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GlitchThief posted:No Lives Matter American Lives Matter
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Nov 23, 2015 19:59
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It's not the messaging that is pissing them off. They are pissed at being confronted with the fact that black people are treated worse by society than white people. They have been sold an idea that America is a meritocracy and you get exactly what you deserve. If black people are treated worse by the police and a larger percentage of them are in jail than other races it must be their fault and BLM activists are whiners that are trying to pull a con. Being more specific in their slogan isn't going to change anyone's opinion. Is isn't brainless moderates that are putting in the effort to publicly say "All Lives Matter", it's racists that know exactly what they are saying in order to shut down discussion. Anything slogan BLM used would get the same treatment and saying they should be more careful not to offend white people is silly.
Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Nov 23, 2015 |
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Nov 23, 2015 19:59
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The Kingfish posted:Wingnuts and racists aren't the target audience, luckily. "With media complicity" assumes everybody becomes the audience to that peddled bullshit. Moderates don't get to pretend to be agnostic on the issue, it's loving racism in America as the issue.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:59
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A Winner is Jew posted:Reminder that according to conservatives black people just standing outside of polling places = voter intimidation by blacks. Clearly the issue is messaging.
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Nov 23, 2015 20:00
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Both Chicago and New York style pizza is delicious and anyone who says otherwise is No True Pizza fan
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Nov 23, 2015 20:01
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Radish posted:It's not the messaging that is pissing them off. They are pissed at being confronted with the fact that black people are treated worse by society than white people. They have been sold an idea that America is a meritocracy and you get exactly what you deserve. If black people are treated worse by the police and a larger percentage of in jail than other races it must be their fault and BLM activists are whiners that are trying to pull a con. Being more specific in their slogan isn't going to change anyone's opinion. Is isn't brainless moderates that are putting in the effort to publicly say "All Lives Matter", it's racists that know exactly what they are saying in order to shut down discussion. Anything slogan BLM used would get the same treatment and saying they should be more careful not to offend white people is silly. Poor people are treated worse in America. Are they pissed off because poor people are treated worse, or because they're assumed to be poor when they're oft of middle-class background?
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Nov 23, 2015 20:01
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Popular Thug Drink posted:i've got an idea: let's stop faulting the oppressed what a wild idea how did it not occur to me before
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Nov 23, 2015 20:02
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gently caress You And Diebold posted:Both Chicago and New York style pizza is delicious and anyone who says otherwise is No True Pizza fan I don't know why more people can't be pizza moderates, the good kind of moderate.
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Nov 23, 2015 20:03
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:Expanding on what Popular Thug Drink said up there, we still hear poo poo about Black History Month every year. It doesn't matter what you call the movement, because people will use the same messaging against it. "Well, really, we need to be nicer to everybody, this doesn't need to be a race thing!  Also New Haven pizza is factually the best pizza.
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Nov 23, 2015 20:03
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gently caress You And Diebold posted:Both Chicago and New York style pizza is delicious and anyone who says otherwise is No True Pizza fan  Santullo's is good pizza at 1943 W. North Ave. No matter how much we disagree, we can always agree that provel pizza is absolute poo poo, and that StL style pizza is cardboard without real cheese on top.
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Nov 23, 2015 20:04
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A bad comic
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Nov 23, 2015 20:04
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Kill Whitey
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Nov 23, 2015 20:05
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All of the pizza posted in the last few pages is garbage looking, and grade-school level in appearance. Nobody's beats Home Slice Pizza.
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Nov 23, 2015 20:06
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Neither of the houses are black, well at least for now
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Nov 23, 2015 20:06
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Humans Among Us posted:A bad comic A bad poster
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Nov 23, 2015 20:06
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zoux posted:I think I've seen more people worrying about Thanksgiving dinner with conservatives this year than any year I can remember. Why don't more people just respond with "I think it's tacky to try and start political arguments at Thanksgiving dinner -- pass the stuffing." It's worked well for my family.
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Nov 23, 2015 20:06
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:Why don't more people just respond with "I think it's tacky to try and start political arguments at Thanksgiving dinner -- pass the stuffing." It's worked well for my family. Pretty communist.
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Nov 23, 2015 20:07
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:Why don't more people just respond with "I think it's tacky to try and start political arguments at Thanksgiving dinner -- pass the stuffing." It's worked well for my family. Well I think both sides want to yell at an actual representative of the other side where they can't get fired or beaten up.
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Nov 23, 2015 20:07
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Pizza is only good in rolls form.
