Football Manager series: It's your tactics, mate

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Armchair Quarterback > Football Manager series: It's your tactics, mate

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Shroud: May 11, 2009

I did my usual testing-the-waters-with-Arsenal with the beta, and quit in disgust.

I made it to mid-September when Kolasinac complained that he wasn't getting enough playing time. I told him that Monreal was playing well (rating was 7.28), and to wait for his chance. He said Monreal wasn't playing that well and threw a tantrum. Most of the squad followed suit. I decided I'd humor them, and promised to play Kolasinac more often. I only had a month to keep my promise, so I started him every league match, and let Monreal have the Europa league + cups.

Lo and behold, mid-October rolls around, and now Monreal is complaining that he's not getting enough playing time.

Going to try Fiorentina now with a 4-3-1-2.

# ¿ Oct 31, 2017 03:04

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 05:20

Shroud: May 11, 2009

sassassin posted:

Did you change their squad status to reflect how much football they'd be getting? A Key Player is going to whinge if they're not starting all the time.

Kolasinac was Rotation, Monreal was either Key or First Team.

# ¿ Nov 1, 2017 19:21

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Adrianics posted:

There's options for scenarios in team briefing (setting team instructions if 2-0 up etc) which is goddamned amazing and something I've wanted for a long time, but I can't find any way of doing this in the normal tactics screen.

Go to the Tactics screen, then click "Match Plans".

# ¿ Nov 13, 2017 21:48

Shroud: May 11, 2009

This handsome fellow showed up during a corner:

# ¿ Nov 19, 2017 04:22

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Zaodai posted:

When in doubt, nobody ever questions a folder that has "Management" in the title, so you're halfway there as it is.

"Management , Training, and Motivation 2018". They'll line up in droves not to open that folder.

# ¿ Jan 4, 2018 19:20

Shroud: May 11, 2009

If anyone would like to have newgens with a Perfectionist personality, there's an unemployed Brazilian named "Iarley" who'd like to be a HoYD. He's pretty cheap - I have him on 3k/week.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2018 00:23

Shroud: May 11, 2009

From SI:

quote:

Another piece of information on this one for you. Your youth staff will also slightly influence the PA of your 'best' or extreme newgens. All of your youth staff act in this way, but the HoYD's impact is twice that of other youth coaches. This will not affect every newgen nor the average newgen but rather only the "star" or "freak" newgens that may occasionally come through the system. It is also important to note that this is only one part of a larger equation when it comes to star/freak newgen PA.

quote:

What are the desirable attributes in those staff to maximize the PA of said players?

quote:

Judging Player Potential and Working With Youngsters.

I would like to stress that 20 & 20 here does not come close to guaranteeing maximising those player's possible PAs though; there are several factors involved along with a healthy slice of luck.

# ¿ Mar 30, 2018 23:35

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Triple threat of Nicholas Millan, Sherman Cardenas, and Rene Mihelic.

# ¿ Apr 17, 2018 16:25

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Does the Carrilero role work as advertised? I want to experiment with some oddball formations & tactics.

# ¿ Jun 21, 2018 01:50

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Are formations with 3 AMCs broken? I've started doing a lot better with a 4-1-2-3-0.

Instructions are Play Slightly Narrower, Retain Possession, Close Down More.

Destroyed a full-strength Liverpool (I'm in my second season with Arsenal - 2018/2019) 3-0, with Reine-Adelaide and Malcolm as my SSs, and Iwobi as my AP. I then turned around and nearly lost to Sporting in the CL, barely winning 2-1 :shrug:

. May have had something to do with Sporting playing Defensive with a 4-2DM-2-2, but I couldn't be bothered.

# ¿ Jul 4, 2018 03:09

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Get your wallets ready, gentlemen. FM 2019 is up for pre-purchase. Hilariously enough, the Steam page doesn't list a single new feature other than the Bundesliga being licensed.

