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Albu-quirky Guy posted:See also: why did Max have the dream of the hurricane destroying Arcadia Bay at the start of the game? If in the end she chooses to do nothing, the hurricane never happens, but the events of her photography class up until Chloe gets killed would be the same. Technically nothing goes wrong with time up until Max saves Chloe, and we already got the hurricane vision at the end of Monday, so why the dream during class?
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May 16, 2016 04:53
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I'm dying and this lp killed me Couldn't there have been a third option for the people who actually did try to save everyone? Like if all the save-able people were saved then you could pile everyone into frank's RV and ride off into the sunset, or just evacuate the town early or something I don't know I guess the writers were set on having a morally ambiguous ending. I picked Sacrifice Chloe because we were willing to kill her in the previous timeline to prevent the suffering of others. I can respect the alternate option though because gently caress time railroading Guess Super Max wasn't so super after all.
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May 16, 2016 06:31
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It seems as though one of the major forces in the game's plot is the immutability of time, or fate. Some people mentioned earlier that either of the game's final choices invalidate all the choices you've made through the game, but you could argue that the game (and the choices therein) up to that point exist to give greater context to the final choice. Having inevitability itself turn out be more or less be an antagonizing force is frustrating, and feels rather arbitrary, but I suppose it exists out of necessity to offset Max's abilities. Again, the reasoning and logic behind 'Chloe alive = catastrophe' is nebulous and insane, but some sort of rules that Max can't bend have to exist, I guess. Even in the ending when we sacrifice the entire bay, by the game's own logic Chloe will be in a never-ending cycle of peril. Just wait until that peril manifests itself as a stroke or heart attack or any of another million things that can't be unwound, and it'll all be for nothing. Again, the necessity of Chloe's demise makes for decent drama, it's just a shame that the rules seem so arbitrarily slapped on to that one particular outcome.
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May 16, 2016 06:44
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McKilligan posted:Even in the ending when we sacrifice the entire bay, by the game's own logic Chloe will be in a never-ending cycle of peril. Just wait until that peril manifests itself as a stroke or heart attack or any of another million things that can't be unwound, and it'll all be for nothing Life is Strange season 2: "So Max I was thinking maybe Chinese food for dinn-" *Chloe falls to the ground, dead immediately* *Max sighs, rewinds* "Chloe hold that thought I need to go fetch our defibrillator"
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May 16, 2016 06:53
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Clearly the sequel will deal with the dark legacy of the Dread Warlock Sean Prescott.
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May 16, 2016 07:10
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TwoPair posted:Life is Strange season 2: At the end, a nearby star goes supernova, sterilizing Earth with a gamma ray burst.
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May 16, 2016 07:17
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I like Captain Nuke's explanation of plot the best. In that the story is not really about time travel but about a girl learning that she has to be more assertive because she can't change the past the only difficulty I have is that you can choose not to sacrifice Chloe. Otherwise the plot would make sense as magical realism. Perhaps the true timeline is that Max witnessed Chloe's death and then has a bit of a psychological break, the whole life is strange could actually just be Max's own mental break down as she tries to cope with the loss of her friend and the fact she didn't do anything to stop it.
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May 16, 2016 07:47
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That's the good part: really, the only point this story could have had is that time rewinding powers ultimately don't solve anything. I'm mostly objecting to the way they decide to present it in.
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May 16, 2016 08:28
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Lessail posted:I haven't watched the current episode yet, but I figure all those apocalypse events are happening because Max saved Chloe in the very beginning and the climactic choice is gonna be whether to die in the tornado with her or go back in time and let her be shot. It's a very time travel plot thing to do and I hope it doesn't happen Close but whelp they went and did it. That sucks.
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May 16, 2016 09:02
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Albu-quirky Guy posted:See also: why did Max have the dream of the hurricane destroying Arcadia Bay at the start of the game? If in the end she chooses to do nothing, the hurricane never happens, but the events of her photography class up until Chloe gets killed would be the same. Technically nothing goes wrong with time up until Max saves Chloe, and we already got the hurricane vision at the end of Monday, so why the dream during class? I take it the vision is part of "we are already in the time loop." It's also a neat hook to get you started and the second time thru the game. I interpret the storm as caused by a literal butterfly effect (This effect grants the power to cause a hurricane in Arcadia Bay to a butterfly flapping its wings in also Arcadia Bay I guess). In the ending we saw it escape the window, in the beginning, we didn't see it after the photo. Perhaps it was captured in the toilets? It's a very technical possibility if you take the butterfly effect too literal. Could also vaguely explain the snow and whales (something weathery happened because of the butterfly), but not the two moons.
