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Then there's the thing that meanwhile these things were pretty "ok" 10 or 25 years ago (and in some places, even now) we are now bankrupt. I'm quite sure your solution is to shoot the rich.
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Nov 10, 2015 23:06
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It's funny how so many posters can go into a panic -mode or become unhinged simply because someone posted something obvious (but in "bad taste" to say). Like, for example, that human smuggling is a risk free business compared to smuggling guns or drugs. "No! It can't be! gently caress you!" (Even though that is a fact anyone who reads any European news ever should be well aware of.) Or that the Swedish government has been completely ignorant of the World or just bullshitting, or both, about the capacity of Sweden to take in people. It's also interesting that Sweden is in the middle of a howling immigration crisis, and I don't think anyone can say honestly shrug it off as a mere conspiracy by devious "right-winger" or something passing anymore, but nobody talks about it. Economically (not counting other issues) the impact is similar to, like, 190k Swedes losing their jobs and then forgetting how to speak Swedish this year alone, if someone can't otherwise put into perspective what it means to receive 190k unemployed who don't speak any local language. That is not normal or regular behaviour from the citizens of any country. Of course, there are theories (many) Swedes blidnly trust the "state" will somehow take care of everything and the posters here represent that. But be as it may, it is both awesome and terrifying to behold. edit: and for the näsäviisas homo-poster who is typing "no that is not at all a good comparison" right now, yes I know it is very crude comparison, but that's only because a lot of people don't seem to grasp the impact of receiving hundreds of thousands of unemployed and possibly unemployable people into a welfare state, out of housing in that, in a few years time. And probably until the end of this decade or eternally, because there are literally - and for once I can use this word myself without pangs of guilt - there are literally millions of people waiting in camps ME and North Africa for their turn on the smuggler boat. Almost everyone understands that 10k Finns losing a job in some city is a horrible economic blow. But for some reason, they slot migrants into a different box: suddenly receiving whatever amount of unemployed migrants isn't an issue and the most worrying aspect of the whole thing is if "racists" might write blog posts that could paint asylum seekers in less than a good light, causing vihapuhe in some kahvila or on the news comments. So a crude comparison for crude people. And fnnngh, I have a sinking feeling what tax reliefs our companies received is not going towards growing their business in Finland... Ligur fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Nov 11, 2015 |
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Nov 11, 2015 15:22
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There is nothing going on.... dahhh... hurr... international laws and regulations... prevent everyong from doing... hurp... anything... *drools* *wakes up* RACISM!!!! NAZ... nazis... *sniffs glue, falls asleep* Yeha, it's a loving shame that sort of thinking and reactions have not been limited to certain D&D posters but government ministers and public officials. Now we're eating poo poo. Best thing is the redgreens loving love it, the more poo poo the better. That will show them wrong voters.
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Nov 11, 2015 21:43
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Oldsmobile posted:Great posting again Ligur! Thanks man. However, what points do you disagree on in my post, if anything, and why? Can you explain it in any manner? I don't think you of course, you will probably just think about the moon nazis who are ready to descend upon us and ruin your way of life. edit 1: Hob_Gadling posted:We know. Go tell it to the swedes. Also this is quite  if you are saying "we" contains the (majority of) posters in this thread. If it were so, it would paint all the screaming and whining about my posts in the last FinPol thread in a very strange light indeed, as I've been mostly saying the same things for the past four years. It would hence appear that "we" do not know. edit 2: And lol It should not be possible!!!1 Dey r escapunging teh deathe!!112 And goddamn that almost all of the "immigrant skeptics" knew 10 years ago what our Sisäministeri Orpo just figured out right now kun paska on ollut jo kourassa. Ligur fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Nov 11, 2015 |
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Nov 11, 2015 21:47
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DarkCrawler posted:International laws and regulations don't actually prevent you from doing border checks. They can be used to deny someone seeking asyulm if observed on the border, though. Which you won't probably know or will contest. But let's leave it to that. Rexroom posted:That's great news Ligur, but better not keep it here: I bet the scandipol would be a far better place to fully dissect that glorious event. Ahh, quite right... wait for a moment... hurr... *clicks keyboard*
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Nov 11, 2015 23:17
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DarkCrawler posted:Sweden isn't doing that, though. It's not even the first European country to utilize border checks, so I don't know what you're flipping about. This is actually positive to Finland, and organized registration and admittance of refugees is in itself a positive. It doesn't mean that Sweden is blocking anyone from applying to asylum in Sweden. I'm not flipping about anything  Or if I am, what exactly do you think it is? Indeed Sweden isn't blocking anyone from applying asylum, just from drifting through. Which is a good thing, and for me is the gist of it: that is exactly why border controls are good in this situation. If the Danes did the same, and the Germans the same and so on down the line the whole self-made crisis would be over in a month. Ligur fucked around with this message at 08:31 on Nov 12, 2015 |
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Nov 12, 2015 08:29
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Mulli posted:I agree Don't lie. It's naughty.