# ¿ Aug 6, 2018 12:58

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Weedle posted:

Lol the US will never invest in youth soccer

It's funny, even here in the Deep South, all the (white) kids play soccer until about middle school (6th - 8th grade). Then they get pushed into "real" sports.

I grew up in a city with ~ 20,000 people, and every Saturday, we'd have 6 fields full of organized play, with morning and noon matches. It's all organized into leagues, and all that stuff. When you look a little closer, though, you can count the teenagers on one hand.

# ¿ Aug 8, 2018 17:09

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Goddamnit, Anderlecht. That lone striker is like a plastic cherry on a poo poo cake.

I'm half-tempted to do one better. I have PSG in my CL group. Been thinking about a 4-3DM-CM-2WM formation. Wonder how the ME handles no one in the attacking half?

# ¿ Aug 13, 2018 22:29

Shroud: May 11, 2009

How about that. Je suis Anderlecht, I guess.

# ¿ Aug 15, 2018 22:25

Shroud: May 11, 2009

OK, I laughed at this one

# ¿ Aug 16, 2018 16:53

Shroud: May 11, 2009

sassassin posted:

I've either been removed from the closed beta with no one telling me or the game is running very, very late.

I'd refund any preorders if I were you.

They need to just move to a two-year release model. They release it later and later every year, and the changes are more and more underwhelming.

# ¿ Sep 21, 2018 20:57

Shroud: May 11, 2009

sassassin posted:

The rate physical attributes decrease in older players would make way more sense if Pace and Acceleration were rated properly in the database. If everything worked as intended, a 9 Pace Gary Bale would have a sprint speed one notch slower than the average modern professional footballer i.e. not slow at all.

But people have got it into their heads that anything less than 10 is a snail. Per Mertesacker had 11 pace for years ffs. In real life Pirlo didn't reach the match engine's Pace 1 during an entire World Cup (and he was good in it). There should be Pace 3/4/5 players throughout the database, even at the top level.

As a result they've had to hack in some nonsense to make actual fast players stand out, since there's no meaningful difference between the top speeds of 3/4 of players in the game (that safe 12-15 range researchers love). Those turbo boosts where your 19-20 winger burns through the opposition are scripted. With the ball they can't outrun your average 13-14 defender (unless they have Messi-like Technique and Dribbling).

I was under the impression that Pace meant nothing in the ME - something like Pace 1 is 75% as fast as Pace 20. I thought I read that Acceleration was the one that mattered, and that showed a noticeable variance at different values.

# ¿ Sep 26, 2018 06:20

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Argues with officials

# ¿ Oct 30, 2018 23:08

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Bogan Krkic posted:

Is it just me finding FM19 a lot easier than previous versions? I've played 4 seasons as West Ham, and have won the League Cup 3 times, the Europa League twice, the Premier League and the FA Cup once each. I haven't won the Champions League but idk if i really care about that at this point, so uh does anyone have any recommendations on a good challenge I should take up?

There's always the classic Bilbao challenge (Basque and/or Spanish U18s only).

Has anyone noticed that defenders are incredibly good at blocking crosses all of a sudden. I'm Arsenal, playing Shrewsbury, and I've literally just seen 10 crosses blocked in the first half alone. I'm pretty sure I don't remember that being much of a thing in previous versions. Looking at the first 35 minutes, the only crosses that have been completed are corners.

# ¿ Dec 2, 2018 21:13

Shroud: May 11, 2009

sassassin posted:

It's a known bug since, like, months ago. To try to get things balanced first they broke movement of attacking midfielders, then they made wide players stop and wait for defenders to catch up before crossing.

Once again the first beta match engine was objectively so much better.

On an unrelated note, is there a list anywhere of the hardcoded behaviors of the different specialist roles (for example, mezzala/carrilero)? As an example, if I understand correctly, you can give a CM the same instructions as the mezzala, but their actions won't match up because of these hidden behaviors.

