Spectre: It's Been a Long Time

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Spectre: It's Been a Long Time

DStecks: Feb 6, 2012

Magnetic North posted:

I mean, Bond has always been a function of its time; I'd say Live and Let Die and Moonraker are the most obvious examples of a Bond film made to capitalize on the film markets they were released into (Blaxploitation and Star Wars, respectively).

Tomorrow Never Dies has a number of scenes where the movie just straight-up becomes a 90's Asian martial arts flick.

# ? Jan 22, 2016 17:01

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# ? May 8, 2024 10:42

thrawn527: Mar 27, 2004; Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

gohuskies posted:

I wouldn't say at all that Thunderball has near universal praise. I think most people agree that the scuba battle is one of the most boring scenes in the entire franchise! Plus the rape of Nurse Fearing, which is Bond at his worst towards women, and general issues of bloat and bullshit, Thunderball is one of my least favorite Bond movies.

Oh, okay good. I know my father and grandfather talked it up my whole life, and I tend to see it on a lot of Best Bond lists, and those guys on James Bonding love it, including the scuba battle. When I watched it last year for the other thread, I was blown away by how boring it ended up being.

Like, I liked it's remake Never Say Never Again more. And that's not even all that good.

# ? Jan 22, 2016 17:07

Darko: Dec 23, 2004

Parts of Thunderball look and are directed really well, it has one of the better early scores, and, as the followup to the huge cultural sensation Goldfinger was, and amping everything up one level, it created a lot of good first impressions at the time, which will hold up in peoples' memories.

# ? Jan 22, 2016 17:19

Magnetic North: Dec 15, 2008; Beware the Forest's Mushrooms

Sense and Motion posted:

Now people are attributing the existence of sequels carrying over events and characters between them to Marvel? Just like there can't be ensemble movies without prior movies establishing every character beforehand, thank you, Marvel, for also giving birth to the action-comedy.

I only attribute it to Marvel because they are currently the top dog as far as movie success right now, and if you're going to ape someone, that is who you would choose (that or Hunger Games I guess). Sure, I don't know for a fact that this is their motivation for trying to make this a (for lack of a better term) 'legacy' movie. However, in order for me to believe that this is not a studio chasing what is popular right now, and instead was the plan all along to have this long-term reveal interwoven into the 3 previous movies, we have to believe that:

(Significant Spectre movie spoilers)
The filmmakers thought that the (at the time) 40-year dispute that prevented them from using SPECTRE and Blofeld would be resolved by the time they wanted to pay this off. They were so confident that this would happen that they replaced SPECTRE with QUANTUM in their second movie, rather than just waiting until it eventually happened. Also, they were so desperate to keep this secret, they didn't hint at it in the previous three movies, even with an obtuse credit cookie.

Sorry, I just don't buy it.

thrawn527 posted:

I think the word "remake" is a bit strong

Yeah, that may have been a little too glib.

# ? Jan 22, 2016 17:25

Name Change: Oct 9, 2005

We're getting Star Wars movies within the next few years that establish a larger "cinematic universe" than the nine episodes themselves. Then there's the collective DC properties, who are racing to put together a franchise to rival the Avengers. Tentpole action-comedy franchises with as many spinoffs as possible are where it's at these days.

Bond is not really at that level yet (attempts to do a Jinx spinoff not withstanding), generally because Bond movies make a point of being outrageously expensive to film (the extravagance intended as part of the appeal) and are wrapped up entirely in the mythos of one single character.

I guess we could get a spinoff of Moneypenny repeatedly not having sex with James Bond (or an unusually restrained implication thereof and no more). Everyone else you'd like to see another movie about tends to get written out in their introductory film.

As far as Skyfall being a Dark Knight ripoff, well, Dark Knight was enormously influential, and if you're going to argue that almost any action film these days is not taking at least some beats from TDK, you've got an uphill battle in front of you. That being said, Skyfall is very TDK in plot and feel, and even rolls in some additional influences from The Dark Knight Returns, making somewhat more of a Batman movie than even recent Batman movies.

# ? Jan 27, 2016 11:21

Dead Snoopy: Mar 23, 2005

I always thought that the marketing spin of a Jinx spin off was timely and only raised because it was Hale Berry and they had a new Bond film with a brand new character to talk about. I felt that if some actress with a lesser name had played the role it wouldn't even be a conversation. Hell, even Michael Madsen's rear end in a top hat CIA character wasn't invited back to future Bond outings.

# ? Feb 5, 2016 17:38

thrawn527: Mar 27, 2004; Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

Dead Snoopy posted:

I always thought that the marketing spin of a Jinx spin off was timely and only raised because it was Hale Berry and they had a new Bond film with a brand new character to talk about. I felt that if some actress with a lesser name had played the role it wouldn't even be a conversation. Hell, even Michael Madsen's rear end in a top hat CIA character wasn't invited back to future Bond outings.