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Nov 23, 2015 20:08
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Radish posted:It's not the messaging that is pissing them off. They are pissed at being confronted with the fact that black people are treated worse by society than white people. They have been sold an idea that America is a meritocracy and you get exactly what you deserve. If black people are treated worse by the police and a larger percentage of them are in jail than other races it must be their fault and BLM activists are whiners that are trying to pull a con. Being more specific in their slogan isn't going to change anyone's opinion. Is isn't brainless moderates that are putting in the effort to publicly say "All Lives Matter", it's racists that know exactly what they are saying in order to shut down discussion. Anything slogan BLM used would get the same treatment and saying they should be more careful not to offend white people is silly. I understand that but in this case the slogan that was arrived upon, spontaneously or otherwise, makes it so trivially easy to deflect and change the conversation that the substance of the protests doesn't even have to come up, much less be contradicted. Like is your logic here that any avenue of protest is equally easily shut down and discredited, and therefore any form of protest that does occur is equally effective just by existing? And thus ways to improve the effectiveness of the protest aren't worth considering?
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Nov 23, 2015 20:08
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Nonsense posted:Pretty communist. This is literally what my dad would say when we would go out for Chinese food. "Sharing is collectivism!" He would order sweet and sour pork for himself and we all would order family style like normal people.
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Nov 23, 2015 20:08
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:Why don't more people just respond with "I think it's tacky to try and start political arguments at Thanksgiving dinner -- pass the stuffing." It's worked well for my family. Thanksgiving is about conquest. We must stand alone, victorious.
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Nov 23, 2015 20:09
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stinkles1112 posted:I understand that but in this case the slogan that was arrived upon, spontaneously or otherwise, makes it so trivially easy to deflect and change the conversation that the substance of the protests doesn't even have to come up, much less be contradicted. you really keep insisting that "black lives matter" is critically flawed as a glib rhetorical statement but it doesn't appear to be any more flawed than uh anything else that a black person might say or write maybe to you it pops out as being tantamount to some kind of slogan from the haitian revolution but it's a really innocuous statement and simply asserting that it is terrible from your perspective is just going to make people question the validity and impartiality of your perspective fyi white americans feel like they are overwhelmingly discriminated against so it doesn't seem like converting the statement "black lives matter" into "black lives are the only ones that matter" is in any way a fault with the statement, it is a fault with the internal biases of the individuals who do not want to accept the statement, and the solution is not to coddle and comfort these frankly moronic people boner confessor fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Nov 23, 2015 |
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Nov 23, 2015 20:10
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Ron Jeremy posted:This is literally what my dad would say when we would go out for Chinese food. "Sharing is collectivism!" Your dad is a massive selfish rear end in a top hat hth.
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Nov 23, 2015 20:11
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stinkles1112 posted:I understand that but in this case the slogan that was arrived upon, spontaneously or otherwise, makes it so trivially easy to deflect and change the conversation that the substance of the protests doesn't even have to come up, much less be contradicted. I think the logic here is it doesn't matter how you repackage it, people will always come up with an excuse to delegitimize the movement, precisely because said people cannot conceive that the meritocracy they were sold on is a lie.
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Nov 23, 2015 20:11
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Popular Thug Drink posted:you really keep insisting that "black lives matter" is critically flawed as a glib rhetorical statement but it doesn't appear to be any more flawed than uh anything else that a black person might say or write could be better != is terrible, fyi
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Nov 23, 2015 20:11
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stinkles1112 posted:could be better != is terrible, fyi hey, collective outrage of young persons of color reacting to a racist and oppresive society that murders you on the street! calm down and get your poo poo together if you want whitebread moderately racist america to be on your side! get a job!
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Nov 23, 2015 20:14
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I posted this last page. http://fusion.net/story/184032/black-lives-matter-martin-luther-king-hate-mail/ It's a lot of the same sort of "why don't you care about white people??" and "black people commit more crime against blacks" nonsense directed at MLK. Saying that "Black Lives Matter" was too easy to subvert isn't true since any slogan would be changed to try and shift the conversation from racial inequality to some false idea that people want everyone equal when they actual just want the status quo to be maintained. Trying to shift the fault to them for white people not wanting to end black oppression because of them isn't really helpful. Thinking that leaving off "too" from the end is why "moderates" aren't resonating with that slogan is really incorrect. If "All Lives Matter" wasn't a thing no one would think "Black Lives Matter" is inherently contentious, especially since it was in response to a number a recent events where the US Justice system sided with murderers over their black victims. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Nov 23, 2015 |
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Nov 23, 2015 20:15
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Popular Thug Drink posted:hey, collective outrage of young persons of color reacting to a racist and oppresive society that murders you on the street! calm down and get your poo poo together if you want whitebread moderately racist america to be on your side! get a job! The only position your dial has is "cranked to eleven" isn't it? I'm gonna take a wild stab and guess that you probably don't have a great track record of convincing people of the correctness your opinions.
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Nov 23, 2015 20:16
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zoux posted:Well I think both sides want to yell at an actual representative of the other side where they can't get fired or beaten up. Pretty much. Feeling angry has short term benefits on mood, and so much of our conversations seem organized around contorting reality so you can be righteously angry. This isn't to say there's not a lot of poo poo to be angry about, there loving is, but that no one is the rational calm super genius they think they are.
