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G0RF posted:A subthread stumbles close to achieving self-awareness... Shoot blues err'day
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Nov 6, 2015 04:08
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Mirificus posted:They also said, "With SC CIG is trying to build things up the RIGHT way from the beginning rather than trying to hack things over time." The first thing they done was to hack a game engine that wasn't designed to do what they wanted it to do. Pooned posted:What is a parp? Sorry I haven't read all 10k posts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_6CZ2JaEuc
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Nov 13, 2015 02:23
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AP posted:https://twitter.com/billy_lord/status/665619377123893248  Totally not closing down the studio 
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Nov 15, 2015 01:22
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AP posted:
Why do these ships look so small (as if they were scaled down models of huge ships)? They have all of this detailing which would serve a useful function on large ships (observational decks). But on a ship designed for a couple of people it looks like cruft. Are they 'designed' to fly in atmosphere, because sci-fi novels often describe ships of this size as space coffins attached to big engines. I suppose those bits hanging off at the end are supposed to be the engines, but it doesn't look very functional at all. my immersion
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Nov 17, 2015 02:35
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Chris Roberts Desktop Commander 2.0 Alpha Edition
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Nov 20, 2015 12:50
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Madcosby posted:I've said before that game development is like building a skyscraper. In Star Citizen's case, it is like building scale versions of the Ryugyong Hotel. First they start off with a three story model of the Ryugyong Hotel. Then they buy a new plot of land and rebuild it, adding a couple of stories over the previous model. This happens over and over again in the hopes of making a Ryugyong Hotel that is tallest building in the world. It is expected that the completed building will bring glory for Dear Leader and shame to the treacherous, imperialist dogs. But in reality they have built a series of structurally unsound death traps with shiny exteriors.
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Nov 21, 2015 03:41
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Why does it always look like the game is structurally held together with tape. I didn't know you could do that with video games. Like how does it compile and not do what it is programmed to do? Are they copy/pasting example code from the internet in places where it looks like it should go and hoping for the best?
Tokamak fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Nov 21, 2015 |
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Nov 21, 2015 13:22
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AP posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99CE7EeVAa0&t=20s That's some sweet space reverb on that gunfire.
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Nov 21, 2015 14:03
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Lord_NeckBeard posted:Thing is, turrets were never effective as a defense for individual planes. You had huge packs of ww2 bombers take out minimal german fighters as a group. One bomber had several gunners but few kills. It's also something that has never really been fun in video games, probs for the same reason. Very little in the game makes sense if you spend more than a couple of minutes thinking about it. The creator wanted to recreate the spaceship battle scenes from Star Wars. There is a targeting reticle, and things go pew pew pew. There really is no 'realism' beyond that. You could even go one step beyond and question why you are doing any shooting (or piloting) manually.
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Nov 22, 2015 13:46
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AP posted:I have seen this mentioned a few times, do you actually have any evidence to back that up? That's a hell of an accusation to level at someone. the poster has sworn a goon oath of honour.
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Nov 22, 2015 13:49
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tarkaroshe knows 
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Nov 24, 2015 02:51
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Deki posted:I've seen stuff like "Goons have come around and like SC again because the PU is so goddamn amazing" in like 3 different places at this point. I saw a few posts that were a little upbeat about 2.0 turning things around. But they were from BonziBuddy posters who reg'd in the last couple of months 
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Nov 27, 2015 04:30
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Cao Ni Ma posted:Ive heard a lot of delusional people say 2.0 is fun but they cant seem to pinpoint whats fun about it. I would like to see a genuine write up of the gameplay experience, what there is to do right now, if its better than whats offered in other games of the genre. That sort of thing. Fun just means it is a game, and that you can do game things. As opposed to non game things, such as word processing and Photoshop. Just remember that this is the first version of the game with more than rudimentary gameplay mechanics (walking, flying, shooting).