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Nov 12, 2015 10:15
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Oldsmobile posted:Sure. Biggest problem of course is that they're not doing that in the south, just either pushing people through or building fences and their resources are exhausted. Have been for years. Do not injure yourself. God will not approve.
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Nov 12, 2015 10:42
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doverhog posted:Just think of all the new markets border controls will create for human smuggling! Your business sense fails you. In a bad way. The whole business plan for the human smugglers has been that "there are border controls" - when there are not. They sell a dream, and convince people they have to pay this or that to get to the dream. There's stuff like smugglers selling expensive train tickets in god darn Malmö to the Finnish border because the comers don't know they don't even need the tickets (because they don't speak any local language so how could they check). The Swedish railways let them ride cheap if they wish so, but how could they know? The selling point for the time in the Middle-East is that "hay if u go to Germany, u will get nice house, job, blonde woman!" and how to make money out of it is then asking for anything between €500 to €15k in return for the trip and organizing one on some rickety boat or a suffocating truck. Most of the time, you could have just taken your own canoe if you dare the uneven oceans and paddle your rear end to Europe. Of course in that case drowning is a serious problem, so even if you know all of this you might want to dish some thousands for a safer ride anyway. But actual border control would kill the business save for a few specialists. Ligur fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Nov 12, 2015 |
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Nov 12, 2015 14:23
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DarkCrawler posted:Yes, and like said the outer borders will not be under control without Turkey/Middle East/Africa being given major concessions (since they would be the ones hosting even more refugees then they are now), also unpopular with the same countries that opposed the burden sharing. In addition you obviously need more money to patrol the ocean on both shores. It's going to cost either way, but the countries actually skirting their responsibilities are pretty much the same ones standing in the way of money being used towards a coherent response instead on an uncontrolled influx of people coming here. So Spain, France, Slovenia and Molvania are standing in the way of money being used to control EU borders, you are saying? They, like, sabotage any attempts to do so. The evil capitalist hitler plan of the Belgians is to un-control EU borders!!!12
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Nov 12, 2015 15:52
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kikkelivelho posted:The joint European response has so far been all talk and no action (as detailed here: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/11/eus-deep-dilemmas-over-refugees-laid-bare-at-malta-summit), and I dont see that changing anytime soon. Individual countries should just make an independent decision on what their response to this crisis is since no large plan seems to be forming. Hungary was right I guess. Sounds like EU, right. Everyone who is surprised, raise your hands on one... two... four... NOW! There are so many layers as to why EU will not do anything about the migrant issue I can't count them, but if anyone thought "dahh, deh EU will comes and handele thes krisis!" there must be a certain amount of naive braindeath involved. When stuff turns as bad as it is now, everyone, like Sweden, is own their own. And frankly that isn't wrong, if Sweden and Germany didn't, basically, invite all the non-EU citizens storming the walls right now the migrants would not be here in any case. It's simply unbelievable to me the rest of the EU has simply viewed the scenario, slack jawed, doing nothing apart from random shouts of warning up to now. Norway and Denmark have issued warnings towards Sweden but the Swedes gave a poo poo, I fear just for the purpose of keeping SD out of government and to "show off at those who voted wrong" or whatever. Now? They are whining for "taakanjako" when the limit everyone with a head, no matter how simple one of a head, could foresee. I guess it really needed for the problems they created to start flooding over other borders for anyone to react. Unfortunately the reactions are still on the level of "yikes, how did this happen!"
