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Melian Dialogue fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Feb 2, 2016 |
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Oct 27, 2015 22:15
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Melian Dialogue posted:Look infernal machines, I know you're trying to make your point here, but I'll stop the rehash if you will too. Its really irrelevant and this is sort of my point about this whole debacle is that its easy to start painting people into whatever category that is easily brushed aside. So, if you wanna argue with me about C-51 or whatever lets argue about C-51 instead of "what makes me a fascist"? Fair enough. My point wasn't to paint you as a fascist, it was to point out that if the people who support C-51 (and the security apparatus themselves) are so willing to define violence as they deem necessary then having the government's assurance that the tools will only be used against "violent" threats is not particularly convincing. Since this is your area of expertise, can you name any specific parts of C-51 that would have allowed the security apparatus to better respond to or prevent attacks on Canadians in the context of any terrorist incidents in Canada the past decade? If so, how? This isn't a gotcha, I simply don't know of any and that is likely colouring my perception of the legislation. infernal machines fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Oct 27, 2015 |
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Oct 27, 2015 22:21
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Notable Alberta Budget info: Biggest deficit in about twenty years Raises taxes on booze and cigarettes (cheers, PT6A) Borrowing not just for infrastructure, but also operations I'm just getting started on reading this thing. Fun times await us all here in Alberta.
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Oct 27, 2015 22:26
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How much of that is Notley's doing and how much is left over from ridiculous mistakes made by Prentice and the good people of Alberta?
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Oct 27, 2015 22:33
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vyelkin posted:"We failed to better communicate the nature of second class citizenship." I was right, the CPC is taking the GOP playbook in saying they lost because they failed to communicate their terrible ideas right, and not because the voting population rejects their ideas.
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Oct 27, 2015 22:34
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It's all Notley's doing, regardless if she had anything to do with it. That's the game.
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Oct 27, 2015 22:35
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1.8% deficit and a checklist of all the NDP election promises stapled to the back page. It isn't too bad, to be honest. A PC asked why some Boards & Committees don't have Aboriginal representation after 6 months of NDP government and Notley said "it won't take 44 yrs." and everybody stood up and clapped vainman fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Oct 27, 2015 |
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Oct 27, 2015 22:38
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Melian Dialogue fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Feb 2, 2016 |
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Oct 27, 2015 22:44
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twistedmentat posted:I was right, the CPC is taking the GOP playbook in saying they lost because they failed to communicate their terrible ideas right, and not because the voting population rejects their ideas. Good.
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Oct 27, 2015 23:04
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Ezra Levant is really angry that Trudeau is spending frivolously when there are natives to helpquote:
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Oct 27, 2015 23:13
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P.d0t posted:I'm probably just having nostalgia from the pre-Notley era, and I don't know enough about other provinces' situations to talk about those. Manitoba is a two party province, the NDP and the PC. The liberals have one seat, former leader Jon Gerrard. Uniting the left is not a concern at all in manitoba seeing as the NDP have been in power since 1999. Right now would be a great time for the liberals to re-emerge seeing as the NDP are losing popularly, people still distrust the PCs, and the federal liberals are so popular. But I still haven't heard much from them and the provincial election is less than a year away. I doubt the NDP keeps power in manitoba and then who knows what happens with provincial politics.
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Oct 27, 2015 23:14
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Not even the wingnutties of loonies on my facebook feed are repeating that drivel about 24 Sussex.
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Oct 27, 2015 23:15
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Sedge and Bee posted:Ezra Levant is really angry that Trudeau is spending frivolously when there are natives to help  Called it.
