Warhammer Code 30k: Hope Is The First Step On The Road To Disappointment

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BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Some of my top level thoughts on this- seems that there is an attempt to make the game less lethal and more dice intensive (IE: you don't know the outcome exactly when you engage one unit with another, because there are more ways to get rending/shred/sunder and experience attrition). AP1 and 2 is now very rare. Personally I don't like this, because I want shorter games. These changes would make much more sense if we had the new AP system imo.

I can only speculate about balance, but the changes to demo cannons imply worse AP values for battle cannons, artillery, and the like. How they plan to balance factions that rely on this for killing TEQ/MEQ such as militia and solar aux remains to be seen. Finally, if mauls are truly like this, "they will be everywhere" and I don't know why anyone would take a sword.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2022 19:25

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 13:49

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

I guess swords have rending? Certainly better than nothing, though a mace will probably be better

# ¿ Mar 11, 2022 08:08

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Count Thrashula posted:

Painting up some IW Saturnine pattern Tyrant Siege Termites because these models are just too ridiculous not to

holy poo poo

# ¿ Mar 14, 2022 05:50

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

quote this when there's no heresy news at adepticon

# ¿ Mar 21, 2022 21:19

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

you must draw line of sight from each stud

e: new mold tech?

BULBASAUR fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Mar 24, 2022

# ¿ Mar 24, 2022 05:17

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Some B&C dude posted:

Okay, so... Let me preface this by saying that I am in no way an photoshop expert. These are some very rough comparisons I was able to whip up once I realized that the mk vi marine has one of the skulls from the Box o' skulls pack. I tried to just do a real quick and dirty size comparison as best I can. I know it's not perfect and someone will assuredly make better comparisons soon The comparison are, in order, 1. A primaris reiver, 2. a plastic mk iv tactical, 3. a chaos space marine, 4. a Tortuga Bay Miniatures mk iii torso. I put the same skull on every base in roughly the same place to help try and get the size down right.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2022 07:56

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Another assessment over at B&C has the models as closer to chaos marine sized, which is in line with statements from the studio. So the creep is here, but its not as major as primaris.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2022 19:09

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Yeah, for me its more about what I do with my older stuff. Will the creep make a big difference or do I need to address it so things don't look wacky down the road.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2022 22:09

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

# ¿ Mar 25, 2022 01:13

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

My army fluff is that they have good looking armor and they always win

# ¿ Mar 26, 2022 23:25

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

So... new rules likely in May

# ¿ Mar 28, 2022 18:44

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Count Thrashula posted:

For what it's worth, here is the rumored release schedule:

Thanks for posting, but its likely a fake

# ¿ Mar 29, 2022 09:10

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Like any normal dude I abandoned all responsibilities to spend this week pouring over the new rules. I've digested probably 3/4s of the ruleset so I wanted to share how it feels this edition is shaping out to be. While these are playtest rules, they're latestage and likely not very different from what's being printed somewhere right now.

"A huge autist" posted:

I've been playing since Book 1. This new edition will feel familiar to longtime players, but underneath it's a major rework. What we have is closer to a new game than an incremental change. You can feel the influence of more recent specialist games with tighter, more deliberate rules, and less traps or erroneous wargear options. I'm sure everyone can find something they wish was different, but overall what I'm seeing is quite good and an exciting new direction for 30k.

The new game is much more mobile than before- most units can move longer distances, many significantly so. Simultaneously, there are less ways to scout, infiltrate, or outflank. Coming in from reserves is more reliable, more tactically interesting for both players, and also more concentrated- units come in as groups in an area rather than piecemeal across many turns. Assault from certain kinds of reserves is now possible, but can be countered by reactions or planning. Reactions give you an economy of actions to take during an opponents turn, keeping you engaged during the entire game. Fliers can even react to enemy fliers from off the table. All this combined, I think we're going to see a more interesting, dynamic, game. You're going to be planning your turn, how your opponent might react to you, and how you will react to them... and then half an army shows up somewhere else on the table on the second turn. Very cool.

New or existing special rules have been reworked to enable you to buff or debuff units, leading to new interesting interactions. For many of these new interactions there are wargear options that enable you to mitigate them, leading to new, very different, list building opportunities. Some legions lean more heavily into using these new mechanics, but everyone still has access to them. Regarding internal balance, there are some deliberate design choices that have given breathing room to underused wargear and units. Melta bombs, AP2, AP3, and large blast weapons are much more rare. Artillery, in particularly, is either gone or capped out at AP3. Opposite to this, there is now much more access to weapons with things like pinning(), shred(), rending(), or new similar mechanics. Giving special rules scales to how good they pin and rend further helps differentiate equipment. Weapon balance is the best its been with pretty clear niches for most weapons. Leadership has been knocked down a notch, many of the old wargear options are not as strong, and Sergents only bring a unit up to 8. Fearless is somehow even more rare, yet there are more situations where you'll need to test against leadership. Many infantry units now have two wounds with the 'mandatory' wargear options builtin or clearly presented to you. There seems to be a conscious effort to limit the number of trap choices presented to players and to reduce erroneous rolling- no more look out sir, for example, because you don't need it with how the new wound allocation system works. RoW, HQs, and legion abilities are generally less restrictive, but also less powerful.