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Nov 27, 2015 13:15
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Gryphon0468 posted:Can you all see yet he can't even keep his own bullshit straight? T.G. Xarbala posted:I hope you realize that a lot of us were making fun of SC years before Derek Smart posted his first blog and would have continued to do so if he didn't decide to play the gadfly. We don't really care about his credibility since he's not the one selling $15k ship packages in a supposedly non-p2w space game. So long ago that when there were still true believers posting in the games thread, the mock thread was shared with people posting about an Alabama hot dog salesman.
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Nov 27, 2015 13:27
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CrazyLoon posted:...and she wears it outside of said audition because...? I'm no fake tattoo expert, but I'd imagine it is like Henna. The ink is painted on, it stains the skin, and it takes days/weeks for it to fade away.
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Nov 28, 2015 16:15
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Game's out, best in the history of everything. Even Famitsu gave it a 100/100. The editor has since died and, in a statement, told others that he would never be able to experience such exquisite beauty in a video game ever again. A brilliant example of Sandi's competence. Only the greatest gaijin marketing VP's know that you are supposed to pay off Famitsu for high scores.
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Nov 29, 2015 10:12
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Berious posted:I think they'd pull a doublefine soon as the funding clearly dries up. Can't see Chris blowing his last ever big payday on fulfilling the Wulge's space dreams. They have already pulled a Double Fine. The game has been split into two parts with the hopes of getting the first part out 'early' to generate sales in order to pay for the second part.
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Nov 29, 2015 15:04
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G0RF posted:Well she was! Who is that segment even for? It would make sense to do a beginners tutorial around the game's release since that is when you are actually going to have new players. But this is a segment inside an ultra nerd web show where everyone knows how to move a joystick. He spent way more time talking about how 'realistic' the thrusters on the ship are than actually explaining how to use the joystick. Don't tell me this is that "explain to women in sperg detail how to do something" fetish that some goon mentioned a while ago 
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Nov 30, 2015 04:46
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 Cover up them rocks
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Nov 30, 2015 06:32
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Every year. Star Citizen's greatness transcends years.
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Nov 30, 2015 11:34
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LCL-Dead posted:79 pages later you guys are still going on about Karl. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uZPSGYq4ic
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Nov 30, 2015 14:05
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duckfarts posted:has it been 2 weeks yet in 2 weeks
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Dec 1, 2015 07:53
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Iglocska posted:If that is indeed true that they've diverged that much then they'll definitely need a studio full of crytek engineers to pull it off. DX11 suddenly sounds very appealing... Those Crytek engineers did a whole load of good integrating star marine into the game, oh wait.
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Dec 1, 2015 13:54
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So Octopode is a graphics programming expert too? We must treat his opinion as fact because he is objectively the smartest person in the universe. Time to pack it in goon failures and embrace the warmth of BDSSE.
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Dec 1, 2015 16:57
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AP posted:Sorry to return to this but when you say "this proves it without a doubt", are you referring to the below? In short yes. 32 bit SIMD is basically your GPU, and that silicon is hard wired to (mostly) handle 32 bit data. There is a capability for it to do 64 bit calculations, but there is a massive performance hit. So SC was always going to largely be 32 bit, it just is a question of where and how. People speculated that the position of all the ships would be in 64 bit, whether nearby or far away. But what you have linked to suggests that everything local (the poo poo that matters) is all done in 32 bit. Taking the first developer quote: ZonePartitionSpace (32 bit) is the local zone/grid/partition where the game is doing all the hard work. Much in the same way that Fallout only fully simulates people nearby and not on the other side of the world. It's the smallest partiition of space where everything important is calculated. You use it to calculate the physics of all the objects, who is shooting who, track objects etc. All the stuff that is important to the action. ZoneSpace (64 bit) is for all the stuff that is further away, and stuff are not physically interacting with (but you can theoretically fly to). This is your mates ship who might be nearby but isn't part of the action, or on the other side of the star system (they show up as a dot on your HUD). You can consider this the part that