Rap Record Hoarder posted:Why do you presume that because I don't like HRC (for substantive reasons) that I MUST be a Sanders devotee? Because they anticipated posts like this one.
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Oct 31, 2015 21:43
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PT6A posted:Don't be stupid, the Green party is completely nuts in Canada, that's why they only won a single seat. The leader of the party supports investigations into the health effects of Wi-Fi and an investigation into chemtrails, and once wrote a whiny letter to the Queen to ask her to intervene in Canadian parliament. Is the general public (not just #canpol) aware of all of this though? And yes, even though they did have quite a few loony policies (you didn't even bring up the anti-nuclear policies) they still had the most progressive platform. I think a better example I could've used to prove my point from Canada might be the fates of Megan Leslie/Stoffer/etc., the leftist members of parliament from my area of my country, Nova Scotia. They were inspiring, personable candidates with strong links to their communities and with massive margins of victory in previous elections, but a good chunk of voters came out to vote for Trudeau and the centrist Liberals or switched sides once it became clear that he/they were going to be the best chance at defeating Harper. Trudeau is a good candidate, sure, but even the most bland and questionable candidates could win. Halifax, a city that makes Atlanta look like a paragon of sustainability and intelligent design, elected a longtime senior urban planner to federal parliament with an overwhelming majority. In some alternate universe where the Greens gained a significant lead in polls and looked like the only choice to defeat Harper and avoid a minority government (and another election), people would have voted for them, woo, pseudoscience, and all.
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Oct 31, 2015 21:48
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Rap Record Hoarder posted:Why do you presume that because I don't like HRC (for substantive reasons) that I MUST be a Sanders devotee? Because you're also completely insufferable.
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Oct 31, 2015 21:48
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Being fair he's right, every time I ask around no-one I talk to says they intend to vote for Hillary Clinton.
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Oct 31, 2015 21:50
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people said the same thing about Obama in 2012, and i can't imagine the right will be more fired up to get not-Hillary than they were to get not-Obama
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Oct 31, 2015 21:52
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Tesseraction posted:Being fair he's right, every time I ask around no-one I talk to says they intend to vote for Hillary Clinton. Sure, but the important thing is to not assume that anecdotal data is somehow more true than what actual proper polling says.
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Oct 31, 2015 21:53
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7c Nickel posted:Sure, but the important thing is to not assume that anecdotal data is somehow more true than what actual proper polling says. Tesseraction is British.
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Oct 31, 2015 21:54
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e;f,b
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Oct 31, 2015 21:54
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Rap Record Hoarder posted:I'm a 30 year old, college educated black dude from a working class family. My social circle is mostly minority, evenly split between men and women, mostly working class, and varying levels of education. The people I know who like HRC tend to be older folks who voted for and lived through the first Clinton presidency, or middle class white people. Everyone else is either apathetic to her or mostly dislikes her. Older folks and middle class white people? Holy poo poo this woman is doomed.
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Oct 31, 2015 21:57
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7c Nickel posted:Sure, but the important thing is to not assume that anecdotal data is somehow more true than what actual proper polling says. Polls are collections of anecdotes, therefore any survey I take of my friends is a sampling of the population. QED.
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Oct 31, 2015 21:58
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SedanChair posted:Older folks and middle class white people? Holy poo poo this woman is doomed. If only young people didn't have such high turnout she might stand a chance!!!!
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Oct 31, 2015 22:07
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Call Me Charlie posted:why would I put my account on the line for nothing? Have a source for this? Because the entire Democratic Party establishment is behind her, last I checked, while Bernie only has the people, and nowhere near enough of them, at that. She's going to curb stomp the GOP into a collection of state organizations for the next eight years (it won't even be close), and is the only one in her party to call the GOP on their lying bullshit, rather than making some milquetoast beta bitch response.
