea of how decisive it really is. You can't really fairly change it mid-season unless you're at a point where everyone has had the same number of home-field matches. It's a small sample size, but it's actually kind of a major advantage. You have an increased chance to parry if you outskill your enemy as far as I know, which gives a fairly decisive advantage in equal fights. The fact that it's still random desn't make it fair.
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Oct 23, 2015 18:37
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Ghostwoods posted:Yeah, but the fights aren't equal. The entire point of the Arena Challenge is that they're mostly batshit-crazy and ultra-complex. Also, the randomness I'm talking about is in the system, and nothing to do with the home field advantage, and yes, it's not fair, but over time it will even out. I'm currently complaining about something that is giving me an advantage, you know.
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Oct 23, 2015 19:14
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ChickenWing posted:Is it possible to give fighters the stat equivalent of a "morale boost"? Actually, yes, but morale is turned off by default because the fights between undisciplined combatants would basically be "1 person gets injured/killed, everyone else, including the attacker, runs into a corner and starts weeping and wailing about the horrors of war"
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Oct 23, 2015 21:09
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Krysmphoenix posted:Instead we just fight while weeping and wailing about the horrors of war. Yeah. Dwarf Fortress runs its emotions simulation event when their consequences are turned off, as can be seen from the not-very courageuos warcries of the arena fighters. Or when the character you control in the adventure mode starts crying because you made them kill a friend and they couldn't do anything about it but blindly obey.
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Oct 23, 2015 21:16
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It's like wet towel whipping, except the towel is made of iron rings and wet with blood.
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Oct 24, 2015 00:43
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Well, that's a lot better than my steel plated glass jaw minotaur from the previous tournament. 1 measly punch was all it took. 
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Oct 24, 2015 03:33
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A good bowbold, and an effective Bad Munki build? What has this world come down to?
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Oct 26, 2015 17:25
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AnoHito posted:I'm guessing the points don't earn the interest between these rounds? What, it would be a mere 2662% return on anything you had left over at the start of this round, not counting extra points given inbetween, why are you so worried about that? e: It would be a hilarious thing if it really happened since the optimal build would be to spend 4, 5 or 6 rounds not spending anything, and then swatting the remaining enemy teams thanks to double+ the point count and still coming out in the top half. my dad fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Oct 26, 2015 |
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Oct 26, 2015 17:29
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Is anyone interested in me making a post about armor coverage and weapon specifics, including pics of what their equivalents would look like in real life?
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Oct 26, 2015 18:56
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Problem: That's vanilla DF, not the arena mod, which is why I'm making an effortpost instead of linking there in the first place. edit: But, still, it's pretty good explanation, though breastplates don't work the same way anymore, and (un)reliability is a thing that exists for mail.
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Oct 26, 2015 20:05
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I'll start off with the stuff mentioned above, and add more in small, easy to digest posts: OK. First off, to clarify something to people who played regular Dwarf Fortress. This is what a breastplate looks like in real life (and how it's more-less modeled in unmodded DF):   (Incidentally, the armor above was worn IRL by a woman. Does it look like a goddamn boobplate to ya?) This is what a "breastplate" looks like in the arena:  It's not really a breastplate, in the way we normally think of it, but since the game lacks a rigid way to cover upper arms and the neck otherwise, it was a necessary change in the arena mod. I like to imagine it having comically oversized Warhammer style extended shoulderpads with sponsor logos painted on. Gameplaywise, it's important to note that this is the thickest piece of armor available, and that it takes a lot of strenght+size+skill to penetrate it with equal/inferior tier weaponry. Now, the mail suit looks like this:   First of all, it's not rigid at all, so it provides almost no protection against blunt weapons. Second, in the arena (unlike unmodded DF), it only works 80% of the time, thanks to purchasing it from the lowest bidder. 1 in 5 hits are going to go through it like it isn't there. However, it's the cheapest metal protection considering the surface it covers and still having fairly high reliability. my dad fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Oct 26, 2015 |