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May 16, 2016 09:13
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Rewatched the relevant part of the first episode and Max decides to save Chloe before she even knows who she is. Lesson of the game is to never try to save anyone if you have time travel powers because no matter what it'll be seen in the worst light and cause the end of the world
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May 16, 2016 09:32
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Lessail posted:Rewatched the relevant part of the first episode and Max decides to save Chloe before she even knows who she is. Lesson of the game is to never try to save anyone if you have time travel powers because no matter what it'll be seen in the worst light and cause the end of the world I think we all learned that already from "City On The Edge of Forever", really.
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May 16, 2016 11:16
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Actually letting Arcadia Bay be destroyed is good.
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May 16, 2016 11:31
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The ending is what I expected, but I can't imagine the game ending any other way. It would have been interesting if the game deprived you of the last choice and instead decided which ending played based on Max's choices for the past week. It also would also be nice if we got a slightly longer "Sacrifice Arcardia Bay" ending, but if resources were scarce I am glad they focused on the other ending.
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May 16, 2016 11:50
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Oxxidation posted:Lots o' words Wow, there's pretty much all my thoughts on this ending, put better than I could. The purpose of this story was always Max's development to me, of her given power and coming to terms with the consequences of using it, so to me, both endings are good, because they are both a different way to interpret accepting the consequences of our actions. In one ending, she acquiesces to the wishes of her best friend to save her mother and the town, accepting her death as a result of her own actions, and in the other, Max takes responsibility herself by resolving not to time-travel, accepting the destruction the wanton use of her power caused. Both of them are definitive, and neither of them feel great (the former is certain tragedy, and the latter is the perusal of an uncertain future), and both feel like the natural consequence of Max's choices. The complaint of Max's choices "not mattering", therefore, seems strange to me, because Max remembers her choices and their consequences, because this is Max's story.
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May 16, 2016 13:26
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ZiegeDame posted:Clearly the sequel will deal with the dark legacy of the Dread Warlock Sean Prescott. "What is a Max? A miserable little pile of selfies! But enough talk, have at you!"
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May 16, 2016 14:39
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I just noticed something from the photos shown when you decide to sacrifice Chloe, we see Max with some photos, it could just be her reminiscing, but I think it could be her trying to see if she still has time travel powers. I also wish to add to the growing feeling that the tornado was caused by Saving Chloe as kinda bullshit, throughout the whole game I was saying to myself "it can't just be that, there has to be a better explanation, there has to be more to it than that" but no, some malevolent deity just REALLY wants a specific teenager dead. Also I don't really buy the whole "they ran out of money so they had to give us poor endings", first of all aren't episodic games supposed to be, if not immune, at least well protected against such things? Second it must have been REALLY poor planning for them have to rush the endings. If they had focused on the endings, THEN made the nightmare scenes they would have been able to make a pair of good endings, and all that would be lost would be a few setpieces, because, let's be honest, any of the scenes could have been cut and there would have been minimal difference if any.
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May 16, 2016 14:58
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xelada posted:Also I don't really buy the whole "they ran out of money so they had to give us poor endings", first of all aren't episodic games supposed to be, if not immune, at least well protected against such things? No. Why would they be?
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May 16, 2016 15:04
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What a wonderful, uplifting start to my day. I'm fine, doing just fine. The sun is shining and fuuuuuuck me I'm wrecked
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May 16, 2016 15:31
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xelada posted:I just noticed something from the photos shown when you decide to sacrifice Chloe, we see Max with some photos, it could just be her reminiscing, but I think it could be her trying to see if she still has time travel powers. I see it less as a malevolent deity and more as time-space bugging out after getting an exception.