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Oct 31, 2015 22:33
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I think there'd be more to "Hillary doesn't have the party!" if she were more milquetoast in her centrism, but she isn't John Kerry or Al Gore or Mondale or Dukakis. Making a long point short, Hillary will be able to hammer a few big notes, what with her being a woman and all, and her historic support for healthcare reform... And we still haven't seen how Bill Clinton will help her campaign. But that's not going to matter, because the Dems could nominate a bar of soap with a mustache and it would beat out whatever Republican gets through charnelhouse. Getting back to that, how the hell would Marco Rubio ever beat out Ted Cruz in a battle of chest-thumping idiocy? Cruz can wind up the loonies like nobody's business, and Rubio has the same nerdy shlub pitfalls that Jeb! has to deal with. Here's what I think it comes down to, again: Cruz has the infrastructure, the know-how, legislative record/discord, and a kind of rhetorical polish that no other candidate possesses. He's the loving antichrist, imo. Thank god we're not in the throes of a cultural revolution like we were when Nixon and Reagan were in power, because then we'd truly end up with President Cruz. I think they're creatures of the same cloth, waiting for peak kulturkampfen to strike. Thankfully for America, our society has indeed progressed since the mid-20th century, because I feel like every time the GOP has had a successful campaign (save Bush I), it's been the same end-around play in a very tumultuous position. Cruz fits into the mold that was cast by Nixon, perfected by Reagan, and dusted off by Dubya. MODS CURE JOKES fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Oct 31, 2015 |
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Oct 31, 2015 22:44
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Rap Record Hoarder posted:Why do you presume that because I don't like HRC (for substantive reasons) that I MUST be a Sanders devotee? Holy poo poo. Are you... are you an O'Malleyite? I mean, I know objectively that they have to exist, I mean, some people must be for him because he gets polling responses but... I mean, I never thought I'd actually meet one! Can I... can I touch you? Nothing... not sexual, I mean... I just want to make sure you're real...
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Oct 31, 2015 22:48
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If Hillary wants to put a lock on Democratic voter enthusiasm, she should up her derisive and belittling attitude towards Republicans by a thousand fold. I was lukewarm about the eventual prospect of voting for her in the primary, but after seeing her performance in the latest Benghazi hearings she can count on my (general election) vote because it's clear she hates Republicans just as much as I do. It'll drive them even more nuts and force more errors on their part, too.
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Oct 31, 2015 23:46
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Rap Record Hoarder posted:Why do you presume that because I don't like HRC (for substantive reasons) that I MUST be a Sanders devotee? It's pretty hilarious how if you point out that 'eh, maybe people don't like Hillary as much as you think', you get bombarded by people trying to get you banned or put money on the line over it. Mister Macys posted:Have a source for this? Because the entire Democratic Party establishment is behind her, last I checked, while Bernie only has the people, and nowhere near enough of them, at that. Seriously, why do you guys keep bringing up Bernie? The Rick Scott/Charlie Crist election in Florida is a pretty good example of what could happen. Rick Scott approval rating was in the toilet. Everybody thought that whoever the democrats selected would curb stomp him. Crist was previously the governor (as a Republican) and split the vote as an Independent causing Rick Scott to get elected the first time. Scott runs like $60 million dollars in smear ads against him and wins the election by a tiny margin. Now imagine that on a national level with Hillary (a lame centrist continuation of Obama) and an opponent who's exciting (if not a little crazy) Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Nov 1, 2015 |
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Nov 1, 2015 00:09
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I don't think anyone is ruling out potential weird fringe situations at all. They're just saying "Hilary is not well liked " is an objectively incorrect statement when based on actual polls and not anecdotes.
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Nov 1, 2015 00:25
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RagnarokAngel posted:I don't think anyone is ruling out potential weird fringe situations at all. They're just saying "Hilary is not well liked " is an objectively incorrect statement when based on actual polls and not anecdotes. It's less "Hillary is not well liked" and more "Hillary generates way less enthusiasm for her than republicans draw against her" Amusingly enough, Gun Control is a good example of this; most people are in favor of stricter gun laws, but a fraction of those people consider it a wedge issue hill worth dying on. Meanwhile the opposition both draws a ton of people ready to defend gun rights, and oft even draws energized bipartisan support. It's less a question of "are people okay with hillary" and more a question of "will a return to the pre-campaign obama concept of voting for the lesser evil retain enough voter enthusiasm".
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Nov 1, 2015 00:30
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Call Me Charlie posted:Now imagine that on a national level with Hillary (a lame centrist continuation of Obama) and an opponent who's exciting (if not a little crazy) RagnarokAngel posted:I don't think anyone is ruling out potential weird fringe situations at all. They're just saying "Hilary is not well liked " is an objectively incorrect statement when based on actual polls and not anecdotes. Nessus fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Nov 1, 2015 |
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Nov 1, 2015 00:35
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Call Me Charlie posted:
Wrong. She isn't running as a bipartisan centrist like Obama, she's running on the "I'm going to kick the GOP in the rear end and drag them, kicking and screaming- for the next eight years into modernity" platform. She will beat Obama's 2012 numbers, and probably even his 2008 wave of enthusiasm too.