# ¿ Dec 3, 2018 02:52

Shroud: May 11, 2009

A question and a tip:

Do attacking players need concentration if you're not asking them to defend (for example, an advanced forward or trequartista)?

FYI, if you ever want to see a cross completed, never select "Low Crosses". Found that out the hard way.

# ¿ Jan 10, 2019 03:43

Shroud: May 11, 2009

sassassin posted:

Concentration is defined as Consistency on a moment by moment basis (rather than game by game) so yes it's as important for attacking players as it is defenders. Technical and Mental attributes suffer when Concentration fails.

The mechanics aren't quite as simple as Consistency (which is a flat 'rating/25' chance to perform to visible attributes) as it's weighted towards having more of an effect later in games. Win games by half time and you don't really need it.

Thanks!

# ¿ Jan 11, 2019 03:20

Shroud: May 11, 2009

I think injury risk increases significantly once you drop below 60 or 70 percent as well.

# ¿ Jan 11, 2019 18:57

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Do keepers have technical attributes other than Goalkeeping? I'm wondering if those are hidden attributes, simulated, or generated when they play in the outfield.

# ¿ Jan 23, 2019 18:02

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Does the update fix the scenario on corners where your players leave the opposition completely unmarked at the edge of the 18-yard box, even when you leave someone on "Edge of Area" duty?

# ¿ Mar 3, 2019 22:12

Shroud: May 11, 2009

My heart knows SI won't do it, but they really need to take a year off to prune/update the match engine & database. It's ridiculous when you only have one product, and miss glaring bugs like this, the shooting at acute angles bug, etc.

Maybe charge $10 for roster updates for the "gap" year or something - I don't know.

# ¿ Nov 19, 2019 05:36

Shroud: May 11, 2009

sassassin posted:

In their defence it wasn't a major issue in earlier versions (my earliest save started with a squad of nobodies with 5-10 determination, which took work but was manageable) and only seems to have started generating all the 1s in the last week. Wrong time to tell one of the coders they're being laid off imho.

And most of the match engine bugs exist to keep scorelines down/"realistic". Because defending is a shitshow. If players don't stop before crossing, refuse to do cut backs, get flagged offside all the time etc. every game would finish 5-5. There's only a few issues that actually create more goals (the penalties one, which is again very recent, and defenders kicking the ball out for loving corners under no pressure you idiots, you cowards, which is decades old at this point).

The core issues of the match engine imo are dribbling having no impact on pace (so players can run accurately with the ball as fast as they can run without it) and really poor logic for when a player should stay with a man, and when they should get back into shape, particularly in wide areas. The more noticeable poor decision making on the ball exists to cover for these deficiencies.

�10 wouldn't cover the annual licensing costs.

Thanks, didn't realize that. Part of of it, too, is that they keep releasing it later and later every year. Seems like FM 2022 is going to be release in January 2023 at this point.

# ¿ Nov 19, 2019 14:36

Shroud: May 11, 2009

sassassin posted:

I played against some Welsh second division lads in a 7 a side tournament once upon a time and they were relentless. 15 minute game I think we conceded double figures.

Would you say you were being overrun in midfield?

# ¿ Jul 19, 2020 19:10

Shroud: May 11, 2009

For those with the game, how is the match engine? Any major bugs, or alternatively, anything really neat?

# ¿ Nov 24, 2020 15:16

Shroud: May 11, 2009

sassassin posted:

Hmm I wonder if people have been talking about his previously itt.

Was just checking to see if SI did the beta/full release match engine bait-and-switch.

sassassin posted:

Quite liking how target man works this year. Not seeing as many pointless long balls towards it, but does attract enough to stop my team trying to play in the advanced forward over the top constantly.

Yours was the only quote about it since release. Apologies if I'm wrong, though.

# ¿ Nov 24, 2020 18:38

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Another question - is anyone running FM on the new M1 Macbooks? If so, how's it running?