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May 16, 2016 15:49
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xelada posted:I also wish to add to the growing feeling that the tornado was caused by Saving Chloe as kinda bullshit, throughout the whole game I was saying to myself "it can't just be that, there has to be a better explanation, there has to be more to it than that" but no, some malevolent deity just REALLY wants a specific teenager dead. I seriously don't believe that fate, or the universe, or God, or whatever, specifically wants Chloe dead, and if it doesn't get it, it's gonna throw a super-tornado sized tantrum. If fate was actually out to get her, I'm sure it could do a much better job of it, but in the game all of Chloe's potential deaths are at least partly self-inflicted: She shoots herself, via ricochet; She lays down on the railway tracks; alt-Chloe asks Max to kill her; and she is lead into a trap in the Junkyard by Jefferson. None of that requires fate to be out to get her. And then when Chloe does end up dead, shot by Jefferson, that does not stop the storm from coming. If Chloe's death is all that "fate" is bothered about, why does the tornado still happen? - Chloe getting shot in the bathroom is what reveals Max's powers to her, and leads directly to dozens of other changes to the timeline that she makes, large and small. If it had been the only change, then I don't think the storm would happen, or it would be considerably smaller. Or if the initial triggering event had been something else (maybe seeing Kate jump off the roof on Tuesday?), then that would be the change Max would have to prevent to stop the tornado. Well, that's my interpretation, at least.
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May 16, 2016 16:48
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Oxxidation posted:No. Why would they be? They get some of the money they will/would make from sales while it is in production, making an effectively larger budget, it also gives data on things like popularity and what to focus on, or not focus on for that matter, allowing for more streamlined production (if it does well they can tart up bits, if it isn't doing so well they can cut extraneous bits). They to reap all the advantages making a sequel brings, without quite as many of the pitfalls. Maybe their plans when it came to how much each installment would cost to make where off, maybe the expect amount of money they would make as they where making it was off, or maybe they just didn't plan enough leeway/flexibility, I have no idea, I'm not dontnod. And honestly "ran out of money" always feels like a cop out to me, very often it's actually "we aren't good at planning". Or maybe I'm just talking out of my rear; I could have sworn I remember it being mentioned as one of the advantages in some article I once read, and it seems to me like it should work that way; but I'm some random person on the internet, and I may just have poor logic and bad memory.
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May 16, 2016 17:02
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So the end of Life is Strange happened. And a lot of people were really pissed off (Seriously, the Games thread at the time was solid gold if you want to dig it up). I on the other hand was super pleased with the ending. The game is essentially a teenage power fantasy. While some power fantasies revolve around being able to murder and kill, shrug off bullets, and generally be a badass, this games power fantasy revolves around being able to do the right thing at all times. Max goes from a shut in, with almost no friends, no one texting her, estranged from her childhood best friend to a super cool, loved, popular girl basically overnight all because of her time powers. But guess what, it can't always end well, no matter how hard you try you can't always do or say the right thing, it's impossible. Chloe, or the town have to die, there is nothing you can do. The entire game has hinted towards this, a lot of graffiti alludes to death, and wanting to die. Also Chloe continually being put into situations of death and danger allude to this as well. I'm actually really glad the game does not explain Max's powers. In fact, in the ending we got it's not even entirely clear if she ever had them to begin with. The biggest problem I have is honestly that they gave the player agency at all in the end. The game is about fate and life ultimately being out of your control, and to force the player to choose between two fates out of their control generally diminish that message.
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May 16, 2016 17:19
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Surprise Pizza posted:interesting interpretation You see that is also kinda the problem, no information or explanation about the strange meteorological (/ supernatural) effects means that all we have to go on is vague conjecture from characters and players, a game (or any other media) doesn't have to explain everything but if it doesn't even attempt to explain anything, the reason may as well be "because I said so" after all, if no good reason can be found, what evidence do we have one actually exists. That said, there probably was a good explanation that was imagined when the game was being made, at least, I hope so.
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May 16, 2016 17:34
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I believe that the LiS universe is sentient and a petty rear end in a top hat. It gave Max her powers expecting her to be the same and then became increasingly annoyed at her generally doing nice things with them instead so caused the escalating disasters to try and goad her onwards before giving up. Oh you saved your friend... but she became an accomplice! That's fine, you don't have to work alone for this... Yes, spill that paint! Get Victoria, get her! That's the way! Come on dunk that nerd! Oh, um, ok. Or not. You're biding your time, I get that. Still I'd better break this up with some snow... Max I don't think this is working out very well, you're mostly helping people. Dream bigger! Eclipse, weird huh? Come on, try and mess with people, it's fun! Time to up the stakes I think: Dead whales! Oh... you're upset. Hmmm, ok. Yes that's right! Screw with Frank, mess with his beans! Oh you know what, screw this; this isn't working at all. Time to summon the hurricane... Basically it turns out the thread was right and the happy ending is unlocked by dunking Warren all the time.