To be fair, no one was invited back, because they rebooted the series after Die Another Day (the one with Madsen).

My impression was that they hired Halle Berry because they wanted to do a spinoff, not the other way around, and that Madsen would have been in the spinoff, too. But then Die Another Day was hot garbage, and they started over from scratch.

# ? Feb 5, 2016 20:16

Small Strange Bird: Sep 22, 2006; Merci, chaton!

Dead Snoopy posted:

Hell, even Michael Madsen's rear end in a top hat CIA character wasn't invited back to future Bond outings.

There were rumours that his assholery wasn't just in front of the camera, which may be another reason.

OneThousandMonkeys posted:

As far as Skyfall being a Dark Knight ripoff, well, Dark Knight was enormously influential, and if you're going to argue that almost any action film these days is not taking at least some beats from TDK, you've got an uphill battle in front of you.

Probably why I haven't enjoyed many action movies for a while, because I thought The Dark Knight was an overlong bore and TDKR even worse. :v:

# ? Feb 5, 2016 23:41

bobkatt013: Oct 8, 2006; Youâre telling me Peter Parker is ...... Spider-man!?

thrawn527 posted:

To be fair, no one was invited back, because they rebooted the series after Die Another Day (the one with Madsen).

Dame Judi Dench :colbert:

# ? Feb 5, 2016 23:43

blackguy32: Oct 1, 2005; Say, do you know how to do the walk?

I cant even describe what I found wrong with Spectre. I do think the final part at MI6 was unnecessary and I think the movie would have been better off with just letting Blofeld get away. But I felt the same way about Spectre that I did about Skyfall, and people loved Skyfall, so I don't know what I didn't like about it. Maybe something to do with Bond's past? Because it was a big part of Skyfall and I didn't find it interesting there and they shoehorned Blofeld into Bond's past and I thought it was a very weak link to the point where it shouldn't have even been there.

# ? Feb 6, 2016 01:48

thrawn527: Mar 27, 2004; Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

bobkatt013 posted:

Dame Judi Dench

...god dammit.

# ? Feb 9, 2016 15:46

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

Cnut the Great posted:

Bond is as dangerous sexually as he is professionally. That's who he is. He absolutely didn't rape anyone, but yeah, he was sexually aggressive in a way that was distinctly uncomfortable. That's because it's a movie, not real life, and so it's okay to push the boundaries of what's acceptable in order to evoke a specific psychological reaction. Sex scenes aren't supposed to be boring and comfortable, they're supposed to be provocative.

My impression was that he wasn't necessarily claiming he micro-engineered all that poo poo down to the smallest detail. He was basically just saying, "All these dudes were working for me, and I'm the one who set them after you to wreak havoc on your life."

Just like Silva in the last film, Blofeld is cast as a slightly out-of-phase double of Bond. It's why Madeleine gets double vision and starts seeing "two Jameses" after getting drunk at L'Americain. Then later when Bond is facing Blofeld in the basement of MI6 headquarters, there's a lingering shot where Blofeld's mirrored reflection in the glass almost perfectly visually overlaps with the real Bond. Now we're seeing double. It's a blatant callback to Madeleine's dialogue earlier.

Spectre is basically just a direct extension of the themes of Skyfall. It's trying to get a handle on what exactly James Bond represents, what makes him "good", what makes him in any way different than his enemies. Blofeld is the author of all Bond's pain because he in a way is Bond, and represents what Bond has devoted his life to. He's the villain lurking in the dark basement of MI6 headquarters, which is an obvious visual metaphor for the depths of Bond's subconscious. That's why as Bond goes deeper and deeper underground and approaches his dark reflection ever more closely, images of all those who have succumbed to death because of him flash by him on the walls, accusingly.

Bond starts off the movie dressed as death. Mr. White greets Bond by remarking that he'd always known "death would come with a familiar face"--he just didn't know until then that it would be Bond's. Bond is Death. The main difference between him and Blofeld is summed up by M: Bond has a license to kill, but that means he also has a license not to kill. C, unlike M, believes that the 00 agent's power over life and death should be put "where it belongs"--that is, in the hands of men like Blofeld.

Blofeld's Orwellian method of social control is meticulously planned and executed by an international committee. It's efficient, sterile, surgical--and ultimately heartless, faceless. Bond's method is anachronistically individualistic. It's hands-on, dirty, and at times viciously brutal--but there's at least a man behind it all, one who must hold himself accountable to his own conscience, and his own conscience alone. When he pulls the trigger, it's because he decided to pull the trigger. There's no committee. He can't pawn the responsibility off on someone else or allow the guilt to be diluted among the vast institutional framework of an amoral government apparatus. He has to bear the burden alone. That's what allows him to retain his basic humanity, despite all the human beings he's killed and lives he's destroyed for reasons that even he often finds unclear.