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Nov 12, 2015 16:11
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Ahh. I just had a plate with this Sir and he could not agree more with the opinions of BGH.
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Nov 12, 2015 21:37
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Dear Lord. We're in for at least three weeks of Islam is a religion of peace pieces and erikoisasiantuntija's explaining this has nothing to do with said religion. YLE and HS offices must on overdrive right now. When Charlie Hebdo happened someone at the YLE office leaked out the whole crew was running around being worried if it paints Muslims in a bad light, will this increase racism? The Paris thread is already full of people whining how all religions are equally bad. Which I will believe when there is a "Christian State of Heaven" destabilizing whole countires while torture-murdering children and robed guys with symbolic nails through their fists shooting up restaurants shouting "JESUS IS GREAT!" but there aren't. Sigh. Some even speculated "right-wingers" might be behind this. Seriously this sub-forum is a nest of lunatics indoctrinated by I don't even know what. Some kind of Cult of Political Correctness or some weird poo poo, what ever it is I don't like it as it makes people unthink, and unthink hard. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 14, 2015 07:25
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OgO posted:Muslims suffer the worst from extremist islam dipshit. OgO apparently did not read newspapers after Hebdo if he thinks I'm "paranoid", then it took less than a day for the first papers to publish columns directing the blame everywhere else but the obvious. After the "Islam is a religioun of piece" or something to that effect colums and lausunto's we will also get a social media and regular media full of self-righteous and condescending OgO's stating the obvious as some sort of a response. I intented to include stating the obvious in the last post but eventually forgot. Yes. Everyone knows Muslims suffer the worst of their own extremism. Shithead. That you think this is some kind of a "revelation" you need to dish to others (in indignant anger to boot) shows just how stupid you are yourself. This does not make it any more tolerable or ok that after Europe has naively opened it's borders to Muslim migration over the years they bring the Midde-East with them. edit: Hahahaha, Stubb apparently already said an "Allahu Akbar" cry or two shouldn't lead to conclusions, what did I say... DarkCrawler posted:
Quick, go find an international treaty that makes it a human right for people to shoot Europeans who have as an entity offended their religious sensibilities. Ligur fucked around with this message at 12:56 on Nov 14, 2015 |
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Nov 14, 2015 12:36
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DarkCrawler posted:Haha, you're such a butthurt little bitch it's amazing. The gently caress are you even talking about, actually who are you talking to and in response to what? edit: oh yeah the treaty thing, I was making fun of you and your furious spate of repeating the words "international law and treaty" some time ago, (several times per post, every post) when said laws and treaties actually supported an opposing view to yours, it was pretty comical Ligur fucked around with this message at 13:07 on Nov 14, 2015 |
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Nov 14, 2015 13:02
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120 people are dead yet it's all about Ligur being repeatedly and pathetically clowned in debates. I applaud your insane level of narcissism my god.
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DarkCrawler posted:Do you have amnesia or confusion? That's a question to you, not a response to anything, with what your general gist about how this is the fault of Islam. Does the fact that people aren't prevented from seeking asylum on the basis of their religion make you sad? Mad? So you ask me about things I never said and expect me to respond? You are going full blown retard again are you :\
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Nov 14, 2015 13:08
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DarkCrawler posted:You're going full blown something, I'm not sure what forgetting something you wrote minutes ago is called. After all the people who say this is not the fault of Islam are wrong according to you, so it's a perfectly valid question. Yes I posted that, mutta en näe miten postaukseni ja sinun möykkääminen ja "questions" are related in any meaningful way for me, so why bother answering. As for laws and treaties you ranted for several posts how they prevent us from stopping hordes of non-EU citizens without visas from rushing from country to country to seek asylum where they wish. Right? It's just that if said agreements were followed by all parties they would do exactly that. Stop the rushing. EU countries have just chosen to largely ignore their own agreements this far.