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Nov 1, 2015 05:13
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As I've said, I don't love her centerism and hawkishness and bank wanking, and neither do my closest friends. However, I will be very enthusiastic about her in the general because she is so extremely competent, talented, thoughtful, smart, and just plain presidential. Also, other big-boy nations would respect her, and that IS important. She would probably be one of the best presidents we've ever had. Id rather vote for Bernie's policies, but I'll be pleased as poo poo to tell everyone to go vote for Hillary.
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Nov 1, 2015 05:19
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hillary clinton would Make America Great Again
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Nov 1, 2015 05:54
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Mister Macys posted:Wrong. She isn't running as a bipartisan centrist like Obama, she's running on the "I'm going to kick the GOP in the rear end and drag them, kicking and screaming- for the next eight years into modernity" platform. The problem is that she's running on this completely compartmentalized from actual ideological opposition. She's opposing The Enemy, not The Enemy's fiscal approach. "gently caress the republicans yeehaw!" Rings rather hollow when you dont support financial leftism and have a very shaky track record on social leftism.
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Nov 1, 2015 06:08
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Hillary might not be universally adored, but when you put the question "do you want Bill Clinton living in the White House again y/n?" to the American people, I'm reasonably confident that we can anticipate the answer.
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Nov 1, 2015 06:08
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The GOP killed any chance it had for a significant youth movement the day the economy collapsed. (among other events) Millennials likely associate them with W. and likely associate them with these happening on their watch: -Letting 9/11 happen and ending our "innocence" abrutly. -Destroying our reputation as a nation by entering into war with Iraq and Afganistan. Both were failures. -Hurricane Katrina ("Doing a heckuva job Brownie") -The economic collapse of 2007-2008. I think a lot of "young professional"-types that would have voted GOP were destroyed and lost forever during the 2007-2008 economic collapse. Opportunities that their parents once had were now scarce and a lot of hardship was dumped on them during that time. It also doesn't help that the only sound that seemed to be coming from the right post-2008 or so was this loud screeching sound of racism and being terrified of some really stupid inane poo poo.
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Nov 1, 2015 07:20
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FuzzySkinner posted:The GOP killed any chance it had for a significant youth movement the day the economy collapsed. (among other events) ronald reagan won the under-30 vote by 20 points in 1984 it's true that it's easy to overstate the speed with which the USA's political climate is changing, but it's loving insane to think of of how dominant these shitlords were only a generation ago
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Nov 1, 2015 07:32
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Neurolimal posted:It's less "Hillary is not well liked" and more "Hillary generates way less enthusiasm for her than republicans draw against her" GUNS! only works in low turnout elections. See for example Colorado, in which 2 Democratic state senators were voted out for supporting gun grabber legislation in a recall election, in which like a few thousand people voted, only for those seats to be regained by the Dems in Republican wave year 2014. Similarly, Gov. Hickenlooper got re-elected, running well ahead of the Democratic Senator Udall (who lost) despite having signed gun grabbing legislation. Coloradans like to shoot each other, hell, we had a mass shooting this morning. But guns are not a decisive factor unless literally no one but the shooty bang bang psychopath manchildren are voting.
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Nov 1, 2015 07:38
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Neurolimal posted:"gently caress the republicans yeehaw!" Rings rather hollow when you dont support financial leftism and have a very shaky track record on social leftism. "gently caress the republicans yeehaw!" is actually a giant motivator for people who correctly recognize that the Republicans are the enemy of all humankind, hth e: and your "financial leftism", a meaningless phrase, aint happening, ever, so why bother get your willy up in anticipation. Just stupid.
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Nov 1, 2015 07:42
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Eschers Basement posted:Holy poo poo. O'Malleable Because you know they'll be voting for Clinton in the general.
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Nov 1, 2015 07:44
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Trent posted:As I've said, I don't love her centerism and hawkishness and bank wanking, and neither do my closest friends. However, I will be very enthusiastic about her in the general because she is so extremely competent, talented, thoughtful, smart, and just plain presidential. Also, other big-boy nations would respect her, and that IS important. She would probably be one of the best presidents we've ever had.
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Nov 1, 2015 08:27
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icantfindaname posted:ronald reagan won the under-30 vote by 20 points in 1984 Since WWI every new generation can look at the previous one and go  pretty much though. The Cold War just loving blows my mind though.