has been hacked into the game. It is an intermediate step for what would otherwise be a fairly normal game engine. Calculate stuff nearby -> (Reconcile with stuff far away) -> Render screen. CameraSpace (32 bit) is using all the data from ZonePartitionSpace (32 bit). Now that all the extended info has been updated, the engine needs to do all the final work before getting the final image. This is the renderer part referenced in other engines. Send a ray out from your camera's viewpoint, get all objects it sees, and send if off to the GPU so it can flatten it and tidy it up into a nice 2D picture for your monitor (ScreenSpace transformation). It would be interesting to get an idea of the effective range of weapons, as this would also put a bound on the how large each partition needs to be. Maybe it has been answered elsewhere, but the only thing that remains is how large are the zone partitions? They could be smaller then what people think. The relatively low speed cap, coupled with the distances between major objects. This suggests that you aren't going to be firing on fleets hundred/s of kilometres away or sieging stations from even further away. It also makes it impractical to fly from one major object to the next, forcing you to warp between them, cutting down on the number of partitions a pilot would realistically be flying in (which would otherwise need to enumerated on in the ZoneSpace calculations). Tokamak fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Dec 3, 2015 |
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Dec 3, 2015 03:04
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Octopode posted:Basically yes, but there aren't separate 32-bit maps. The maps are the overall 64-bit space; the local area you receive information and updates from the server about is a chunk of the larger map that is taken and converted down into a 32-bit space based around your current position; this chunk may also contain yet smaller chunks (in the form of ship or space station interiors). The overall system stores each object's position relative only to its parent chunk, until you eventually get back to the largest 32-bit subdivisions, which tie their positions back to the 64-bit world space coordinate system. How do you accurately perform 32-bit calculations between two loosely connected 32-bit spaces and render it? The 64-bit stuff is a nice programming trick to get some extra information about far away objects and to facilitate phasing between neighbouring 32-bit partitions. This will not impact the moment to moment gameplay in any meaningful way. There's a reason why combat is close quarters with a dozen people, and not fleet battles with multiple squads/platoons. I'm sorry that you won't be able to use a telescope to view someone else's spaceship being boarded tens of kilometres away. I'm sorry that a ship in the distance will not explode with kinematics being accurately calculated for each part. I'm sorry that you are not going to be able to fire a torpedo at a space station thousands of kilometres away and have it it hit. I'm sorry that your spaceship has a top speed of under 2 km/s. I'm sorry that you are playing with aeroplanes in space, and not with hard sci-fi spaceships. The dream of the Best drat Space Sim Ever is full of glaring holes and it will ruin your immersion.
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Dec 3, 2015 04:30
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Octopode posted:I'm glad you've finally come around and admitted they actually have implemented 64-bit coordinate space. Yes, and you can fire a gun in 2.0. Therefore Star Marine. Q.E.D.
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Dec 3, 2015 05:06
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Loiosh posted:So, global positional space, all ships and players that are not inside of other objects, are 64-bit precision. All local spaces, which are the interiors of ships and stations, are 32-bit precision. Space around stations and ships, is 64-bit precision, according to that video. This is a fundamental misunderstanding of how graphics rendering works. Objects (spaceships) are made up polygons, where each corner (vertex) is a set of points (co-ordinates). To determine the value of each point in a 3D space, you need a point of reference. The point of reference in a video game is the player camera. That means the distance between the camera and polygonal model has to be a 32-bit number, to ensure that the corners of polygons remain 32-bit values, and that calculations performed on those polygons are 32-bit.  So if you see a ship at a 64-bit distance, then it is made up of 64-bit points and any calculation needs to be done as 64-bits, and you will kill your graphics performance. Beer4TheBeerGod posted:EDIT: Or is the idea that there is a 32 bit bubble around the player and anything outside that bubble is positioned with 64 bit so that it stays still? There will not be anything 3D being rendered outside that bubble. For example: you can use the 64-bit co-ordinate of a ship outside the bubble to determine the direction of the ship relative to you and place the HUD marker correctly, but you won't see the ship (hopefully because it is too far away and shouldn't be rendered anyway). Tokamak fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Dec 3, 2015 |
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Dec 3, 2015 05:55
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Loiosh posted:I believe they specifically addressed that point awhile back during one of their presentations. The renderer is handed translated 32-bit positions local to the camera position. I'm sure others know more about this, though. So for all practical purposes its 32-bit.