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Nov 14, 2015 13:50
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Fish of hemp posted:Hey Ligur, do you fancy a pint? I'm buying. I'm certain that our internet personas are just distilled essence of our real life personas, so I'm curious what kind of a whiny scared bitch you are in real life. Yeah I like beer why not, I'm usually free after work in the late evenings. Along the metro stops in Helsinki is easy to reach. Or you can come to one of my classes (friends and even "friends" can come for free once or twice) and we can have a pint after that when everyone is thirsty. I teach boxing and kickboxing on the side if that's your thing. Stopped rolling years ago tho. Too many accumulated injuries too quickly.
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Nov 14, 2015 16:44
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Yeah it's weird how they refuse to eat delicious mikäpiirakka with ananas and all other condiments.
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Nov 14, 2015 17:32
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Puistokemisti posted:EU preserved, I guess. It's craking. I don't think anyone wants this stuff to happen in their capital city, which it eventually will if this keeps up. Free movement is living out it's last days, unfortunately. I might be wrong but let's see in a year or two. My predictions have been too right for a while now  It's terrible certain people told "hey, this is what is going to go down, ok?" and nobody in power listened. Now it happened (again). Worst thing is that the natives figure out nobody cares and start reacting on their own :\
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Nov 14, 2015 18:35
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No voi vittu. Taasko? Mitä YLEllä on mua vastaan
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Nov 17, 2015 21:51
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Hey Finns, if having an identity is harmful and equates opposing people with other identities, having read newspapers this week much to my detriment, is the Hitler-Satan why: What is the point of having a country at all? Why have a flag? Why have national history? Why have a national anthem? Why vote? Why pay taxes? If borders are meaningless then why have them?
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Nov 19, 2015 13:55
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HUMAN FISH posted:having a country leads to nationalism, which is problematic Why is it problematic? That said you mean there should be no countries at all, right.
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Nov 19, 2015 14:08
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SnowblindFatal posted:Yeah that's the end goal. However, the path to reaching it is not an easy one and requires less dramatic welfare disparity between world's nations. Ahh the creation of the NEW MAN. Men will forget their language, their origins, their history, everything, and by re-education by the socialist state become THE NEXT HUMAN BE- Like really. Is that your goal and do you think most of the world would be like "hey, yeah". HUMAN FISH posted:Nationalism is just another word for fascism Because of D&D, can't say if serious or just D&D.
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Nov 19, 2015 14:13
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SnowblindFatal posted:That is a short-sighted attitude. I don't think most people give a poo poo about what their ancestors held important. You don't? But don't you at least identify with them in some sense.
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Nov 19, 2015 14:56
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MONGOLS (if you gon' probate me for this check out the other posts with not-that-much-input)
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Nov 19, 2015 15:52
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They expanded like crazy "lol from 150 to 600 in a year haahaahaa" and even tried recruiting some of my friends. They were like, nah. Everyone who was in the early 2000s crash knew what was going to be up.
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Nov 20, 2015 20:37
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So who else votes LA? Also, do you feel "victimised" or perhaps oppressed.
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Nov 22, 2015 12:34
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 D&D dot picture.
