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Scudworth posted:He answered that right on this very page already. Do I look like the type of person to READ a thread? Sheesh
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Nov 1, 2015 08:50
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Jiro Kage posted:It's the only uniformed federal policing that doesn't have long rifles available because....TSA. To be fair, the fact that they allow TSA to have anything at all more dangerous than a ball of yarn is a bit alarming.
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Nov 1, 2015 13:24
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Jiro Kage posted:VIPR team - visible intermodal prevention and response. It's not a rifle, its a team that air marshals can be part of. I love how organisations such as this insist on 'cool'-sounding names for their teams. They could be part of the 'Proactive Overt Tactical Intervention' team; oh no, someone spent an entire afternoon doodling in the back of his exercise book before he came up with 'VIPR' - probably with lots of drawings of tanks and rocket planes. No doubt he was very disappointed that the uniform patch didn't feature a liger.
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Nov 1, 2015 14:28
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I want to hit the guy that came up with PATRIOT act.
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Nov 1, 2015 14:37
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MrYenko posted:To be fair, the fact that they allow TSA to have anything at all more dangerous than a ball of yarn is a bit alarming. The TSA was our administrative and funding controllers and parent agency, with DHS above that. Aside from that, the Air Marshals aren't really the TSA, and in fact, used to be part of ICE. It's still too much. I'd be surprised to find people having problems with FAMs like they do with the TSA members. But hey man if you want to say we are part of the problem with the TSA, have at it.  quote:I love how organisations such as this insist on 'cool'-sounding names for their teams. We didn't get patches =[ The name was pretty funny with local law enforcement too, we used to get a lot of "VIPR, hissssss" from them. Jiro Kage fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Nov 1, 2015 |
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Nov 1, 2015 16:11
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Jiro Kage posted:The TSA was our administrative and funding controllers and parent agency, with DHS above that. Aside from that, the Air Marshals aren't really the TSA, and in fact, used to be part of ICE. It's still too much. I'd be surprised to find people having problems with FAMs like they do with the TSA members.
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Nov 1, 2015 17:58
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Tendai posted:I think most people probably don't realize that FAM falls under the TSA umbrella, I didn't before this post. I'd always sort of assumed that they were Homeland Security or DOJ, it made sense to me logically and I had no idea till you mentioned it. When you think about it, the FAM are effective and competent. This is directly against what the TSA stands for, so I bet the majority people had the same belief as you and I.
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Nov 1, 2015 18:17
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Tendai posted:I think most people probably don't realize that FAM falls under the TSA umbrella, I didn't before this post. I'd always sort of assumed that they were Homeland Security or DOJ, it made sense to me logically and I had no idea till you mentioned it. It's because they managed to maintain a sort of autonomy - such as the schooling, the mission, and the biggest one, the funding and budget. Unfortunately, all of those are now falling under the TSA, and once former TSA administrators start running the agency, it's destined for a downhill turn. Quite possibly the mission and requirements of the job alone will keep it from becoming another TSA mess, but I don't really know. It's already pretty bad at the top level.
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Nov 1, 2015 18:49
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Jiro Kage posted:
I talked to some cargo/airport security side, and it seems like those people have it together. It's just most people only interact with the airport screening side so when TSA is mentioned, everyone get's lumped into the shitshow...
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Nov 1, 2015 19:45
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spog posted:When you think about it, the FAM are effective and competent. This makes me wonder, what have FAMs done? I understand the deterrent factor, but have you got any stories about an agent having some sort of action on a flight?
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Nov 1, 2015 19:54
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TCD posted:I talked to some cargo/airport security side, and it seems like those people have it together. It's just most people only interact with the airport screening side so when TSA is mentioned, everyone get's lumped into the shitshow... I work on the backside of an airport and I can confirm the TSA agents who work on that side are much more competent and give a lot more of a poo poo than the people who work the passenger screening areas. We have undercover TSA agents who try to sneak past our security measures on a regular basis and the company gets nailed with fines if any of them manage to get in.