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Dec 3, 2015 06:05
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Octopode posted:You can, actually, render further objects--but they have to be brought into the 32-bit space first. The crudest method is to simply scale them down to give a false perspective and move them closer to the camera. I don't think CIG will actually do this, because they're desperate to reduce their number of draw calls already and will be culling at every opportunity, but it's not like it isn't an option if they really wanted to do it. You're right that they wouldn't do this, and just do things that are more economical for performance. For example sticking to 32-bit for 99.999% of calculations. Even switching between 32-bit and 64-bit representations is dumb, when you can keep everything internally at 32-bit and surface 64-bit representations for the fringe cases that need them. Tokamak fucked around with this message at 06:19 on Dec 3, 2015 |
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Dec 3, 2015 06:17
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Truga posted:There are quite a few games with double precision positioning around. You are right that there are uses for it, but that is not how it has been sold to the citizens. The idea is that its all 64-bit and not hacked together for a handful of use cases. It can't be a ground breaking innovation if other people are doing it. For an openly transparent game, they don't like to go into a lot of detail and leave a lot of it up to the citizen's imagination. Truga posted:Why double precision matters is speed. Unlike graphics, physics have to be smooth so you don't fly next to a station and suddenly explode because you moved into it due to a floating point error. That would be a good argument in SC's favour if the ships didn't randomly clip through stuff, explode, and the player falls through the world.
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Dec 3, 2015 06:58
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neonbregna posted:Wait so you can have goons in shitboxes for ramming descend upon pubbies in slow combat mode. This game sounds pretty good Yes, from everything that has been shown, crashing into stuff is the biggest threat to your ship's integrity. Since dogfighting is your only method of combat, ramming is unavoidable. This is the ultimate goon griefing game. I can't wait for a whale to undock in their connie while 4 goons are waiting to ram it over and over again. Tokamak fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Dec 4, 2015 |
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Dec 4, 2015 02:07
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The lawsuit is coming in a couple of weeks, settle down.
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Dec 4, 2015 15:01
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MeLKoR posted:Maybe but the question is will it be a 64bit or a 2*32bit lawsuit? 7-bit ASCII
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Dec 4, 2015 15:46
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Wrecked Angle posted:Okay, so I spoke to my mate and he said 'Just get a starter pack', but even that's £35 and then apparently you still don't access to the game yet? Even if you plonk down hundreds of £££'s (of loving thousands!) you can't even play the drat game without an invite. It's a cult where spaceships are substituted for scientology training courses. He is even doing the whole "first course is cheap"! Tokamak fucked around with this message at 14:50 on Dec 5, 2015 |
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Dec 5, 2015 14:47
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Chin posted:Multiplayer aside is it really technologically more difficult to have a player fly a space ship and then get out and paaarp around in zero G than it is to have a player drive a car and then get out and run around a city? You know like GTA3 did in 2001? EVA seems to be the big thing when it comes to people claiming that SC is some impressive leap forward in game design but I don't understand why that is. It really depends on the game engine, and what you are setting out to accomplish. IIRC cryengine (like most FPS engines) operate by having a terrain map with a bunch of 'simple' objects sitting on top of it. While the rocks, floors, etc. have collision detection on them, your character is actually moving relative to the underlying terrain. So while you might be standing on top of a building, the map's gravity is trying to pull you back to the terrain. The only thing stopping you from being pulled through the building is an invisible barrier. You can see this sort of thing happen in a lot of Star Citizen videos. Generally in games, vehicles are objects that sit on top of the terrain. They aren't too different from an exploding barrel, in that you can pick up, and push over. There is no terrain inside a barrel or a car. Vehicles just have more elaborate sets of animations (your character getting in and out, affixing the player model inside the car model), and special