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Nov 22, 2015 13:36
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It appears the crisis meeting wasn't about the suspected Kempele case, but rather a continuum of several cases and repeat instances of various disturbances. Especially harassment of girls/women. The scary/stupid/weird thing is it seems the police say there is a political will to keep it quiet, which certainly doesn't make the citizens any more trusting or happy. Like the Jumbo case? Our brave and noble journalists (who vote either Green or liberal wing of Cock) want to have none of it and insist on calling this exaggeration... but if the police says it's not. Let's say I know who I'll trust more. The ministry of interior already magicked up an explanation about syrjäytyminen but come on, bitches. That is REAL fast syrjäytyminen. For a rational person, knowing that in a place like Afghanistan unveiled young women moving alone are free for all would be a more likely cause. Which is incidentally the case in much of Iraq or Somalia. There the victim is also the culprit. Rape isn't even a crime, especially of lone unprotected women. How could anyone aware of any of these local conditions think that moving young men from there, to here, somewhere like Finland, would not result in the worst of trouble?
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Nov 24, 2015 19:45
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Wheany posted:It will be something stupid like this. Making Big Decisions and making a big show of it, then a week later Sipilä will hear that it's impossible/it's against the constitution/there are huge protests and will back down. No, it won't be anything like that, whatever it will be. My best guess is the crisis meeting was to soothe the prime mininster because he found out the stupid policies we run can actually also affect the political elite, if not quite directly, and when he calms down it's back to the same old. There might be some pompous announcements like "we are aware the centers have become areas of trouble but international agreements.... solidarity... can't blame individuals... more of the same, then!" is the solution. I hope I'm wrong but this far? It's always been that. No reason to believe it will change unless Sipilä is really touched personally. Antti posted:You still run into non-refoulement problems if they're from a shithole like Somalia or Afghanistan. It just means they have no legal status whatsoever, which I'm sure will not lead into more crimes being committed by them. You're still not allowed to drop a murderer or rapist into an active war zone by international treaties. It's just that if you refuse a person residence permit on the basis of asylum seeking, even after he has commited crimes, it is far off from paradropping a person into an active warzone (which I think would be ok if someone abuses the asylum seeking system to commit crimes, but that's another case entirely). It isn't like outside of the EU is Fallout: Rest of the World or a Vietnam army bases during the Tet Offensive. It isn't. That's the argument threads like ScandiPol and "certain" people here make because they want to justify their preferred policy with that but like hell it has anything to do with the real world. South Iraq is safe in as such you have frequent flights, businesses running, not much in the way of shootings or bombings, so is most of Somalia, Afghanistan has plenty of safe areas and so on. If Joensuu turned into a hellhole of unemployment and gangs started terrorizing the area, no sane person would think of moving the people there to Sweden as a solution. You would move them to a safer part of Finland and try to fix Joensuu. Nobody would argue that. (Also the conflict in, say, in Iraq, is mostly internal, they should solve it over there with other Iraqis.) The crisis areas are surrounded by vast camps, and I'm pretty sure the billions Sweden and Finland will spend on catering to asylum seekers (who have come here with all sorts of wrong information and who, are, actually completely unknown) would do far more over there than over here. And of course, you can return a person to the safe country they came from if you follow the current agreements (which nobody does). We can also construct camps to the outskirts of EU area. There are unlimited different possibilities of handling the situation instead of 1) having them choose where to seek asylum and suffering the consequences 2) parachuting them to the active combat areas in the Middle-East. edit: A a link for those who still think returning to Iraq is the equivalent of being hurled unto a battlefield. This doesn't appear to be the case at all. The arrivals have been fed a bunch of lies about how sweet life would be here if you just ask for asylum and being treated like an actual asylum seeker comes as a shock and disappoints. This chick for one basically admits that she came here to pull our leg. She is a regular immigrant and directly admits to that, not an asylum seeker under terrible personal danger in the ditches because of political convictions or whatever. She just wanted to finish her studies. Which is ok, but she is also abusing a system created for other things. And TF hitler racist nazis get their say. Can we deport them???!!11 And Canada has a reasonable view to things. Will Canada now disappear down a black hole as their international reputation is forever gone?
