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Earwicker posted:I think you are missing something here. Pretending to be something one is not is often anything but simple, and at times can be a rather important practice. In fact it can, at times, be a major step towards actually becoming something one is not (or was not), at least in terms of how your actions and thoughts are present in the world. When this involves the trappings of authority that is especially the case. This is what I was trying to say in my post above. It's an important psychological aspect of a magician's development into something that is at first separate from their mundane self, but eventually reaching a point of uniting the mundane and magical self. Also, I knew that about the degrees and magic mottos (I'm currently working on becoming an official "student" in the A.•.A.•.), it's just that Perdurabo is probably my favorite motto. With the magick stuff it's really just best to fully embrace the cheese and let your imagination go, at least in my experience.
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Feb 9, 2016 02:23
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Earwicker posted:I think you are missing something here. Pretending to be something one is not is often anything but simple, and at times can be a rather important practice. In fact it can, at times, be a major step towards actually becoming something one is not (or was not), at least in terms of how your actions and thoughts are present in the world. When this involves the trappings of authority that is especially the case. Yeah, but since the end-game of occult or esoteric study is realising your True Will/Inner Higher Nature/etc. (ie. that THAT that you actually ARE under all the bullshit) starting the game by aping language or behaviour patterns that you think give you an air of mystery/importance is missing the point by a country mile. For the avoidance of doubt I was more thinking about the 'airs and graces' that so many think they have to put on when meeting others rather than in text. Especially when the facade can't be consistently maintained. [anecdote]I once had the dubious pleasure of being present at a large, high-power, out door meeting of assorted 'Wisdom Keepers' ranging from the head of OBOD to neo-shamen to angel-channelers and watched with growing amusement as they all started scrabbling around for compasses to make sure that a preliminary ritual could be orientated on the cardinal points. After a good 15 minutes of this I finally pointed out that we were all standing under a beautiful clear sky with the Great Bear/Dipper and Pole star clearly visible, and there's your North... Children know this poo poo, so where's all that wisdom?[/anecdote] A human heart posted:Also especially in older occult stuff complicated language is just one of many things that writers used to make sure that only initiates could know what a text was actually about. Lil Mama Im Sorry posted:Also, I knew that about the degrees and magic mottos (I'm currently working on becoming an official "student" in the A.•.A.•.), it's just that Perdurabo is probably my favorite motto.
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Feb 9, 2016 22:49
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EmptyVessel posted:
The Phyllis Seckler lineage. Any experience?
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Feb 10, 2016 01:34
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EmptyVessel posted:For the avoidance of doubt I was more thinking about the 'airs and graces' that so many think they have to put on when meeting others rather than in text. Especially when the facade can't be consistently maintained. oh yeah I was responding more to the notion of "complicated language" and the general idea of pretense which can in fact be valuable. "airs and graces" just makes me think of some kind of renaissance faire nonsense also even if someone doesn't know the constellations for whatever reason how does it take anyone 15 minutes to use a compass. the arrow points north.
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Feb 10, 2016 15:28
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Earwicker posted:also even if someone doesn't know the constellations for whatever reason how does it take anyone 15 minutes to use a compass. the arrow points north. They couldn't find anyone there with one and started making guesses as to where sunrise had been or what direction the town lights should be in (without a map). This for an event that had been planned for months and was the culmination of a week of activities in the same place. Knowing how to get at least a vague orientation from your enviroment is something that I'd consider pretty basic - how you going to navigate the subtler realms if you have no grasp on the densest? The idea of using a notional 'Ritual East' in operative practice I have no problem with but as a conceptual approach it needs to be grounded in something concrete* or you are just building cloud castles. *ie. the Thelemite practice of Resh which has as a core an awareness of daily solar movement, symbolic and actual. (Course it too is open to over simplification - I'd argue for actual local sunset/sunrise practice but it gets reduced to 6pm and 6 am by people who don't spend enough time outside. (I'd also argue for using local noon/midnite rather than 12 am/pm by the clock but that's a pretty esoteric thought these days. Ridiculously easy to find if you've a clear day or two, some ground and a stick though.)) Lil Mama Im Sorry posted:The Phyllis Seckler lineage.
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Feb 10, 2016 16:14
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EmptyVessel posted:They couldn't find anyone there with one and started making guesses as to where sunrise had been or what direction the town lights should be in (without a map). This for an event that had been planned for months and was the culmination of a week of activities in the same place. I don't understand how these people were able to even physically get themselves to the event in question. entirely regardless of any occult issues are these people functional adults?