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Oct 26, 2015 20:19
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Next up, other armor: Gauntlets:   There really wasn't much of a reason to put in a picture since google gives a bajillion of them, but why not (imagine the armor going up to the elbow). Basically, rigid protection for hands and forearm. Alongside low boots and caps, thinnest piece of armor available. Gremlins shouldn't count on them working against even light armor piercing abilities, and yetis shrug because theirs are still thicker than most people's breastplates. Helms:   Any big piece of metal that covers the entire head. People come up with the weirdest ideas of how they should look like. Saves your noggin from bad stuff. The above is 100% no joke an actual historical helm worn by a monarch. Strictly speaking, it's not 100% reliable, but the 2% chance of it failing is only likely to come up when a fighter is unconscious on the ground, being dogpiled by the enemy team. Sadly, due to Toady's coding mishaps, it's not possible to mod it to cover the neck, too. Caps:   It's basically a helmet, though they way vanilla DF models it, it's more of a metal kippah, with only 50% reliability, unlike 75% provided by arena caps. Greaves:   Stuff you carry on your legs to avoid having them chopped off. IRL, don't cover what DF describes as "lower body" at all, but due to how DF models the body, they can't be implemented like that at all. Only way to provide rigid armor for the thighs. Low Boots:   Not much to say. Boots. You wore them at some point in your life, though they probably had a lot less metal in them. High Boots:  What some ladies like to wear when going on a night out, except made of metal and without the high heels. For completeness' sake, here's how leather armor works:  Its main job is to protect you from bites and soften blunt weapon blows a bit. Good padding for underneath mail armor, or if you're fighting molemarians, snakemen, or antmen, not much use otherwise. And here's the mail paints:  I don't think anyone ever bought them in tournament history. Here's a nice example of people wearing what DF would describe as steel breastplate + steel cap + steel gauntlets + steel greaves(best seen on the middle guy) + leather high boots + steel long sword:  Here's what my team's yeti looks like:  Here's how full medieval armor worked: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvCvOC2VwDc Weapons in my next post, whenever I bother making it. fake edit: Tunicate posted:I thought last time it was 75%. Is there a full changelog? I thought it was 75% too, but the OP says 80%, so I imagine it changed inbetween. real edit: What DF doesn't model, and what the biggest problem when making armor was, is that it was really loving hard to properly protect joints while still keeping mobility. That's where the weakspots were. my dad fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Oct 26, 2015 |
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Oct 26, 2015 21:23
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Klokwurk posted:Awww. Basically, the strangler started charging an enemy, except someone else moved into the tile where the enemy used to be. The size difference resulted in the goblin bouncing off.
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Oct 29, 2015 00:29
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Ramc posted:So what is the smiley for when a yeti throws a mole into the air, the mole gets hit by en elf in the guts so hard that he pukes and the force of that puke changes the trajectory of his flight 90 degrees to spike on his teammate like a flesh-rending vomit comet? Artists!?  e: Or  e2: I wish I knew (not really) what this one meant, I imagine it's an Undertale spoiler of some sort.
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Oct 29, 2015 01:22
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Bene Elim's fighter is not bad, Uma's player gambled by going for early steel and so far the gamble hasn't paid off, Solomon is the weak start of a very good build, but is also a gamble, since he needs teammates who can cover for him, and the dwarf is... Yeah... Sorry about being slow with the promised weapons post, something came up IRL a few days ago which delayed me a bit, I'll probably make it fairly soon.
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Oct 30, 2015 17:21
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jon joe posted:Matches are pre-determined. http://arenachallenge.com/dwarffort/view_schedule.php?9 Ah, investing points in your "completely missing the point" skill, I see.
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Oct 31, 2015 04:09
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Added Space posted:Why am I missing so many bites? I wasn't missing this much in trials I did. How much dodging skill did you give your test dummies?
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Oct 31, 2015 21:17
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| # ¿ Apr 28, 2024 13:50 |
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OK, here's a quick explanation of weapon stats relevant to the arena, and how they work.
In general, I think the weapons available need some balancing and diversification. But there's plenty of time to figure out exactly how. My next post about game mechanics will be about the specifics of every weapon, alongside some pretty pictures. Maybe it'll give some of you an idea about how to improve things.
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Nov 2, 2015 00:16
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