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Oct 27, 2015 23:34
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HappyHippo posted:But I thought Chris Alexander was a smart dude who only sounded like a stupid brat because he had to toe the party line??? He was but apparently he's drank too much of the koolaid or he's trying to maneuver himself into leadership. Either way lol Melian Dialogue posted:Violence however, from a public safety standpoint ought to be fairly clear with regards to the mandate of our security apparatuses. The philosophy at the end of the day is to "keep the peace", so it makes sense that security apparatuses tend to view these situations agnostically in terms of violence or disruption. Security apparatuses by their own inherent definitions seek to keep calm and peace, regardless if its morally/ethically right or wrong. If it also serves the best interests of their political bosses, then unfortunately thats what we get for having a government system where departments must follow Ministerial direction, regardless of interpretation. Part of the problem is that this bill exists within the broader historical context of the Canadian national security state, with its pretty dubious track record. At its best, it has occasionally kept the peace, although in a pretty ineffective and often incompetent way. That doesn't include all groups that have been targeted out of sheer paranoia or enacting a political agenda. Even attempting to avoid presentism, and judge threats within the context of contemporary fears and perceived threats, CSIS and the RCMP have often overstepped any reasonable boundaries. The surveillance they've conducted on tens of thousands of Canadians who had no interest in disturbing the peace at all. The sharing of that information has had sometimes disastrous consequences, and I'm not convinced neither CSIS, nor the RCMP (who really need to finally be cut out of domestic surveillance entirely) have really learned how to handle this sensitive data. Dreylad fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Oct 27, 2015 |
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Oct 27, 2015 23:47
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Duck Rodgers posted:Manitoba is a two party province, the NDP and the PC. The liberals have one seat, former leader Jon Gerrard. Uniting the left is not a concern at all in manitoba seeing as the NDP have been in power since 1999. Bokhari has been making noise about privatizing the MBLL if elected (  ) which unfortunately has a lot of traction with the morons in this province. The Liberals and NDP are polling at similar numbers right now and I really hope that the soft Liberal vote goes back to the NDP come election time, even though the PC's are going to win regardless.
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Oct 27, 2015 23:54
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It's insane to me that people are getting their hackles up about 24 Sussex, even if it's only just the pundits. If the White House fell into disrepair it would be regarded as a source of national embarrassment.
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Oct 27, 2015 23:54
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Swagger, I cannot see anything in the document you posted that is convincing. On the other hand, I have been reading widely respected expert Michael Geist, who is very concerned about the lack of actual oversight (not a toothless review or a secret tribunal reporting to the prime minister) over information sharing with broad definitions. Not to mention the liberals have intimated they will be expanding the bulk collection, rather than collapsing it. This is hardly surprising - they started the spying apparatus expansion over a decade ago. Then, like now, they ignored advice that supplementary legislation like CSIS act or the privacy act need to be revamped for the new reality. The liberals have not said anything regarding that. We now know a lot about how state spying trends to get completely out of control from the NSA leaks, so what keeps driving you to claim it'll be okay this time? http://www.michaelgeist.ca/2015/03/a-conversation-about-bill-c-51-how-the-anti-terrorism-bill-undermines-canadian-privacy/
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Oct 27, 2015 23:56
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Sedge and Bee posted:Ezra Levant is really angry that Trudeau is spending frivolously when there are natives to help Holy crap, that comment section.