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Nov 1, 2015 20:29
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ColdPie posted:This makes me wonder, what have FAMs done? I understand the deterrent factor, but have you got any stories about an agent having some sort of action on a flight? Terrorism? No. There has been a FAM shooting though in Miami: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Rigoberto_Alpizar - He was completely nuts, and it is unfortunate he was shot. What isn't told in that article is how the wife later said that she thought they had acted appropriately. It also shows you how even people trained to shoot well can have their aim degrade under stress. The other thing they don't mention is that they shot through the backpack, which was what he claimed had the bomb. Oops. There was this entertaining non-shooting international incident: http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/10/21/us.brazil.air.marshals/ - I actually met the wife of one of these Air Marshals last year, and they had just had interpol warrants lifted off of them. Also, the Continental pilot actually delayed the aircraft leaving until he was sure the Air Marshals were onboard because he knew what was going on, something they were really grateful for. They didn't do anything wrong, and she fought them tooth and nail, literally, just because she couldn't get drinks on her own. I've had a few coworkers make arrests for alcohol or domestic violence. The one time it could have been me making the arrest I didn't even know - a fight broke out in the back, and the flight attendants handled it and didn't feel the need to come get us. Fine by me. On the VIPR side, we have been party to a ton of different arrests and takedowns. There are too many to even consider, but they are all classified as assisting officers to the local stakeholder.
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Nov 1, 2015 21:03
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Sappo569 posted:Do I look like the type of person to READ a thread? It's ok, I didn't find it either. e: Actually I did find it. Anyway, wouldn't rifles be considerably more dangerous from an over-penetration standpoint? I'm about to do a reread but I assume you'd be using frangible poo poo but even that could go wrong fast. I guess it's better than losing an entire planeload, absolutely tho Frostwerks fucked around with this message at 10:43 on Nov 2, 2015 |
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Nov 2, 2015 10:36
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VIPR teams don't work in planes, though, they operate in and around airports, naval ports, train stations, etc.
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Nov 2, 2015 14:27
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Captain Bravo posted:VIPR teams don't work in planes, though, they operate in and around airports, naval ports, train stations, etc. So...no VIPRS on a Plane?
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Nov 2, 2015 14:37
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Did you ever encounter any snakes on a plane in your job?
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Nov 2, 2015 14:41
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Jiro Kage posted:But hey man if you want to say we are part of the problem with the TSA, have at it. As I said before, I consider the FAM service to be essentially the only part of the TSA that SHOULDN'T be immediately defunded and disbanded. If all of TSA was trained, and operated at the level of competence and professionalism that I've experienced in my limited contact with FAMs, it'd be a different story, but the majority of your parent organization needs help with their Velcro shoes in the morning.
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Nov 2, 2015 15:28
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MrYenko posted:As I said before, I consider the FAM service to be essentially the only part of the TSA that SHOULDN'T be immediately defunded and disbanded. If that was the case I probably wouldn't have left that job, even with the ridiculous hours and lack of sleep. Which, not so surprisingly, has hosed my sleep to the point I have trouble getting to sleep now even when I'm tired. Yeah VIPR don't go on planes. I can't even imagine trying to conceal a rifle in regular clothes 
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Nov 2, 2015 15:39
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I feel you on the sleep thing. I used to work straight 12 hour night shifts, and now I work a rotating shift with days and nights. I'm so screwy when it comes to sleep, it's not even funny.
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Nov 2, 2015 15:44
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Jiro Kage posted:
I remembered reading this and thinking to myself "and that's the last time any FAM would forget to bring their tourist passport along with them to work..."
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Nov 2, 2015 16:52
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MrYenko posted:I feel you on the sleep thing. I used to work straight 12 hour night shifts, and now I work a rotating shift with days and nights. I feel for you all working those kind of hours. I worked swing shift for about a year and will not do it again. I had more physical and emotional problems during that time than I ever had before. Working set third shift wasn't near as bad though.
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Nov 2, 2015 20:41
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MrYenko posted:I feel you on the sleep thing. I used to work straight 12 hour night shifts, and now I work a rotating shift with days and nights. We had certain flight/mission portions that were 16 hours long. Tacking on travel and preparation, and we were easily moving for 20 hours straight. quote:I remembered reading this and thinking to myself "and that's the last time any FAM would forget to bring their tourist passport along with them to work..." Oh hell yes. That cannot be ever be overstated.