# ¿ Nov 25, 2020 04:10

Shroud: May 11, 2009

sassassin posted:

I did all of Giggs' tactical data this year. They didn't let me destroy his personality though.

Controversy = 20
Loyalty = 0
Professionalism = 0
Sportsmanship = 0

Personality = Fickle

Please tell me that's what you tried to submit

# ¿ Dec 14, 2020 15:05

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Masonity posted:

To be fair, he looked about 40 by the time he turned 25.

No wonder he was so into grannies.

# ¿ Mar 18, 2021 22:49

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Not sure if this says more about me, or FM:

Started a new save as Hertha - chill Board expectations (mid-table), a side good enough to get there, some cash in the bank, biggest team in Berlin, etc.

Set up a vanilla 4-2-3-1 with 2 attacking roles (Trequartista at AML, AF at striker).
No instructions whatsoever (individual/opposition/team), to let the players play and not risk conflicting instructions. I'm also curious to see what they do with their freedom.

Bought one 16 year old Spanish kid from Barcelona to be my future AM for 375k as my only transfer.

We're now 3rd in the league after 24 played. My striker (Piatek) has 15 goals in 21 and my trequartista has 11 goals, 6 assists in 23.

I'd like to see if I can turn Hertha into one of the "big" clubs, then maybe try a different tactic without instructions to see if I can replicate these results.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2021 01:55

Shroud: May 11, 2009

One thing I've really noticed in this edition is that tactical familiarity makes a huge difference. I can play like Guardiola's Barcelona with my main tactic (not really, but good to watch), but when I switch to another formation, I see football that would shame an U13 side.

# ¿ Jul 10, 2021 02:23

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Eric the Mauve posted:

Yeah but if you stick to the same tactic all season you'll get murdered in the spring.

Funny you should say that...

# ¿ Jul 10, 2021 02:49

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Trip report - got found out. Form has taken a nosedive. Do I just change formation now?

# ¿ Jul 12, 2021 20:26

Shroud: May 11, 2009

sassassin posted:

Generally when you overperform the AI will kick their appreciation of your footballing power up one notch. Which means they will sit back more and play more slowly. This is called "defensive" in FM but it's probably closer to what the top sides do in real life - patient build play designed to break down stubborn stains ("attacking" is more like Bielsa's Leeds, or playground football). It's why people will complain about relegation-battlers looking like Barcelona when they play them. It can be hard to get the ball and supposedly awful teams will discover gaps in your system you didn't know were there because they were previously just chucking it forward expecting to batter you. If you were chucking it forward before you suddenly find an extra man or two in the way and your rare attacks come to nothing.

The method I use to overcome a slump caused by overperforming is to 1) play slower (usually just the tempo setting, I don't touch overall mentality) and 2) move one player further forward. In my last career I started with a basic 5-3-2, but midseason moved one centre half to AML and dropped the wingbacks into a back 4 (but still with the same roles). Because the opposition were committing fewer bodies forward early I didn't need the extra defender, but did need the extra man to build attacks and run at people, and also press players on the ball.

This concept also works the same for game management. If I go a goal ahead I can drop a man back and play faster as I know the opposition will push forward and leave spaces. If I concede early I need to push higher and be more patient as they're likely to park the bus.

Thanks for the advice! I'm running a generic 4-2-3-1, though. If I push someone up, I'll get slaughtered.

Thinking of pulling the AMC down to an MC. Or switching to the 4-1-2-3.

# ¿ Jul 13, 2021 02:48

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Trequartista with 1 in Decisions.

# ¿ Jul 17, 2021 01:47

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 05:20

Shroud: May 11, 2009

Slotducks posted:

Is there a centre mid only-presses no playmaking ever short passes only role in FM2021? Cause he could probably do that to a tee

BWM-D.

# ¿ Jul 20, 2021 18:35

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Armchair Quarterback > Football Manager series: It's your tactics, mate

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