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CharlestheHammer posted:He wanted to wait until a perfect solution to present itself. Which is usual how things go so I can't blame em. That was so frustrating, and his idiotic "we'll come up with something, we always do!" didn't make any sense when he was standing in front of all the people who usually come up with something, and they're all shaking their head. And then he spends the rest of existence harassing the Illuminati and trying to stop them from trying to save the world, even after the ominous premonition that he would be on the wrong side and preventing them from finding a solution. I mean, you KNOW the entire universe is ending--is it that important, in your last months on earth, for you to waste all your time hunting your old friends who might actually be able to stop it?
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Dec 1, 2015 13:42
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Pieces of Peace posted:It always does. It's kinda disingenuous to think Cap should act like he's not in a comic book universe. There's always a threat to the nation/world/galaxy/universe/timeline/all conceivable potential reality that could ever exist, and something always comes up. Rogers accepting that is perfectly logical, and the writers trying to skew it so he was wrong were about as believable as the crap Millar wrote to try to make Tony seem like he wasn't being an uncharacteristic rear end in a top hat in Civil War. Maybe I'm the guy it was aimed at, because I hadn't read anything Marvel in a decade until Hickman Avengers, and I was on Team Illuminati hardcore. And no, "the Illuminati" aren't the something that comes up to fix things, but it's definitely Iron Man or Dr. Strange or Reed Richards a lot of the time. If all of the smartest intellects on the planet and the Sorceror Supreme are saying they have no idea how to fix things and they might need to blow up some planets to buy time, what is the "something else" that's gonna happen? Especially because nothing ever DID show up -- Cap had to know there had been multiple incursions the whole time he was figuring things out and then hunting them down, and so he was defeating the purpose of blowing up the planets in the first place, because Reed Richards and T'Challa and Tony Stark didn't get to sit and obsess over it in a fully-equipped lab all day. It's not even like he got all the nations of the world working on the solution, he just kinda ignored it to get in a pissing match with Tony. I dunno, it seemed like a really forced personality -- maybe he'd be angry, but not sheer world-endingly illogical about it. Phenotype fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Dec 3, 2015 |
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Dec 3, 2015 03:37
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Pieces of Peace posted:The entire moral choice came across as contrived due to the history of the medium, though. It wasn't out of character for Tony or Reed or Namor or any of the other assholes to think there was no choice but the Grim Real Decision, but it was out of character for the Marvel universe (or 616 if you want to get picky) to convey any agreement with them. There are fifty years of comics in this setting where Earths did not have to be blown up in order to solve the crisis. Again, I haven't read hardly any Marvel since I was in high school, and it seems kinda shallow to base your arguments on "the world's been ending every other day for the last fifty years, get over it." Especially since it WOULD have ended, several times over, and the only solution was for the Illuminati to blow up planets and work as hard as they could to come to an answer. Like, what else did Cap expect to happen? "We've got the world's greatest minds working on a solution, and we still haven't found one, and now there's a world-ending event that we only have one answer for, and we need more time. Oh, and it's already happened twice before you even got here. Do you have any magic friends that you can call that we haven't heard of?" Even if they never figured out how to stop the incursions, I still wonder what would have happened if they'd stopped fighting eachother and blew the poo poo out of the Ultimates Earth so there'd be nothing left to collide with. And as long as you're bringing up the Hickman Fantastic Four, I thought that seemed more out of place and unbelievable as a solution than Grim Decisions for the Avengers. Oh, hey, we just needed to get Franklin to solve it. Franklin can solve anything! Phenotype fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Dec 3, 2015 |
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Dec 3, 2015 04:11
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That's silly. They would save the lives of everyone in their universe by killing trillions, and they only do it a couple minutes before those trillions (and more!) would have died anyway. That's the entire point -- it's a grim and difficult decision, and Cap's response was ridiculously one-dimensional. "I can't have a part in this" would have made more sense than "I will stop you from trying to find a solution".
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Dec 3, 2015 04:50
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Boogaleeboo posted:That is more traditional than recent, as most of the current Illuminati has been in involved in colossal gently caress ups. Iron Man has like 4 of them in the past decade alone. They aren't the guys that solve problems anymore, they are the guys that probably caused them in the first place. They are poo poo people and they don't have the moral authority to order around a toddler. I mean it's a tossup if Beast or Tony are the biggest assholes in the current Illuminati, and that's loving impressive on a team that has Namor and Reed Richards on it. The fact of the matter is the world would be an objectively better place if they all just died. You're gonna have to help me here, because again, I've barely read anything Marvel in the last ten years -- what have Reed, Tony, and Strange hosed up recently? I know Tony is an rear end in a top hat, but what else has he done besides build Ultron? Also, lol at Beast on that list of biggest assholes -- what on earth has he been up to in the last few years? My head canon Beast is still the one from the 90s cartoon, the furry scientist who talks like Fraser Crane.
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Dec 3, 2015 17:22
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