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Feb 10, 2016 16:30
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EmptyVessel posted:They couldn't find anyone there with one and started making guesses as to where sunrise had been or what direction the town lights should be in (without a map). This for an event that had been planned for months and was the culmination of a week of activities in the same place. Knowing how to get at least a vague orientation from your enviroment is something that I'd consider pretty basic - how you going to navigate the subtler realms if you have no grasp on the densest? The idea of using a notional 'Ritual East' in operative practice I have no problem with but as a conceptual approach it needs to be grounded in something concrete* or you are just building cloud castles. I try to perform Resh as regular as possible but it's disappointedly really difficult to adhere to (for me). Though it does have the practical benefit, like you mentioned, of being mindful of my position at all times. It's slowly becoming part of my consciousness. Would you mind sharing some of your general experience with this stuff? You definitely know it well and you've actually participated in practices so I'm just really interested in hearing your first-hand anecdotes and history (like what got you interested, your main focuses of study, whatever you want to share basically).
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Feb 10, 2016 16:30
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Earwicker posted:I don't understand how these people were able to even physically get themselves to the event in question. entirely regardless of any occult issues are these people functional adults? Join an occult-oriented Facebook group and marvel at the amount of people who have completely abandoned anything nearing sense or logic. I wonder how a lot of them are capable of successfully typing a post.
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Feb 10, 2016 16:33
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the Coil group is the only "occult oriented" Facebook group I have any interest in looking at, ever.
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Feb 10, 2016 16:40
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Earwicker posted:the Coil group is the only "occult oriented" Facebook group I have any interest in looking at, ever. This is wise.
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Feb 10, 2016 17:10
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Lil Mama Im Sorry posted:Join an occult-oriented Facebook group and marvel at the amount of people who have completely abandoned anything nearing sense or logic. I wonder how a lot of them are capable of successfully typing a post. Can you share some examples?
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Feb 11, 2016 05:52
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Lil Mama Im Sorry posted:Join an occult-oriented Facebook group and marvel at the amount of people who have completely abandoned anything nearing sense or logic. I wonder how a lot of them are capable of successfully typing a post. One time I met a friend of a friend who insisted on "examining my chakras" and he decided the best place to do this was the food court of a closing Toronto shopping mall. What followed was me sitting awkwardly while a man with long hair and a very weird jacket stared at me while looking constipated and occasionally poking me. Eventually he declares that I only have two working chakras and that my "energetic legs" are broken. He's even got a blog. This person is apparently an ordained buddhist monk now? That is my weirdo occult dude story I hope you enjoyed it. Hate Fibration fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Feb 11, 2016 |
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Feb 11, 2016 22:54
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From galdraskræða  "Carve into a pig belly and color the carving with blood from the nose and the roots of the tongue and you shall never fall by the sword."  "Carve this stave into a sprig of rowan and fashion it into a wand. Color the carving with your own blood from the roots of the tongue. Strike the end which has the carving on into a hill, cliff or stone and [if it is home to hidden folk] it shall open."  "This stave is to be carved in oak, and the groove colored with blood. The blood is to be from the big toe of the right foot, and the thumb of the left hand, and then place this stave on the grave and walk three times clockwise and three times counter-clockwise around the church. Watch carefully to be sure that dirt spouts from the grave three times, and at the third spout it is imperative that you be prepared to receive the ghost, because it will then pop its head up. Immediately grab it by the throat and squeeze tightly, and hold it fast until it asks you to let it go. Then apply the necessary and appropriate methods, and tell the ghost what it is to do. If the ghost is to be animated greatly and sent a long distance, more robust methods will be necessary, and more than one sorcerer."
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Feb 17, 2016 00:49
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I've been reading Liber Null by Peter Carroll today and it's a really cool practically minded intro to weird magick things, really accessible in terms of how it's written while still being suitably full of crazy incredibly dense ideas. Apparently it's written specifically as an introduction to the Illuminates of Thanateros, but I have no idea what that means. It's also together with a book called Psychonaut by the same author and I can't decide whether that sounds stupid or good probably both CestMoi fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Feb 19, 2016 |
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Feb 19, 2016 23:40
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I tend to adhere to Crowley's notion that all other efforts than trying to achieve conversation with your guardian angel or finding your true will is black magic. That is of course exaggeration but guideline enough to stay away from black or chaos magic or even from the Kenneth Grant stuff. But maybe I'm just old sissy. Judging from the name Thanateros and "half of this book is dedicated to the dark arts" that IOT is some kind of chaos/black magic group.