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Nov 3, 2015 04:20
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Why did you go non-6(c)? It's pretty feasible to swap to another law enforcement agency. Though I guess four years in its not a huge investment. I'm a FLEO and can carry on a flight if I want, but I haven't before. Mostly I hate commercial air travel and if I'm on an airliner I want alcohol in my hand. If I did decide to carry on a flight, what would make life easier for the FAM? Do you want me to deal with non-terroristic violations of law on a plane so you don't have to blow your cover over some minor rear end in a top hat? Do you guys actually like / trust a non-FAM armed on the plane, or is it a wildcard you'd rather not deal with? Can confirm your fighting and firearms training is superb. We had a former FAM in our annual refresher this year and he was pretty legit. He also talked a lot of poo poo about working there, but said he made a lot of money.
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Nov 6, 2015 01:58
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Do you typically fly Couch or do you get to fly in First Class with the big, comfy seats at least every once in awhile? Is there a rough split between Couch and First Class? 10/90? Are you typically in a aisle seat? Are you guys just dressed like a normal casual vacation goer, suits, or business casual? I only ask because my wardrobe is almost entirely the civilian version of undercover, military/police clothes because they are extremely useful for my job, and I bet if someone got a good look at me they might think I could be a FAM. Yes, I know you might not be able to talk about specifics, but if anyone flies even 1/20 as much as you did, then they will know how much Couch loving sucks. Great thread BTW.
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Nov 11, 2015 08:14
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IndianaZoidberg posted:Do you typically fly Couch or do you get to fly in First Class with the big, comfy seats at least every once in awhile? Is there a rough split between Couch and First Class? 10/90?
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Nov 11, 2015 14:38
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IndianaZoidberg posted:Are you guys just dressed like a normal casual vacation goer, suits, or business casual? I only ask because my wardrobe is almost entirely the civilian version of undercover, military/police clothes because they are extremely useful for my job, and I bet if someone got a good look at me they might think I could be a FAM. Apparently there was a dress code mandating suits at one point, but it was relaxed later.
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Nov 11, 2015 16:29
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Tendai posted:This makes me wonder what the ratio of people being assholes on planes is like between first and coach, now that I think about it. On the one hand, coach has more people, but on the other hand, first class has free/reduced price alcohol which seems to be what makes most people act like fuckasses on airplanes (like the dude who leaped up and poo poo on the food cart some years back) That only applies on domestic flights. Overseas flights usually have free booze in economy.
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Nov 11, 2015 17:36
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Tendai posted:... (like the dude who leaped up and poo poo on the food cart some years back) I remember the singer for REM getting arrested for this in the early 2000s. Wonder how many times it's happened without being reported on.
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Nov 11, 2015 18:19
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Blue Footed Booby posted:I remember the singer for REM getting arrested for this in the early 2000s. Wonder how many times it's happened without being reported on. Probably a lot. I mean, how can you discriminate between a fresh dook and what was supposed to be there in the first place?
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Nov 11, 2015 19:25
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Blue Footed Booby posted:I remember the singer for REM getting arrested for this in the early 2000s. Wonder how many times it's happened without being reported on. It was the guitarist.
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Nov 12, 2015 01:01
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Tendai posted:This makes me wonder what the ratio of people being assholes on planes is like between first and coach, now that I think about it. On the one hand, coach has more people, but on the other hand, first class has free/reduced price alcohol which seems to be what makes most people act like fuckasses on airplanes (like the dude who leaped up and poo poo on the food cart some years back) Transocean first is pretty chill in my experience.
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Nov 12, 2015 01:39
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IndianaZoidberg posted:Do you typically fly Couch or do you get to fly in First Class with the big, comfy seats at least every once in awhile? Man, I don't know why you hate this so much, that looks pretty dang comfy to me. 
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Nov 14, 2015 18:51
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IndianaZoidberg posted:Do you typically fly Couch or do you get to fly in First Class with the big, comfy seats at least every once in awhile? Is there a rough split between Couch and First Class? 10/90? Sorry but you did it a LOT in this post and I'd want to be told if I unknowingly did the same... It's "coach" not "couch." EFB by minutes.
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Nov 14, 2015 18:54
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 I will see my self out.