This is a really nice analysis.

# ? Feb 27, 2016 23:23

lizardman: Jun 30, 2007; by R. Guyovich

This is going to sound like such a stupid thing to bump this thread for, but I just saw this the other day and how I wish they had the foresight to do an "unrated edition" so we could get Ralph Fiennes uttering "oval office". I know it's more clever to leave it hanging but the unexpected audaciousness of it (and I just know Fiennes could sell that line with the best of them) would just be so hilarious I'm having to hold back laughter just imagining it.

# ? Mar 23, 2016 01:00

Armyman25: Sep 6, 2005

lizardman posted:

This is going to sound like such a stupid thing to bump this thread for, but I just saw this the other day and how I wish they had the foresight to do an "unrated edition" so we could get Ralph Fiennes uttering "oval office". I know it's more clever to leave it hanging but the unexpected audaciousness of it (and I just know Fiennes could sell that line with the best of them) would just be so hilarious I'm having to hold back laughter just imagining it.

I felt it was much better when it was implied.

# ? Mar 23, 2016 06:21

iajanus: Aug 17, 2004; NUMBER 1 QUEENSLAND SUPPORTER
MAROONS 2023 STATE OF ORIGIN CHAMPIONS FOR LIFE

Yeah, the joke would have been heavily weakened by actually saying the word. Much better the way they went.

# ? Mar 23, 2016 06:32

DStecks: Feb 6, 2012

Just watch In Bruges if you want to see Ralph Fiennes cursing while pointing guns at people.

# ? Mar 23, 2016 16:42

thrawn527: Mar 27, 2004; Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

DStecks posted:

Just watch In Bruges

This version of the sentence works, too. Everyone should watch In Bruges.

# ? Mar 23, 2016 18:20

LampkinsMateSteve: Jan 1, 2005; I've really fucked it. Have I fucked it?

iajanus posted:

Yeah, the joke would have been heavily weakened by actually saying the word. Much better the way they went.

Much weakened by using the word "careless".

# ? Mar 23, 2016 19:23

RaspberrySea: Nov 29, 2004

You loving retract that bit about my oval office loving kids, Bond.

# ? Mar 23, 2016 22:49

Violator: May 15, 2003

Have there been any rumblings about the next film yet?

# ? Mar 24, 2016 00:26

Cacator: Aug 6, 2005; You're quite good at turning me on.

Violator posted:

Have there been any rumblings about the next film yet?

Pretty much nothing except who might replace Craig, which isn't a given either.

# ? Mar 24, 2016 02:15

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE: Aug 1, 2004; whoa, what just happened here?; College Slice

Craig retires with a happy ending and Idris Elba takes the reins :getin:

It probably won't happen because racists.

# ? Mar 24, 2016 02:25

Name Change: Oct 9, 2005

I personally cannot wait for the wailing and gnashing of teeth caused by a movie series involving a black guy sexing up rich white women.

# ? Mar 24, 2016 03:41

Bobby Digital: Sep 4, 2009

broken clock opsec posted:

Craig retires with a happy ending and Idris Elba takes the reins

It probably won't happen because racists.

Comedy option: Daniel Radcliffe so Harry Potter works for Voldemort.

# ? Mar 24, 2016 06:47

DStecks: Feb 6, 2012

This is really more of a Skyfall question, but I only just thought of it now: is it weird that M's identity is basically public knowledge? Because DenchM's identity was something that Bond was Not Supposed To Know. Which raises the question of who the hell she was and where she came from that she managed to be made head of MI:6 without people in the organization having any idea who the hell she was or why she was qualified to lead the organization.

# ? Mar 24, 2016 14:28

Magnetic North: Dec 15, 2008; Beware the Forest's Mushrooms

DStecks posted:

This is really more of a Skyfall question, but I only just thought of it now: is it weird that M's identity is basically public knowledge? Because DenchM's identity was something that Bond was Not Supposed To Know. Which raises the question of who the hell she was and where she came from that she managed to be made head of MI:6 without people in the organization having any idea who the hell she was or why she was qualified to lead the organization.

It may not be technically in continuity, but in Goldeneye, she is referred to as a 'bean counter' and "Evil Queen of Numbers" so perhaps she came up from an administrative or political background rather than law enforcement or military?

# ? Mar 24, 2016 15:48

thrawn527: Mar 27, 2004; Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

broken clock opsec posted:

Craig retires with a happy ending and Idris Elba takes the reins

It probably won't happen because racists.

Or because he doesn't want to play Bond.

# ? Mar 24, 2016 15:55

computer parts: Nov 18, 2010; PLEASE CLAP

broken clock opsec posted:

Craig retires with a happy ending and Idris Elba takes the reins

It probably won't happen because racists.

Idris Elba doesn't want to because every single article will be something like "finally, a black Bond! Racism is over!"