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Oct 27, 2015 23:57
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Melian Dialogue posted:I wouldn't consider myself an expert, but I'll provide some of the sources I've used to come to my own beliefs on the bill (rather than CPC talking points, or conversely, Rabble.ca blog posts). When the bill was undergoing review in the Senate, I contacted the Library of Parliament and got their official Legislative Summary which wasn't posted on the website for some reason. I dunno if it is posted now, but I figured I'd upload it for others to read through to serve as another look at the bill. Legislative Summaries are research that is conducted by the Parliamentary Information and Research Service, so its a pretty decent government source that, while of course not completely unbiased, serves better than talking points by a Conservative MP on the subject. Thanks for that. I realize that by virtue of this being a (draft) summary some of the language is vague, but it's easy to pick out some parts that are problematic unless you have unwavering faith in the fairness and justice of Canadian security agencies. Many of the provisions remove the requirement for specific judicial oversight and leave the definition/application of terms to the discretion of the security agencies themselves. For example: C-51 Legislative Summary posted:New section 83.221of the Code requires a mens rea of knowledge or of recklessness and makes every person liable to imprisonment for a term of not more than five years who, C-51 Legislative Summary posted:Bill C-51 provides for obtaining warrants for the seizure and forfeiture of publications (new section 83.222 of the Code) that are “terrorist propaganda” and for ordering the deletion of all electronic materials that are terrorist propaganda from a computer system (new section 83.223 of the Code). However, this order is limited to computer systems within the court’s jurisdiction. This is a huge  tooC-51 Legislative Summary posted:Clause 17 of the bill lowers the burden of proof required to obtain a recognizance with conditions (new section 83.3(2) of the Code)and to arrest a person without a warrant if the person is likely to commit a terrorist activity (new section 83.3(4) of the Code). I'd post more of them but whatever they used to format that PDF makes it a royal pain to copy and paste from, the formatting is just mangled to hell. There's a lot of interesting material in there, but as I've said the issue seems to come down to trusting in the judgement of the security agencies as the provisions allow them to operate at their own discretion without specific judicial oversight. Which is fine if you trust CSIS, CIS, and the RCMP to always operate in a just manner without the risk of repercussions should they fail to do so, but suffice it to say that I don't. infernal machines fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Oct 28, 2015 |
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Oct 27, 2015 23:58
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nice of notley to rack up 16 billion in debt for my province and then claim it will balanced after their term is over hmmm yes though i am loling over the tabacco increase
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Oct 27, 2015 23:58
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Brannock posted:It's insane to me that people are getting their hackles up about 24 Sussex, even if it's only just the pundits. If the White House fell into disrepair it would be regarded as a source of national embarrassment. It has, on several occasions. People got mad at Truman for spending money to fix the place, and at the time the second floor in the living quarters was about to collapse. Dreylad fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Oct 28, 2015 |
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Oct 27, 2015 23:59
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HappyHippo posted:But I thought Chris Alexander was a smart dude who only sounded like a stupid brat because he had to toe the party line??? I think he was the only person in DFAIT dumb enough to want to be ambassador to Afghanistan.
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Oct 28, 2015 00:00
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Baudin posted:Notable Alberta Budget info: A UofA economist has some charts to go with this, for those who like that sort of thing. https://storify.com/polisisti/university-of-alberta-econ-prof-goes-nuts-with-exc There's some nice call outs to go with the increases taxes - 2 years freezing tuition, and a move towards 25$/day day care among others. I'm still reading it as well, so there's likely some other downsides to go with it.
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Oct 28, 2015 00:01
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Brannock posted:It's insane to me that people are getting their hackles up about 24 Sussex, even if it's only just the pundits. If the White House fell into disrepair it would be regarded as a source of national embarrassment. Well to be fair I think Canadians generally don't have the same level of patriotic association between 24 Sussex and the nation itself as the Americans do with the Whitehouse. Also, you'll notice the pundits are mostly going with "It's not even that bad, surely, it's still nicer than your house" as a way to frame the issue.
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Oct 28, 2015 00:01
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Whiskey Sours posted:I think he was the only person in DFAIT dumb enough to want to be ambassador to Afghanistan. David Sproule was a bright guy who played the part of ambassador well, and Richard Colvin lept into the Charge position with both feet and wasn't at all afraid to go outside the wire to the places that needed seeing so he could say the things that needed saying. Come to think of it, most of the head of mission staff there after Alexander's tenure were pretty switched on. Sproule's AA got more done by ten in the morning than a lot of the public service does in a whole week.
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Oct 28, 2015 00:05
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The Prime Minister should live in a log cabin in the woods like a true Canadian.
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Oct 28, 2015 00:07
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Only if they have to build the cabin themselves. I would love to see the result for each of our prime ministers.
