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All aboard the Liberal Intervention in the Middle East Express, next stop: Yet Another Forever War.
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Nov 30, 2015 22:51
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LemonDrizzle posted:Camerons's stuck two fingers up at Corbyn and scheduled a one-day debate on bombing Syria. To precisely nobody's surprise.
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Nov 30, 2015 22:54
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What will be interesting, for me at least, is seeing which Tories rebel and which Labour members vote for airstrikes. Might be worth noting the Lablairites down for future reference.
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Nov 30, 2015 22:56
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Interestingly there was a pro-corbyn article in the spectator this week - saying that his foreign policy was basically reasonable but easy to caricature, and more honest and consistent than David Cameron's.
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Nov 30, 2015 23:01
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Tesseraction posted:Might be worth noting the Lablairites down for future reference.
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Nov 30, 2015 23:04
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Tesseraction posted:What will be interesting, for me at least, is seeing which Tories rebel and which Labour members vote for airstrikes. I'm most interested in seeing if anyone who voted for Iraq in 2003 has learned their lessons. They can't all be up for it again? Surely?
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Nov 30, 2015 23:11
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This isn't Iraq 2003, this is more like Libya 2011. For now.
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Nov 30, 2015 23:25
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forkboy84 posted:I'm most interested in seeing if anyone who voted for Iraq in 2003 has learned their lessons. They can't all be up for it again? Surely? I wonder... has a politician who voted for a catastrophic war learned their lesson... hmmm I wonder...
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Nov 30, 2015 23:26
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Pissflaps posted:This isn't Iraq 2003, this is more like Libya 2011. Ah yes, Libya 2011, that intervention worked out fantastically well!! Everything's going to be alright chaps and chapesses and fluidchaps
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Nov 30, 2015 23:27
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Guavanaut posted:I believe Oberleutnant has a list. I've seen the list and it's just dickbutt. It was all a pretense.
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Nov 30, 2015 23:31
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Guavanaut posted:I believe Oberleutnant has a list. I regret to announce that the list in question was inadvertently left on a train some weeks ago, along with comprehensive details of the structure and membership of the UKMT direct action and logistics cells, maps and operational plans, a full list of guerrillero code names and their phone numbers, email address and neopets usernames. 
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Nov 30, 2015 23:32
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To be fair, we just wrecked everything from the air then got out of Libya leaving it a broken mess. Which I imagine is also what's going to happen in Syria, even David Cameron isn't stupid and reckless enough to actually end up in a ground war there. e: That's probably the best case scenario, worst case scenario is total nuclear annihilation in WW3. XMNN fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Nov 30, 2015 |
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Nov 30, 2015 23:33
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Pissflaps posted:This isn't Iraq 2003, this is more like Libya 2011. Just quoting this for future reference when someone takes Pissflaps seriously.
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Nov 30, 2015 23:33
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Tesseraction posted:Just quoting this for future reference when someone takes Pissflaps seriously. Do you think that air strikes against IS in Syria is more like a full scale ground invasion or a limited air war?
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Nov 30, 2015 23:36
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We've learned the hard lessons of our failures in rebuilding nations and will stop doing so in future. We're loving amazing at destabilising places with military adventurism though so why stop doing that bit? namesake fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Nov 30, 2015 |
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Nov 30, 2015 23:36
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Pissflaps posted:Do you think that a possible air strikes against IS in Syria is more like a full scale ground invasion or a limited air war? Do you think either Iraq or Libya are stable right now?
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Nov 30, 2015 23:37
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How can we stop pissflaps? Is there somewhere we can bomb that'll stop that?
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Nov 30, 2015 23:38
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Tesseraction posted:Do you think either Iraq or Libya are stable right now? You missed the question: do you think that air strikes against IS in Syria is more like a full scale ground invasion or a limited air war?
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Nov 30, 2015 23:38
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JFairfax posted:Ah yes, Libya 2011, that intervention worked out fantastically well!! The intervention went well, it prevented Gaddafi from killing a whole bunch of people. It's hardly fair to blame the current civil war on Western intervention, since it was long over by the time it started.
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Nov 30, 2015 23:38
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Tesseraction posted:Just quoting this for future reference when someone takes Pissflaps seriously. Ah yes, the Syrian air strikes are exactly like a concentrated ground invasion of Iraq. Jesus christ give me strength.
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Nov 30, 2015 23:38
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:How can we stop pissflaps? Is there somewhere we can bomb that'll stop that? I've worked it out.
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Nov 30, 2015 23:39
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Apparently the reason last Syria vote was lost was because lots of Tory MPs were in their constituencies, that's why it's all taking place on Wednesday. How many Labour MPs are we talking about voting for airstrikes here? Is the majority of the party against Corbyn on this one?
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Nov 30, 2015 23:41
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Kurtofan posted:The intervention went well, it prevented Gaddafi from killing a whole bunch of people. It's hardly fair to blame the current civil war on Western intervention, since it was long over by the time it started. lol we prevented Gaddafi from killing a bunch of people by killing a bunch of people and by removing the head of state totally didn't cause the conditions for a civil war grab for power
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Nov 30, 2015 23:41
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J_RBG posted:Apparently the reason last Syria vote was lost was because lots of Tory MPs were in their constituencies, that's why it's all taking place on Wednesday. Reliable information isn't available, I don't think.
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Nov 30, 2015 23:44
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Gaddafi was a loving shithead who needed to get got.