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May 16, 2016 20:06
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You get to destroy an entire town of hets to save the girlf
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May 16, 2016 20:09
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code:
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May 16, 2016 20:12
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Story was good, LP was good, thank you Panzer Skank.
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May 16, 2016 20:58
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The couple things I don't understand because they weren't presented or followed up on (and hopefully explained in a bonus video?) are what actually constitutes a game over? Does the game just more or less say 'YOU DONE hosed UP" and force you to rewind time? I assume since everything eventually railroads you to this one binary choice you can't. for instance, let Chloe shoot herself in the graveyard or die to frank or anything. And secondly, obviously the museum segment is supposed to pound in the railroad spike of "yes they really love each other" even if you as the player are a dense motherfucker, but what if you were generally a dick to Chloe the entire game (and even of bad enough decision maker to kiss warren) but made the right choices to keep her alive? I assume the museum dream is very different, correct? I guess since it has been established that these are the only 2 endings, someone intentionally obtuse and/or not buying into the love plot is just going to go for the sacrifice chloe ending, oh well. I think what I take away from this is it's a good idea but the illusion of choice is very unsatisfying but making a game that allows the player more freedom within the game's established rules would be prohibitively expensive in both development time and financial resources. Edit: Oh yeah good LP of a questionably good game. Thanks Panzer.
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May 16, 2016 21:15
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Here's my pitch for Life is Strange 2: you play as someone who becomes immortal who at the start is jazzed about it but through the eons learns that they just want to die
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May 16, 2016 21:27
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Grizlor posted:The couple things I don't understand because they weren't presented or followed up on (and hopefully explained in a bonus video?) are what actually constitutes a game over? Does the game just more or less say 'YOU DONE hosed UP" and force you to rewind time? I assume since everything eventually railroads you to this one binary choice you can't. for instance, let Chloe shoot herself in the graveyard or die to frank or anything. At certain points, if you don't do things quickly enough or in the right way, time will freeze, the screen will turn black and white, and Max will say something like "Oh no, I need to rewind!" At that point, you have no other options but to rewind and try again. quote:And secondly, obviously the museum segment is supposed to pound in the railroad spike of "yes they really love each other" even if you as the player are a dense motherfucker, but what if you were generally a dick to Chloe the entire game (and even of bad enough decision maker to kiss warren) but made the right choices to keep her alive? I assume the museum dream is very different, correct? The game does at least leave it a little up to the player's choice and interpretation exactly what the relationship is between Max and Chloe. It could just be a strong childhood friendship rekindled through a series of intense emotional events, or as in this LP, suggest a more romantic interpretation. Either way, the game is pretty clear that Max cares deeply for Chloe, and it would take a fairly dense player to miss that. Even if you side against Chloe at various points, Max never has a "Oh, gently caress you Chloe, who gives a poo poo?" sort of attitude. The "museum" doesn't change that much, because most of the moments in it aren't defined by your choices - the only one I can think of it the kiss. Of course, just because Max cares about Chloe, doesn't mean the player is going to, but I doubt that there's a relationship written in any media that 100% of people will buy into totally. The same point could be made for the other ending. If the player decides they care about Chloe, but that Arcadia Bay is a stupid town filled with assholes, they're not going to feel much regret about choosing the "Sacrifice Arcadia Bay" ending. Personally, by the end of the game I cared deeply for Chloe, and was fully on-board the "Pricefield" train, but I couldn't just let the whole town be destroyed. I chose the "Sacrifice Chloe" option, and it was pretty loving heartbreaking.
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May 17, 2016 00:22
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Grizlor posted:And secondly, obviously the museum segment is supposed to pound in the railroad spike of "yes they really love each other" even if you as the player are a dense motherfucker, but what if you were generally a dick to Chloe the entire game (and even of bad enough decision maker to kiss warren) but made the right choices to keep her alive? I assume the museum dream is very different, correct? You can also avoid kissing Chloe by consistently siding against her throughout the game- not taking the blame for the joint, not letting her steal the money etc. If you're mean to both Chloe and Warren on the same playthrough then Max doesn't get to kiss anyone before the world ends. A tragedy, to be sure.