Ligur fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Nov 24, 2015 |
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Nov 24, 2015 20:58
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Jerry Cotton posted:Remember when Ligur voted for the literally national socialist nazi foreign-hater party? Troll or not, it escapes me how that has to do with anything that has happened as of late or what I have ever posted about Unless you think literally literals provoke rapes or that the idea was to have Sipilä and Orpo flailing around, which it wasn't.
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Nov 24, 2015 22:29
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I think that person is drunk.
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Nov 24, 2015 22:47
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Which is better: a gub'mint that do no nuthing a gub'mint that are about to do something, but then do no nuthing A mystery :\
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Nov 24, 2015 23:29
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Oldsmobile posted:And this whole rape incident. What the hell? I don't know what Sipilä intended this to look like, but it totally looks like refugees, probably immigrants and broadly anyone who looks like one can now be legitimately treated as a group and judged based on the actions of individuals in that group. Stop being paranoid, it was about a long chain of events that culminated on to this. Like they said on a press release or two. And however it plays out, the crisis meeting was probably to soothe the mind of Sipilä and especially to soothe any tensions to which you refer to, not doing anything being the worst option at this point. I'm fully aware some posters in the thread might not comprehend the following, as they might believe TF is some sort of a stürmer army hell bent on violent combat against foreigners, but it was the opposite: 4 out of 5 people who voted TF last time, or something like that, yet would not do so right now, told they have become desperate (and TF votes halved) because they feel they have no options left and no democratic parliamentary choices. The guy who throw that bottle of flaming liquid in the empty side of the house with a refugee center in some other wing? That was his motive too as he told it. TF did not create these people, it was an outlet for them as a voter, instead of extraparliamentary actions, and now that it seems it doesn't matter if they are in the government or not, I'm afraid this might not end well. Especially when and if kempele -incidents continue, or explode, now, or later, when all these 20 something guys get the residence permits (which most of them will, over time). After that, why people like Oldsmobile think that having a crisis meeting after repeat problems with asylum centers justifies and legitimizes treating foreing people or those who "broadly look like one" as something (whatever he means), based on individuals only, is a mystery. Or if that is any different than making sweeping generalizations about guys wearing bad kkk cosplay hats... Oldsmobile will probably have to explain that part for himself? Ligur fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Nov 25, 2015 |
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Nov 24, 2015 23:56
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Jerry, you can also literally stop using the "literal" several times on your one liners. That doesn't rile me up in any manner, even though it's the forums favourite word, but it fails to troll me in any way. It's just funny when people keep repeating it while being all so serious.
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Nov 25, 2015 20:56
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Nenonen posted:Police have released one of the Kempele rape suspects as unrelated to the case. The other underage suspect denies involvement. I hope Sipilä still sends them back to Africa or wherever, it must be safer there after Finnish police, media and politicians made all Afghans guilty of raping children. It might not have happened at all, but just as a reminder, most rapists don't actually confess to the act at once. Hell there's a mile long list of convicted rapists in Finland and Sweden who maintained they have had nothing to do with the case even when their DNA was found on the pants or orifices of the victim in just recent years. (Some of the victims dead, for example, and last seen with the perp.) Your deduction that this somehow makes all Afghans guilty of childrape is Pirjo Pönni Jokinen level though, and hilarious. Ha ha! Crazy poo poo, man, all the more sad if you believe it....
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Nov 25, 2015 22:48
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Whatever, the Greens and Cock are basically the same party. Greens just pretened to be more "liberal" but in the end there is no difference.
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Nov 27, 2015 10:27
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Hogge Wild posted:http://www.iltasanomat.fi/kotimaa/art-1448591077262.html No.... no... they are escaping teh DEATH!!!1 We must provide for these folks. If you suggest otherwise u r the hitlarrrrr.
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Nov 27, 2015 11:43
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We don't actually need false false false flags about crazy kukkahattu täti's as long as we have guys like Rexroom and Nenonen on the media and social media, posting their opinions.
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Nov 27, 2015 13:55
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