Its impossible to update a game of this scope without something not working right or somebody getting disappointed. A few of the new rules, like defensive weapons, add granularity without a lot in return. This edition comes almost a decade after Book 1, so the influence of corporate GW is certainly here. While there are less trap choices, there are also less quirky interesting wargear options. Its a change of the times. If a unit doesn't have a model, you can expect it to be gone. Retiring physical models is not an easy pill to swallow- some units are entirely gone, others taken out from the legion book and placed into other army lists. We can only speculate if we'll see some return. Balance is also a double edged sword- the same deliberate design choices that are encouraging big units of infantry are also hurting others. Plasma is less effective, but it still costs a lot. Big powerful ordinance weapons find themselves in strange new niches, doing notably less hits, at notably worse AP, against cheaper, more numerous infantry with the ability to tank the damage better. Despite their best efforts, some habits die hard, so you can still look forward to finding some of that 'old' Forgeworld flavor in here- categorically overpriced plasma pistols, units left without a niche as other things changed around them, wargear options that interact with themselves in a way that nullifys the wargear you paid for, etc. These aren't many, but they're still here.

I get the feeling this new edition will open up favoring large diverse units of infantry and direct fire weapons. Infantry are more survivable than ever, and they're cheap. There's a big emphasis on attrition now, either through the importance of leadership or the multitude of mechanics that rend, shred, sunder, or breach their way past your armor saves. Battles should feel more like gritty slug fests where you're wearing down each other rather than removing models while standing around with a beer. With how reserves work, you'll see bigger more meaningful shifts to a battle once or twice a game instead of a harassment from enemy units deepstriking anywhere throughout the entire game. Reactions are also really important, so finding out when and how to use yours, with the army you build, will be a big part of figuring out the new game. 1500pts in the new edition feels closer to 1850 today. Combined with the completely new unit and equipment meta? We'll, its all very new and exciting.

1000 words to say, the rules look good folks

BULBASAUR fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Mar 31, 2022

# ¿ Mar 31, 2022 22:17

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Hard not to agree, its one of the worst parts about this coming from a Big English Corporation. That court case also blew the dam on 3rd party bits manufacturing. People made fun of them at the time, but in that respect chapterhouse did a big thing for the community by showing in court you could protect a bits company from predation by GW legal. Now with 3D printing they have no hope really.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2022 00:17

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

That lines up with the past rumors

# ¿ Apr 5, 2022 17:30

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Yvonmukluk posted:

So I found I got an old Burning of Prospero box lying around, and i was thinking of going Salamanders. Is there any specific loadout I should be going for the Tacticals/Tartaros Terminators? Or should I just wait until the new rules come out? Mostly I'm thinking the Sergeants.

I just checked and it they actually also tested the MkVI pre-heresy, so I figure it'd be OK to fold in the new stuff.

Artificer armor and a power fist is gonna make its way into many of your lists, but not every squad really needs it. Another good one is the vexilla- guy with flag is gonna make his way into most of your marine units

# ¿ May 2, 2022 09:18

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

I'll spare the wall of text explanation, but given the leaks we're looking at games being less lethal. Right now people avoid big rear end units of marines because somebody can take a 10" S10 AP1 blast template that will delete a big unit per turn. 2.0 is shaping up to be more of a direct fire edition so big infantry blobs are gonna be more viable than ever. At 3K points you also want multiple scoring options, even if you're taking 4 x10 man squads you're already up to 40 bodies.

Beerdeer posted:

I want to get an arquitor or two, because DG, but the rules look Bad.

In the leaks its the only artillery left in the legion list and its pretty decent!

# ¿ May 2, 2022 19:06

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Word. Its even worse in 2.0 where vehicle explosions are more lethal, you can't shoot out of the rhino, AND its multi melta is super spendy

# ¿ May 3, 2022 06:21

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Endman is gonna own all of us by having the right idea

Get ready to have all your month long theory crafting destroyed this weekend

# ¿ May 3, 2022 07:21

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Just to nip it on the bud before it hits on here- there are some pictures and notes from the box set rules going around. It is tough to decipher what might be an actual change in the rules vs completely ignoreable box set rules. Most likely the latter so don't put much into them.

Marshal Prolapse posted:

https://youtu.be/UpIfiqsSA8M

Is this a video of a guy reading a warhammer community article?

# ¿ May 10, 2022 02:13

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Those rulebooks look so nice and thicc. Next month? Plus heresy content every day? Super hard for heresy

# ¿ May 10, 2022 21:18

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 13:49

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Anecdotal, based on trailer views and sentiment online, buts its going to pull in a lot of new people. Hopefully most of them stick around.

There's also the usual mid-edition 40k burnout happening and 30k offers a tighter more chill ruleset.

# ¿ May 17, 2022 20:02

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Warhammer Code 30k: Hope Is The First Step On The Road To Disappointment

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