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Oct 28, 2015 00:10
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Let's rename YYZ after Harper. After all it's not like Pearson did anything notable. edit: Oh wait I misread, it's YYC. OK I don't care anymore.
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Oct 28, 2015 00:11
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McGavin posted:The Prime Minister should live in a million dollar condo that will finish building five years from now like a true Canadian.
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Oct 28, 2015 00:11
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We should bring back seditious libel as a charge and let any disagreements with verdicts in such libel cases be settled with duels imo.
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Oct 28, 2015 00:11
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McGavin posted:The Prime Minister should live in a log cabin in the woods like a true Canadian. 500 sqft condo, wood frame.
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Oct 28, 2015 00:12
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jfood posted:The Prime Minister should live in a million dollar 500 sqft condo, wood frame condo that will finish building five years from now like a true Canadian. The real question is does he live in a van or a tent in the park while it's under construction?
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Oct 28, 2015 00:21
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Baudin posted:Notable Alberta Budget info: Another $5/carton, another 13% on cigars, and 5% across the board on alcohol. Dirty loving cunts, the lot of them.
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Oct 28, 2015 00:21
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I'm upset about the regressiveness of these taxes, it should just be a one hundred percent tax on PT6A.
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Oct 28, 2015 00:33
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The Dark One posted:We should bring back seditious libel as a charge and let any disagreements with verdicts in such libel cases be settled with duels imo. Howe also hated Sir John A's guts, and wanted Nova Scotia to stay out of confederation. A true underrated Canadian Hero.
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Oct 28, 2015 00:33
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Martytoof posted:Let's rename YYZ after Harper. After all it's not like Pearson did anything notable. Wait just a second... Steven Harper International Terminal? Brb. Gotta sign a petition 
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Oct 28, 2015 00:56
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Kafka Esq. posted:I'm upset about the regressiveness of these taxes, it should just be a one hundred percent tax on PT6A. It's not a regressive tax disproportionately targeting the poor if they're doing something morally wrong.
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Oct 28, 2015 01:03
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Even the rebel media commenters are seeing through Ezra's bullshit (emphasis mine):quote:I did vote conservative and not for Trudeau, but (just for accurate information) if you google this you’ll find that this 10M in repairs has nothing to do with Trudeau wanting his house renovated. When Harper first became PM in 2006, the National Capital Commission (which is responsible for this house, the Opposition Leaders house and the GG’s house) reported that 24 Sussex needed 10M in renovations. There are plenty of news articles to be found that tell the story: the 10M was for repairs to heating, plumbing, central air, windows, and other things deemed by the inspection to be in poor to critical condition, as well as the entire house needed asbestos removed. This was in 2006. Harper refused to wait for repairs to be completed and moved in anyway. In 2008, the same findings were brought forward again and the NCC strongly suggested the Harpers move out for 10 months for repairs to be completed. At that time Harper refused to vacate the house and stated he would not move out till he was no longer PM. I don’t think anything has been said about it since 2008. Fast forward to now…. the National Capital Commission has pulled out their 2008 report and told the Trudeaus they cannot move in until these repairs are completed. The price tag was 10M back in 2006…. Trudeau has nothing to do with it. I will say though, it’s a shrewd move on Harper’s part making sure this expenditure will be remembered for years to come as Liberal waste!
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Oct 28, 2015 01:07
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Jordan7hm posted:It's not a regressive tax disproportionately targeting the poor if they're doing something morally wrong. Neither smoking nor drinking, nor illegal drug use in fact, is morally wrong. They are all amoral.
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Oct 28, 2015 01:15
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PT6A posted:Neither smoking nor drinking, nor illegal drug use in fact, is morally wrong. They are all amoral. I think I get what you're saying. You want legal weed and are willing to pay more than tobacco taxes for that privledge.
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Oct 28, 2015 01:22
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