# ? Mar 24, 2016 16:03

Detective No. 27: Jun 7, 2006

See you all in 15 years when John Boyega is frontrunner rumor for Bond.

# ? Mar 24, 2016 18:38

well why not: Feb 10, 2009

computer parts posted:

Idris Elba doesn't want to because every single article will be something like "finally, a black Bond! Racism is over!"

And every single comment on the articles will be filled with a word that starts with C ... and rhymes with gently caress. The meltdowns would be hilarious.

# ? Mar 25, 2016 01:41

Neo Rasa: Mar 8, 2007; Everyone should play DUKE games.

thrawn527 posted:

I think the word "remake" is a bit strong, but there were some pretty striking similarities when I watched it in theaters. The themes discussed above about whether the main character is still relevant (though, to be fair, Bond has done this before) for one, the fact that the villains plot in both is incredibly complicated, to the point of basically being impossible to properly line up (though...again, Bond is basically known for this), plus, after seeing The Dark Knight and The Avengers, seeing yet another movie where the villain is captured on purpose in order to break out and do "a thing" was starting to feel a bit old.

That being said, by the end it starts feeling more like Home Alone, so I'm good with it.

This also makes a lot of sense because Nolan is a huge Bond fan and the general arc that happened in his Batman trilogy began life as his pitch for a new set of Bond flicks before they ended up doing Casino Royale/etc.

# ? Mar 25, 2016 16:22

Chairman Capone: Dec 17, 2008

Craig has already nominated a replacement:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SX9twWRktYw

# ? Mar 25, 2016 20:03

Hobo Clown: Oct 16, 2012; Here it is, Baby.
Your killer track.

Chairman Capone posted:

Craig has already nominated a replacement:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SX9twWRktYw

When I saw the title "Boris as next James Bond?" I thought it meant he had nominated Alan Cumming.

An openly bisexual Bond would possibly explode more heads than a black one.

# ? Mar 25, 2016 20:23

Violator: May 15, 2003

Neo Rasa posted:

This also makes a lot of sense because Nolan is a huge Bond fan and the general arc that happened in his Batman trilogy began life as his pitch for a new set of Bond flicks before they ended up doing Casino Royale/etc.

drat, the broad strokes do fit.

# ? Mar 25, 2016 20:35

Taear: Nov 26, 2004; Ask me about the shitty opinions I have about Paradox games!

Bobby Digital posted:

Comedy option: Daniel Radcliffe so Harry Potter works for Voldemort.

It'd be really funny, it's a shame Daniel Radcliffe is like 130cm tall.

# ? Mar 25, 2016 21:03

Eb: May 6, 2003

Also worth noting the movie finally passed $200M domestic a couple of days ago because it's somehow still playing in theatres.

# ? Mar 25, 2016 22:11

DStecks: Feb 6, 2012

Hobo Clown posted:

When I saw the title "Boris as next James Bond?" I thought it meant he had nominated Alan Cumming.

An openly bisexual Bond would possibly explode more heads than a black one.

CraigBond was bisexual though. :colbert:

# ? Mar 26, 2016 00:34

Raxivace: Sep 9, 2014

DStecks posted:

CraigBond was bisexual though.

Yeah he straight up flirts with Javier Bardem.

# ? Mar 26, 2016 03:01

CBJSprague24: Dec 5, 2010; another game at nationwide arena. everybody keeps asking me if they can fuck the cannon. buddy, they don't even let me fuck it

After several months of life getting in the way, I finally saw this, and I have to admit that I feel...nothing. I wasn't entertained like I was with so many Bonds before, I wasn't offended after having sat through the tire fire that was Die Another Day. I just...meh. I liked that they tied the previous three movies together and that the events in them started to make more sense, but this'll go down like Casino Royale: I'm not going out of my way to watch it when it winds up on USA in a couple years. Quantum was OK and I enjoyed Skyfall the first time through (I don't remember why I didn't go see Casino in theaters), but this didn't strike me as that good.

I remembered hearing rumors of the return of SPECTRE when the reboot (I hate reboots) was announced and wondered where that had gone until seeing this. I was also a bit underwhelmed at Waltz, especially given how drat good he was in Inglorious Basterds and entertaining he was in Django.

Raxivace posted:

Yeah he straight up flirts with Javier Bardem.

I thought that was more to troll/taunt Silva, who seemed to potentially be gay/bisexual himself.

# ? Apr 2, 2016 04:15

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# ? May 8, 2024 10:42

DStecks: Feb 6, 2012

CBJSprague24 posted:

I thought that was more to troll/taunt Silva, who seemed to potentially be gay/bisexual himself.

Silva wasn't into dudes but wanted to psych out Bond, and Bond was like "joke's on you" which is why Silva immediately dropped it, and I will hear no other interpretations of that scene.

# ? Apr 2, 2016 04:26

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