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Nov 30, 2015 23:44
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thespaceinvader posted:Reliable information isn't available, I don't think. quite apt for a vote about bombing Syria hahaha
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Nov 30, 2015 23:44
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Oberleutnant posted:Gaddafi was a loving shithead who needed to get got. so was Saddam then?
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Nov 30, 2015 23:44
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Pissflaps posted:You missed the question: do you think that air strikes against IS in Syria is more like a full scale ground invasion or a limited air war? So you admit that you don't understand consequences, you'll just assume a hammer will always work if you call everything a nail. For the record, of course it's an air war. But this shows why you're dangerously bad at foreign policy. serious gaylord posted:Ah yes, the Syrian air strikes are exactly like a concentrated ground invasion of Iraq. Jesus christ give me strength. I think I need to make it clear, I'm going to reply to this post now but from here on in I'll not reply to you because I don't like enabling people with severe learning disabilities. So, for my final response: improperly focused attacks does not solve the anti-Western ideology which caused terrorist attacks in Britain in 2005 and in France in 2015.
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Nov 30, 2015 23:45
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Bombing did not bring stability to Libya just like it won't bring stability to Syria. Also this time we'll effectively be intervening on behalf of the murderous dictator (I'm assuming we're not going to be bombing Assad's forces, them being backed by Russia and all).
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Nov 30, 2015 23:46
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XMNN posted:Bombing did not bring stability to Libya just like it won't bring stability to Syria. Also this time we'll effectively be intervening on behalf of the murderous dictator (I'm assuming we're not going to be bombing Assad's forces, them being backed by Russia and all). Ah but don't you see, this time we won't be bombing against the dictator. This means we'll win and stability will be guaranteed forevermore. Just like when we brought democracy to Iraq in 2003 by toppling Saddam, leading to democratic peace ever after.
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Nov 30, 2015 23:48
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JFairfax posted:so was Saddam then?
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Nov 30, 2015 23:48
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Tesseraction posted:So you admit that you don't understand consequences, you'll just assume a hammer will always work if you call everything a nail. For the record, of course it's an air war. But this shows why you're dangerously bad at foreign policy. Have you considered that maybe somebody who has 'learned the lessons of 2003' might have concluded that 'doing a 2011' is the acceptable method of military intervention in the middle east. Probably not.
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Nov 30, 2015 23:48
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Oberleutnant posted:Gaddafi was a loving shithead who needed to get got. Yeah, he was. But getting rid of him & then just washing our hands left us with a total mess. Frankly the only time to get involved in Syria is after we have a plan for what the gently caress to do in the peace. Getting rid of Gaddafi & doing nothing didn't work. Getting rid of Hussein & placing a really weak government didn't work. So if getting rid of Assad is even an option (& I doubt it is considering Russian's position on him) we'd need some sort of idea of how to build a strong Syrian state that's more than just an empty puppet of the west. Probably need to spend a gently caress ton of money helping Syria to recover too. Getting rid of "bad guys" is pointless if even worse bad guys are just going to fill the void, or basic chaos & civil war fills it, whatever.
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Nov 30, 2015 23:49
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Pissflaps posted:Have you considered that maybe somebody who has 'learned the lessons of 2003' might have concluded that 'doing a 2011' is the acceptable method of military intervention in the middle east. Libya is currently undergoing a bloody civil war with sectarian onslaught. Did you forget that?
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Nov 30, 2015 23:49
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thespaceinvader posted:Reliable information isn't available, I don't think. This just in, WMD's are in Syria!!! Well actually I suppose thats slightly more true than of iraq but still. Hooray for poorly thought out intelligence. Tesseraction posted:I think I need to make it clear, I'm going to reply to this post now but from here on in I'll not reply to you because I don't like enabling people with severe learning disabilities. So, for my final response: improperly focused attacks does not solve the anti-Western ideology which caused terrorist attacks in Britain in 2005 and in France in 2015. Ah yes, the good old fashioned parting shot combined with a personal attack on someones intelligence. Might have stung a little bit more if you'd have actually read the post first mind.
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Nov 30, 2015 23:49
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Tesseraction posted:Libya is currently undergoing a bloody civil war with sectarian onslaught. Did you forget that? At what political cost to Westminster politicians.
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Nov 30, 2015 23:50
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serious gaylord posted:Ah yes, the good old fashioned parting shot combined with a personal attack on someones intelligence. Might have stung a little bit more if you'd have actually read the post first mind. I just said I wouldn't enable you; I did read the post.
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Nov 30, 2015 23:50
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Pissflaps posted:Have you considered that maybe somebody who has 'learned the lessons of 2003' might have concluded that 'doing a 2011' is the acceptable method of military intervention in the middle east. I'd hope someone learning the lessons of 2003 would also reflect on the lessons learned from the Libyan intervention, which turned out pretty poorly. Mind you, only 15 MPs voted against the Lybian intervention, even Diane Abbott was for it. And yes, Corbyn & McDonnell were among the 15.
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Nov 30, 2015 23:50
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Saddam, Gaddafi and Assad were all vile murdering torturing animals, but the hundreds of thousands dead and the countries laid to waste make it difficult to say getting rid of them was unequivocally a good thing.
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Nov 30, 2015 23:50
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Pissflaps posted:At what political cost to Westminster politicians. So are you basing foreign policy over its domestic response or on its foreign achievements?
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Nov 30, 2015 23:51
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