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Feb 20, 2016 01:04
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I think as long as whatever magical operation you're performing is done so as a part of gaining that K&CoHGA or toward finding or exploring your "true will" then it doesn't matter what particular school it comes from. "Black magick" is moreso a term applied to anything that is in service to the ego, or is done automatically. For instance, reaching for a cigarette without thought is black magick. Ordering drinks #4, 5, and 6 when you know you have to be up early and stated you were only going to have 2-- is black magick.
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Feb 20, 2016 01:27
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Yeah Peter Carroll's a chaos magic guy probably based on the fact there's another book by him called Liber Kaos. Is chaos magic as dramatic and cliché as the name makes it sound?
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Feb 20, 2016 01:47
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CestMoi posted:Yeah Peter Carroll's a chaos magic guy probably based on the fact there's another book by him called Liber Kaos. Is chaos magic as dramatic and cliché as the name makes it sound? From what I've read, yes.
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Feb 20, 2016 20:21
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IMO a good book on chaos magic is The Manual (How To Have A Number One The Easy Way)
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Feb 20, 2016 20:26
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 Þykkt blóð, þreytast rekkar. Þjóð mörg vos öld bjóða, grand heitt, gummar andast, glatast auður, firrast snauðir. Hætt grand hræðast dróttir hríð mörg, vesöld kvíða, angur vænt, ærnar skærur. Illur sveimur nú er í heimi. Earwicker posted:IMO a good book on chaos magic is The Manual (How To Have A Number One The Easy Way) Is this video, also about having a number one, an adaptation of that book? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jS7nafnLrE
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Feb 20, 2016 21:04
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A human heart posted:Can you share some examples? Here's one from today. I'm not sure what this is even trying to get at: 
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Feb 20, 2016 21:36
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Yes, really makes you think.
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Feb 20, 2016 21:43
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lolLil Mama Im Sorry posted:Do it up! Mystical Qabalah is on my wishlist but I'm still digging thru 777 and Liber ABA/Book 4. Reading 777 without a firm grounding in theory is like trying to understand statistics by reading tables of T statistics  I found Fortune's Mystical Qabalah to be a really intuitive overview to the subject and how it interrelates with a host of other subjects, and highly recommend it. That said, I've a bias having studied for a while in the Fortune/Butler lineage. Someone asked about non Qabalah readings in western mysteries, and I can recommend a few. The Western Way and Walkers between the Worlds give a broad overview of western mystery traditions, with a bit of a neopagan emphasis (from what I recall, its been a few years since I read them). The Forgotten Mage gives access to the practice of one particular magician, Charles Seymour, through personal correspondences. Its a fascinating, personal, look at what it means to be a magician. A very good companion to this is Dancers to the Gods. Also see the volumes on pathworking, or guided meditations, by Ashcroft-Nowicki. A good starter is Highways of the Mind.
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Feb 22, 2016 19:17
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Bilirubin posted:lol I'm now about 100 pages into Mystical Qabalah and I'm loving it. I should add that I had already read Regardie's Tree of Life and Garden of Pomegranates, as well as the Sepher Yetzirah before I picked up 777. Also, from adventures in Western Esoteric Social Media:  "this guy is totally harshin' my True Will buzz
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Feb 23, 2016 02:08
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Feb 23, 2016 04:38
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Lil Mama Im Sorry posted:Join an occult-oriented Facebook group and marvel at the amount of people who have completely abandoned anything nearing sense or logic. I wonder how a lot of them are capable of successfully typing a post. This is pretty hilarious coming form a person who posts seriously about "magick" and alchemy.
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Feb 23, 2016 16:13
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Mr.48 posted:This is pretty hilarious coming form a person who posts seriously about "magick" and alchemy. What dark sorcery conjured up such a siq burn?
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Feb 23, 2016 20:35
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Lil Mama Im Sorry posted:What dark sorcery conjured up such a siq burn? Found it in an ancient tome of forbidden wisdom! Seriously though, I'm not trying to hate on you for having this weird hobby and your posts are pretty interesting to read in an Ulillillia sort of way. But its pretty silly for you to act high and mighty relative to other people who have the same silly hobby.
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Feb 23, 2016 22:38
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Mr.48 posted:Seriously though, I'm not trying to hate on you for having this weird hobby and your posts are pretty interesting to read in an Ulillillia sort of way. But its pretty silly for you to act high and mighty relative to other people who have the same silly hobby. right and if you play video games its silly for you to make fun of people who smash up their computers over anger at a game, or people who want to gently caress sonic the hedgehog, etc because after all you have the same silly hobby
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Feb 23, 2016 22:44
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Earwicker posted:right and if you play video games its silly for you to make fun of people who smash up their computers over anger at a game, or people who want to gently caress sonic the hedgehog, etc because after all you have the same silly hobby More like I think its silly for furries that want to gently caress Sonic to make fun of furries who want to gently caress unicorns. They're all just idiots who want to gently caress imaginary animals.