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Nov 14, 2015 23:15
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Kazak_Hstan posted:Why did you go non-6(c)? It's pretty feasible to swap to another law enforcement agency. Though I guess four years in its not a huge investment. Quite simply, I couldn't make it in time. I HAD to get out of that job. After my last flight when a president of a foreign country was aboard and my agency decided not to let me know, it was time for me to cut and run with my new position as quickly as possible. I love my new job, and it's for a much better agency doing a lot better work. I also cannot pass polygraphs for some reason - 6 separate polygraphs and all said I was lying on a different question. I have no idea why, but there is nothing I can do about it. I would take NCIS in a heartbeat if I could make it in. We will always talk to other armed leo's before a flight and let you know what the deal is there. We like having more armed people on a plane, usually, as long as they seem to be listening to us when we talk to them before the flight. You make a ton of money but it's all based on how long you are away from home. It sucks. quote:Do you typically fly Couch or do you get to fly in First Class with the big, comfy seats at least every once in awhile? Is there a rough split between Couch and First Class? 10/90? I won't talk about seating specifics - sorry about that. FAMs are undercover always (with very few exceptions) so take that as you will. quote:Apparently there was a dress code mandating suits at one point, but it was relaxed later. This was a direct consequence of the reason that the agency is so hosed up, and that is because it was run by Secret Service agents who just do not understand the position. A lot of the senior leadership are still retired Secret Service guys that are double dipping and are loving horrible. The dress code was so bad that people used to get in trouble for taking their coats off if the flight was too hot or they were moving through the airport. There are a bunch of stories of those same secret service guys waiting for people to get off a flight to try and ding them on "uniform". quote:This makes me wonder what the ratio of people being assholes on planes is like between first and coach, now that I think about it. On the one hand, coach has more people, but on the other hand, first class has free/reduced price alcohol which seems to be what makes most people act like fuckasses on airplanes (like the dude who leaped up and poo poo on the food cart some years back) First class, easily. There's an entitlement issue there, and in the back you have the passenger posse that often deals with issues quickly. quote:Sorry but you did it a LOT in this post and I'd want to be told if I unknowingly did the same... It's "coach" not "couch." I just assumed it was a phone post and there was some strange autocorrect stuff going on. What makes it worse is the banner at at the top says "Live free. Couch hard." It's loving with my head now! quote:Transocean first is pretty chill in my experience. After that meal and until about 2 hours landing, usually, yeah. You have a lot more people thinking they can do whatever the hell they want in first class, though.
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Nov 14, 2015 23:42
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Jiro Kage posted:FAMs are undercover always (with very few exceptions) so take that as you will.
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Nov 15, 2015 02:09
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Craptacular posted:When would a FAM not be undercover? VIPR or an emergent (as in arriving at something that already happened) situation are the two I experienced. VIPR is the only definite one.
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Nov 15, 2015 02:13
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Oh I thought you meant "not undercover on a plane", not on a VIPR team or something.
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Nov 15, 2015 02:22
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What's the starting pay for a FAM? Are FAMs payed on the GS scale, or that odd SV pay band system that most of TSA uses? Around 2.5 years ago TSA was going to change the carry-on rules to allow small knives and some sporting equipment. (Only to backpedal in the face of intense backlash.) Would that have had a significant effect on your job? (Due to drunken pax/terrorists possibly wielding tiny pocket knives, golf clubs and the odd hockey stick)
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Nov 15, 2015 03:39
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Silver95280 posted:What's the starting pay for a FAM? Are FAMs payed on the GS scale, or that odd SV pay band system that most of TSA uses? It's the SV scale, and Fams start at the G scale - it's pretty significant. One year to H, and then another to I. Without military or prior federal police experience, you are on probation for those 2 years. A standard flying FAM pay is equivalent to GS-13/14 depending on their prior service. It was a HORRIBLE idea as far as I'm concerned. While sitting on the ground a small knife isn't such a big deal. But in a small, pressurized tube 35k feet up, even that small knife can do damage that someone can't recover from, especially if they are over an ocean. Some of the sporting equipment is the same idea, but I believe a line has to drawn between reality and the need to transport stuff and the chance of it being used as a weapon. The fact remains, there are already so many weapons on a plane that I highly doubt one of them (something brought on by a passenger) will be what someone tries to use. My personal thought is that it will be an insider. But to answer that, yes, it would probably would have gotten us in trouble because we would have had to react a lot more violently to someone that was combative. If that makes sense to people that have never had to arrest someone before. Let me put it this way - I got into an argument with a goon who said that a police officer was supposed to put themselves in danger. I vehemently argued that was a stupid statement. The work is inherently dangerous, but there is no reason they have to make it even more dangerous. This would do just that, and increase the response necessary by a certain proportion.
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Nov 15, 2015 04:12
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