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Nov 23, 2015 20:17
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Radish posted:It's not the messaging that is pissing them off. They are pissed at being confronted with the fact that black people are treated worse by society than white people. They have been sold an idea that America is a meritocracy and you get exactly what you deserve. If black people are treated worse by the police and a larger percentage of them are in jail than other races it must be their fault and BLM activists are whiners that are trying to pull a con. Being more specific in their slogan isn't going to change anyone's opinion. Is isn't brainless moderates that are putting in the effort to publicly say "All Lives Matter", it's racists that know exactly what they are saying in order to shut down discussion. Anything slogan BLM used would get the same treatment and saying they should be more careful not to offend white people is silly. You're always going to offend the racists. You're not going to ever change their minds. But you need to pander to the morons in the middle. They knew what they were doing in the Civil Rights era, when they had Rosa Parks as their martyr, rather than Claudette Colvin. Messaging and optics matter. These people don't want to be racist, so you play on that. You have to sway the sheep with subtle manipulation. Remind them how "Smart" they are for not "falling for the lies." How "Good hearted" they are for "standing up for their fellow American" when black men are being systemically attacked. But if you startle them with hard self reflection, or straight hand them to the right with open hostility, you're going to lose.
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Nov 23, 2015 20:17
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stinkles1112 posted:could be better != is terrible, fyi I always thought "Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee" sounded a little too commie. Suggestions on better names?
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Nov 23, 2015 20:17
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Popular Thug Drink posted:#BlackSlogansMatter stinkles1112 posted:#AllSlogansMatter
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Nov 23, 2015 20:18
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Radish posted:I posted this last page. To be clear I don't think the slogan is, by far, the primary reason that the movement isn't resonating with moderates, but I think it is a facet, and that it's important to be aware of what works and what doesn't if you want to mount an effective protest.
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Nov 23, 2015 20:18
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foobardog posted:Pretty much. Feeling angry has short term benefits on mood, and so much of our conversations seem organized around contorting reality so you can be righteously angry. The only actual conservative I know enough to talk with is my dad and the only liberal he knows enough to talk to is me so long story short, my mother has banned political talk in the house. He does hate the Tea Party though 
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Nov 23, 2015 20:19
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:Thanksgiving is about conquest. We must stand alone, victorious. Thanksgiving is about being grateful to those that aid us even when we're being assholes.
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Nov 23, 2015 20:19
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i mean on the one hand there's a significant media apparatus which appeals to scared white people presented with a series of black protests without any defined spokespersons , an apparatus who can make endless hay from framing these protests as threatening, thus selling local advertising time to their core audience of crime-obsessed middle aged bedwetters and thereby turning a profit, but if only millenials had agreed to use a more explicit and clearly worded hashtag! alas
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Nov 23, 2015 20:21
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Talmonis posted:You're always going to offend the racists. You're not going to ever change their minds. But you need to pander to the morons in the middle. They knew what they were doing in the Civil Rights era, when they had Rosa Parks as their martyr, rather than Claudette Colvin. Messaging and optics matter. These people don't want to be racist, so you play on that. You have to sway the sheep with subtle manipulation. Remind them how "Smart" they are for not "falling for the lies." How "Good hearted" they are for "standing up for their fellow American" when black men are being systemically attacked. I think you are totally giving way too much credit to "moderates" in regards to racial issues. If someone is offended by "Black Lives Matter" because they think that is not inclusive or swayed by "All Lives Matter" since things are pretty much equal now and white people being murdered by police is as pervasive an issue as black people being killed by police than they aren't going to be swayed by a slightly more inclusive slogan than includes "too" at the end. http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/060.html Moderates that are more concerned with order than justice aren't worth counting on since they will side with order every time. stinkles1112 posted:To be clear I don't think the slogan is, by far, the primary reason that the movement isn't resonating with moderates, but I think it is a facet, and that it's important to be aware of what works and what doesn't if you want to mount an effective protest. To me that slogan is so far down on the list of things that even if there is some more effective one, it's really not worth the effort to think about, especially since it was community and created caught on naturally.
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Nov 23, 2015 20:22
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Yeah righteous indignation sure is fun but I'd prefer to see actual things be accomplished and to have actual progress happen. OTOH and don't get to say as many mean jokes about people if I actually care about persuading them, hmmmm.... what to do.....
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Nov 23, 2015 20:22
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stinkles1112 posted:To be clear I don't think the slogan is, by far, the primary reason that the movement isn't resonating with moderates, but I think it is a facet, and that it's important to be aware of what works and what doesn't if you want to mount an effective protest. i agree, the #1 way for black people to get out from under white oppression is to protest in ways that white people find comfortable and acceptable
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Nov 23, 2015 20:22
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