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Feb 23, 2016 22:53
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Mr.48 posted:More like I think its silly for furries that want to gently caress Sonic to make fun of furries who want to gently caress unicorns. They're all just idiots who want to gently caress imaginary animals. I'm really not sure how being interested in occult literature is remotely comparable to being a furry. Personally I think it is ok to be interested in a subject, and also sometimes make fun of people who's interest in that same subject has led them to believe it's ok to start being a huge rear end in a top hat at work or whatever that person is going on about Earwicker fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Feb 23, 2016 |
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Feb 23, 2016 22:58
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Sefer Yiffsirah
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Feb 23, 2016 23:02
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Mr.48 posted:Found it in an ancient tome of forbidden wisdom! Can you scan and post a pdf or can I find it on Amazon? 
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Feb 23, 2016 23:10
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Mr.48 posted:Seriously though, I'm not trying to hate on you for having this weird hobby and your posts are pretty interesting to read in an Ulillillia sort of way. But its pretty silly for you to act high and mighty relative to other people who have the same silly hobby. I have exactly zero interest derailing this thread into back and forth burns or even debating the merits of occult studies with someone who doesn't have any interest in approaching it with an open mind or letting down their cynical defenses. So please either engage with one of the texts or make a post that can be engaged with intellectual discussion. If you can't do this then my advice is to go to just about anywhere else on the Internet and find someone who at least wants to argue with you. I'm honestly shocked it's taken til page 3 for  Smug rear end in a top hat to wander in and drop a meaningless turd in the middle of the room (I was sure it'd be the first response but surprisingly it hasn't happened until now).
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Feb 23, 2016 23:56
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Mr.48 posted:This is pretty hilarious coming form a person who posts seriously about "magick" and alchemy. This is like atheists who think they're better than anyone who studies the bible for any reason, because you know none of that poo poo is real right?!
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Feb 23, 2016 23:57
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CestMoi posted:Sefer Yiffsirah lol Seriously though, whereas I am an atheist myself, I am always interested in getting a better perspective on myself and my motivations for doing why I do. I mean, its obvious when looking at others but for some reason my own subconscious is a bit opaque to me. A lot of these teachings are designed to help with this. Same with Buddhism. I think I can learn from that even if I do not swallow the endless cycle of reincarnation, right? Buddhists would say so so vOv Similarly a focused will is, perhaps trivially, an essential step in creativity. And living in the moment is something we should all strive to do because we could be hit by a bus tomorrow. The idea one might be raising up demons from a circle drawn in chalk lit by paraffin is pretty nuts though.
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Feb 24, 2016 08:40
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I'm getting into some of the weirder occult stuff now and I gotta say Christopher S Hyatt has a dope author's pic:
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Mar 13, 2016 21:20
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Lil Mama Im Sorry posted:(I'm currently working on becoming an official "student" in the A.•.A.•.) I don't know if this means anything coming from me, especially considering the kinds of stupid nonsense I go on about on SA which is orders of magnitude stupider than I normally am - no mean feat - but I'd say that there's no "becoming" there; your intent marks you as already a student, and one who has advanced further than most already by the act of looking.
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Mar 18, 2016 13:20
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precision posted:I don't know if this means anything coming from me, especially considering the kinds of stupid nonsense I go on about on SA which is orders of magnitude stupider than I normally am - no mean feat - but I'd say that there's no "becoming" there; your intent marks you as already a student, and one who has advanced further than most already by the act of looking. Well it was really just a matter of hearing back from the Cancellarius, which actually just happened a few days ago. I've got 90 days or so of studying to do before examination. Good news is that I've already read most of the books on the syllabus and have at least a beginner's understanding of their esoteric meaning, which I'm pretty sure is all they're looking for.
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Mar 18, 2016 23:12
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There's a fairly robust Golden Dawn presence in the area here, and yet all they ever want to do is drink absinthe and eventually wander off in pairs (or more) to gently caress. It's more or less the equivalent of my childhood Wednesday night "Bible Study" which consisted of reading a verse for five minutes and then the pastor taking us outside to play kickball all night. edit: Which, to be clear, owned.
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Mar 19, 2016 04:27
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