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Nov 1, 2015 08:52
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Zeno-25 posted:If Hillary wants to put a lock on Democratic voter enthusiasm, she should up her derisive and belittling attitude towards Republicans by a thousand fold. Hillary doesn't need to incite the sexists into saying and doing things. Simply presuming to run/govern in a female body will do that. They'll no more be able to zip it than the racists could during Obama's run/presidency. It is like lancing a boil in society. A bunch of really gross stuff comes bubbling out but we are actually better off because now we can flush it instead of having it sicken us from within. Take a look at what happened to Todd Akin. His opponent was viewed as the most likely dem to lose their seat - but after his "legitimate rape" comment his numbers tanked and he only got 39% of the vote. Over half of voters in exit polls said that his rape comment was a deciding factor of their vote.. Akin split the male vote but lost the women's vote handily and far more women showed up to vote than men: Citation: http://archive.ksdk.com/news/article/346330/3/Missouri-exit-poll-Rape-remark-weighs-on-voters- But you wanna know the best bit? According to http://www.sos.mo.gov/elections/registeredvoters/2012 there were 4.2 million registered voters in Missouri in 2012. And 3.7 million people voted in 2012. that means they had a turnout rate of 88%. How many people voted in the prior presidential year of 2008? Only 2.9 million for a more normal turnout of 69% ( they had slightly more registered voters in 2008 oddly - http://www.sos.mo.gov/elections/registeredvoters/2008 ). That's still a tad higher than normal - but Obama was a historic first. And it's still far less than 88%. Open sexism did more to drive voter turnout than Barak, crowd whisperer, Obama. Eighty eight loving percent. People keep saying we need a wave election to clean house ... Or at least senate. They also keep saying that when voter turnout is high, dems win. Want to crank voter turnout way, way , WAY up? Get GOP candidates to say sexist things on record. Can we do that by running an old white guy for president? No. We can't. Can we do that by running Hillary Clinton? Why Yes. Yes we can.
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Nov 1, 2015 10:56
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McAlister posted:Why Yes. Yes we can. Hahaha, holy poo poo, you're right. I mean, how long before something utterly retarded explodes forth from the Tea Party about Hillary's gender? Hours, days, all it takes it one or two morons in a fairly reasonable position, and WHAM, Hillary wins.
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Nov 1, 2015 11:18
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RagnarokZ posted:Hahaha, holy poo poo, you're right. I'm trying to come up with a joke about birth certificates and legitimate candidates.
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Nov 1, 2015 15:52
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FuzzySkinner posted:The GOP killed any chance it had for a significant youth movement the day the economy collapsed. (among other events) I suppose the question is whether this holds out? Looking at Public Policy Polling doesn't show such a dramatic demographic shift away from the Republicans. Millenials will be more supportive of things like gay marriage or black people existing (perhaps with a desire to have collars on them) but that's not an inherently 'Democratic Party' thing, hence Log Cabin Republicans and Ben Carson's popularity. Speaking as someone lucky in this regard, how difficult is it to split politically with your parents in such a polarised country like America? In the UK it's pretty standard for your extended family to vary but it doesn't tend to get in the way of relationships.
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Nov 1, 2015 16:27
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Im looking forward to Hill vs Rub just because this clip is gonna get played nonstop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzhPd5M9WkQ&t=42s
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Nov 1, 2015 17:00
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Call Me Charlie posted:It's pretty hilarious how if you point out that 'eh, maybe people don't like Hillary as much as you think', you get bombarded by people trying to get you banned or put money on the line over it. Except the mantra for years has been how terrible Hillary is and no one likes her. Case in point: quote:Now imagine that on a national level with Hillary (a lame centrist continuation of Obama)
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Nov 1, 2015 17:11
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Call Me Charlie posted:It's pretty hilarious how if you point out that 'eh, maybe people don't like Hillary as much as you think', you get bombarded by people trying to get you banned or put money on the line over it. Well yes suggesting you put money on it if you're so sure sounds pretty dumb if all you said was "eh maybe" instead of Call Me Charlie posted:If Hillary wins the nomination, there's no chance of her winning the election. Put her against any Republican candidate and Democrats will sit on their hands while right-wingers come out in record numbers to make sure 'anybody-but-Hillary' wins.
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Nov 1, 2015 17:35
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FuzzySkinner posted:The GOP killed any chance it had for a significant youth movement the day the economy collapsed. (among other events) true. but it also helped create the younger radical rights bigger presence on the internet. and alot of them make cruz and ryan look like sanders. now to say that this could be real threat/voting block is unknown. but it doesnt help that the GOP is radicalizing fast to what ever the base wants it to be.
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Nov 1, 2015 18:11
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RagnarokZ posted:Hahaha, holy poo poo, you're right. This is a fun idea. I love Bernie but if he doesn't win now I have something else to look forward to.
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Nov 1, 2015 18:11
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