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Dead Reckoning posted:Your solution to this is, "screw it, let's just make explicit discrimination the law of the land instead."? Explicit discrimination is already the law of the land, though unofficially. Making sure people of color make it onto juries is the opposite of that. Are you against Affirmative Action? quote:You personally being a racist or not is immaterial to how bad and stupid your proposal is. If a south-east Asian immigrant is on trial for rape or honor killing, he gets to insist that his jury include members of his tribe, who no doubt better understand the struggles he's going through to maintain family honor in a godless western society? This would imply that every other member of the jury ignore the law and agree that, yes, honor killings are good. Remember that these juries are instructed to carry out the law, I'm not calling you a racist, but holy poo poo, in what universe does this end up with legal honor killings? If it doesn't, why can't South Asian Muslims be represented in a jury? quote:Leaving the hilarious unworkability aside, do you think there might be bad to abandon the idea that juries are supposed to be neutral finders of facts, rather than a vehicle for expressing citizen sentiment? Because that's what you're doing if you say that someone can't get a fair trial unless they have people from their group judging them. So white people are the only neutral individuals? We can't have other races, otherwise they might poison the well, let a black man rape a white woman due to their race? Or, OR!!! Maybe black members of society are more sympathetic with the idea of "Why was this person stopped in their car in the first place?" due to similar things happening to them, rather than a white person having very little experience of that saying "He had cocaine in his car anyway, what's the difference? He's a criminal." quote:This is literally what prosecutors have to do during a Batson challenge. I guess you're actually OK with the current system then? The whole point behind all this is that Batson doesn't really matter, prosecutors can make up any poo poo to take out black jurors. And the fact that you think people of color, specifically black and hispanic, being tried by all white juries is fair, then why are you so hesitant to make sure other black and hispanic people at least get representation? Isn't the whole idea that it's a jury of our peers? Hell, why don't we just make it illegal for the prosecutors to take out black jurors? The conservatives would freak the gently caress out, but they've already passed the initial interview showing that they are fit for jury. Despite the fact that it will never pass into law, honestly, what's the worst thing that could happen from that law?
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Nov 11, 2015 19:35
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Main Paineframe posted:Or are we going to create some independent outside body for the purpose of tracking the racial composition of prosecutors' peremptory strike usage? Is there some problem with this that I'm missing? Hell, if we can create the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, what stops us from creating a bureau specifically focusing on juries? What about the Bureau of Justice Statistics? They already exist, maybe they can start really, really studying how often prosecutors decide to dismiss black jurors. Put that percentage that they find in big Ariel Bold loving black letters. There's no such thing as separate but equal, so if there's a huge discrepancy, it's a civil rights issue. How is this not a civil rights issue? We're talking about systematic exclusion from a right guaranteed by the goddamn Bill of Rights. Jury of your peers. Trust me, black people don't want murderers on the streets. They don't want rapists. What stops us from actively preventing discrimination against black jurors? We don't have to have racial quotas. But if a person passes the initial interview, make it more difficult to take someone off the jury if they're a person of color. Make it so that there has to be a compelling interest in keeping this juror off the case. Make them write a goddamn essay if they want to. Worst case scenario, prosecutors won't go to the trouble, and maybe we'll have some more equal juries.
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Nov 11, 2015 21:13
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