behaviours (camera repositioned, player movement replaced with car movement). This is how Arena Commander works - your vehicle is an object (far off the ground) moving relative to an invisible terrain map with zero gravity. It is the reason why they could release it a couple of months after the hanger release. It is just a regular map with a couple of unusual modifications, and starts you inside a vehicle with spaceship style handling. The spaceships work in a similar way to how the buggies work on planet-side. In Star Citizen 2.0 there is a terrain map inside the vehicle. There are also terrain maps inside other vehicles, and on stations (and presumably on planets). The problem is that in Cryengine, there is only one terrain map, and the co-ordinate system is relative to terrain map. How do you have your terrain map and your opponents terrain maps move discontinuously from one another? The game engine just does not recognise and understand the problem, it fundamentally is not programmed to. You can imagine the millions of problems this creates, why they spent so long hacking a solution, and why Derek says that you need to build a custom engine for these sort of games. In GTA a vehicle is an object in the game world. In Star Citizen a vehicle is a game world, in a shared space full of game worlds, and all of these game worlds move, have physics, and behaviours that are independent from one another. There are worlds inside objects inside an even bigger world Tokamak fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Dec 6, 2015 |
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Dec 6, 2015 04:12
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Chin posted:Interesting, thanks. So for the single seat ships it isn't much different. Just an object in the game world. It depends on how the game engine is designed. In the game you mentioned it appears that you are essentially on moving platforms and the ground is hidden below the ships. Or you could be on the ground and everything else is just floating in space (who can really say). It looks like the ship flight is scripted (pre-determined) too, which gives you a clue to how it is designed. In Icarus, the gravity is pointing down in the same direction for everyone regardless of ship. It seems like it is programmed on a conventional game engine. Roll and pitch are just different ways to translate an object is a 3-D space. If you can steer a car left and right, there is nothing stopping you from having a ship steer left-right/up-down/roll left-right etc. It is still fundamentally moving in relation to the ground. In star citizen you can stand upside down and have everything inside behave the same way, while watching someone orientated differently with all their objects obeying local physics. If you notice, on gameplay videos there is a 'press e to board' prompt and an animation plays. You can think of it as the game loading you on to a different map, and hiding it behind an animation. You also have to keep in mind that one set of physics and one map is a game engine design choice. You can always program it differently, except for most games it is extra work for no reason. Which is why CIG employs a whole studio just to make these sort of changes. A Neurotic Jew posted:thanks, these breakdowns are pretty helpful for me. In some ways it helps me recognize how impressive Alpha 2.0 is, in the sense that the engineers managed to make something that even resembles a rudimentary work-around to what seems like an impossible problem. It's less of a workaround, and more like replacing entire parts of the game engine wholesale. If that is easier then rewriting the whole thing from scratch, who knows. There is a lot of overhead trying to fit your new code into someone else's old code, manage assumptions that may not hold for your new code, and have the new code play nice with the old code. The upside is that you don't have to re-code the stuff you aren't planning to change. Tokamak fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Dec 6, 2015 |
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Dec 6, 2015 05:23
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kordansk posted:What games actually took 10 years of active development to make (besides stupid poo poo like DNF). True believers like to post a chart which makes out that most big games take 6-7 years at a minimum to make. Going by the rigorous standard set by the chart, Star Citizen will have its 13th anniversary in march.
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Dec 9, 2015 13:15
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New Patch, New Crashes:  Multiple people in the reddit thread are getting this
Tokamak fucked around with this message at 13:58 on Dec 9, 2015 |
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Dec 9, 2015 13:54
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2.0 needs to go live in two weeks if the staff are to have any hope of a christmas holiday.
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Dec 9, 2015 14:53
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