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May 17, 2016 01:02
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One thing that bugged was what happened with William and Chole. There was a way out of that one but Max wasn't thinking hard enough. Max could gone back again and warned William not to buy a new truck for his daughter. I do get it though that these kind of stories don't work that way and the message it's sending. Yeah I'm sure if she kept pushing it things would go full Silent Hill but I'd rather we see that reality itself rejects reviving the dead compared to the message that everything happens for a reason and it's all part of fate that can't be changed. Paul Zuvella posted:The game is essentially a teenage power fantasy. While some power fantasies revolve around being able to murder and kill, shrug off bullets, and generally be a badass, this games power fantasy revolves around being able to do the right thing at all times. Max goes from a shut in, with almost no friends, no one texting her, estranged from her childhood best friend to a super cool, loved, popular girl basically overnight all because of her time powers. But guess what, it can't always end well, no matter how hard you try you can't always do or say the right thing, it's impossible. Chloe, or the town have to die, there is nothing you can do. The entire game has hinted towards this, a lot of graffiti alludes to death, and wanting to die. Also Chloe continually being put into situations of death and danger allude to this as well. This really makes sense and I finally understand why Max was behaving the way she was.There's the problem for me imagining what I would do that kind of power vs what Max does. It literally made little sense to me. I viewed Max as really just wanting to live her normal life and the power was just a fun toy for her she didn't understand. Another point that would have helped is to give us a full episode of with Max with no powers in the beginning in order to see that contrast. Bottom line I didn't understand that a teen girl's power fantasy might involve being the most popular person in the school vs being a superhero which is what I desperately wanted Max to be.
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May 17, 2016 08:44
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DropsySufferer posted:One thing that bugged was what happened with William and Chole. There was a way out of that one but Max wasn't thinking hard enough. Max could gone back again and warned William not to buy a new truck for his daughter. I am not really sure that William would have taken Max's warning (which would have come years before actually buying the truck comes up) seriously.
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May 17, 2016 09:28
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So I guess the moral is that we only have one go around on this crazy wheel called life so everybody try to take care of the people you love because if you fail them you fail them for good. gently caress that though, has anyone posted the real ending yet? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn67F0F_i1c
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May 17, 2016 11:33
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Banemaster posted:I am not really sure that William would have taken Max's warning (which would have come years before actually buying the truck comes up) seriously. Yeah. Remember that Max can only travel through time through photographs- specifically photographs with her in it. Given that she wasn't in the photograph where chloe got the truck, there was no way she could travel to any point where William would know what she was talking about, or remember it later.
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May 17, 2016 12:46
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The idea of time self-correcting if it goes off course is a thing in science fiction too. There was a whole subplot in LOST for a while where a person who was supposed to die keeps getting saved over and over with time travel shenanigans. It stands to reason that the nature of time itself needs Chloe dead to get back on course. The problem with that line of thinking is the story isn't really about time travel and superpowers. Science fiction and fantasy are very rarely about what you actually see going on. The only real problem I had with Sacrifice the Town ending was neither of them seem too broken up about everybody getting obliterated by a giant Time Storm. That said, this was a really cool story and I'm glad I watched this LP. Good job, Panzer! samu3lk fucked around with this message at 16:15 on May 17, 2016 |
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May 17, 2016 16:13
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This and your OFF LP are two of the best things I've seen on these forums, Panzer. Bravo.resurgam40 posted:Yeah. Remember that Max can only travel through time through photographs- specifically photographs with her in it. The photo of the butterfly she travelled to in order to sacrifice Chloe didn't have her in it, though?
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May 17, 2016 18:26
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Skelicopter posted:The photo of the butterfly she travelled to in order to sacrifice Chloe didn't have her in it, though? Look more closely.
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May 17, 2016 18:35
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Skelicopter posted:This and your OFF LP are two of the best things I've seen on these forums, Panzer. Bravo. http://lparchive.org/Saints-Row-2/  Trigger warning: crying
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May 17, 2016 20:48
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