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I've found threads for a lot of dog breeds and breed types here, but I see nothing for the little guys: Bichons, Chihuahuas, Shih Tzus, Maltese, Yorkies, etc. Can I get some pics/stories/info here? Background: I'm planning to get a dog in about six months (current living situation won't allow it) so I'm putting my dog-obsession into internet research. For practical reasons, I want a small, easy, cuddly dog. I have two grade-school-age kids who are intimidated by big dogs, and I live in North Dakota, where I prefer not to go outside more than absolutely necessary for the 2-3 months when it's -20 degrees F outside with a foot or two of snow. I do have a big house, so a small dog could bounce around indoors, but I think a larger one would feel cooped up. I'm slightly allergic to some dogs, but haven't had a problem with my friend's dog who is a Bichon/Lhasa Apso/Pomeranian mix and doesn't shed. A non-shedding dog would be ideal. Any advice on any of the smaller breeds would be great. Or just pics and discussion about these types of dogs. TIA.
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Nov 17, 2015 20:08
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I'm not usually a big fan of small dogs but I've met a few havanese and they were all super fun little dogs. They were all smart, playful and not super yappy. A+ dogs would mop again. Edit: Chis are probably going to have a lot of issues with the cold unless you're willing to bundle them up and they definitely shed. Every pom I've met has been an utter douchebag and I'm not sure I would trust a lot of them around kids because they can be bitey little assholes. Instant Jellyfish fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Nov 17, 2015 |
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Nov 17, 2015 22:05
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quote:I've found threads for a lot of dog breeds and breed types here, but I see nothing for the little guys: Bichons, Chihuahuas, Shih Tzus, Maltese, Yorkies, etc. Can I get some pics/stories/info here? I don't love when people opt to get small dogs because they don't, you know, plan to leave the house very often. I own a Chihuahua and live in Canada and, well, she's not well suited to the climate 4-5 months out of the year. I kind of think it's cruel to have a dog that's not well suited to being outside even for small bits of time. However, that's just me and my hangups. Expect some housebreaking regression has days get colder, and generally I find smaller dogs more challenging to housebreak in general. Havanese are one of my favourite small dog breeds. They're sturdy, not typically as neurotic and reactive as other small breeds, and can turn off & on the energy reserves fairly readily. I also don't much care for people intentionally breeding small dog mixes (or mixes in general). Normally it's just an excuse to charge $$$ in exchange for a dog that's poorly bred, sans health testing and without a reliable estimate as to its adult temperament. The few Bichons I've met seem pretty sturdy and resilient. Chis are sensitive and anxious. Poms and Paps are likely more energy than you're looking for. Pugs are a heinous genetic mess, so I would avoid. I'd avoid short coated dogs due to climate concerns. Dogs with hair will need to be groomed and trimmed regularly, so factor that cost of upkeep into your figures while you budget for your pup. How small/large are you thinking? There's a big difference between a 3 pound Chi and a 15 pound scruffy terrier mix.
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Nov 17, 2015 22:23
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Instant Jellyfish posted:I'm not usually a big fan of small dogs but I've met a few havanese and they were all super fun little dogs. They were all smart, playful and not super yappy. A+ dogs would mop again. I actually can't stand chihuahuas, it just seemed unfair to have a thread about small dogs and not mention them. And yeah, not a pom fan either. I have not met any havanese but they look adorable. I have spent some time around bichons and liked them a lot, but they seemed a bit bouncy and yappy. This is more my sort of dog:  (Not a dog I know, just a random cute internet dog.) Also, my 8-year-old is autistic and would probably do best with a dog who is warm, patient and friendly. (He is a good kid and knows how to treat animals gently, it isn't that - it's just that he doesn't quite know how to approach them, and might have a hard time getting close to a more standoffish dog.)
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Nov 17, 2015 22:35
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pookel posted:Also, my 8-year-old is autistic and would probably do best with a dog who is warm, patient and friendly. (He is a good kid and knows how to treat animals gently, it isn't that - it's just that he doesn't quite know how to approach them, and might have a hard time getting close to a more standoffish dog.) I would speak to some people very, very well versed in the breed(s) you're looking at. Small dogs aren't renowned for being warm, patient and/or friendly. Many may be, but that strikes me as something you'll want people to weigh in on who are intimately familiar with the breeds, warts and all. I'm not a small dog lover, so, well, beyond chihuahuas = barks and shivers my knowledge is a bit weak.
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Nov 17, 2015 22:44
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a life less posted:I don't love when people opt to get small dogs because they don't, you know, plan to leave the house very often. quote:I also don't much care for people intentionally breeding small dog mixes (or mixes in general). Normally it's just an excuse to charge $$$ in exchange for a dog that's poorly bred, sans health testing and without a reliable estimate as to its adult temperament. quote:The few Bichons I've met seem pretty sturdy and resilient. Chis are sensitive and anxious. Poms and Paps are likely more energy than you're looking for. Pugs are a heinous genetic mess, so I would avoid. I'd avoid short coated dogs due to climate concerns. Dogs with hair will need to be groomed and trimmed regularly, so factor that cost of upkeep into your figures while you budget for your pup. How small/large are you thinking? There's a big difference between a 3 pound Chi and a 15 pound scruffy terrier mix. Oh, and if my boyfriend and I move in together, at some point, it would be sharing space with an elderly (very sweet and patient) St. Bernard. Don't know if that's in the works anytime soon, though.
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Nov 17, 2015 22:56
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As I've been told, the main issue with Poms is that they're actually much closer to one of the primitive breeds in temperament - huskies and the like, and most people who get a Pom only think "tiny adorable dog," not "unusually smart dog not inclined to give a gently caress about you or what you want unless you give it a good reason."
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Nov 17, 2015 23:03
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If I were in your shoes I'd look for a really good rescue that fosters their dogs and let them know exactly what you're looking for. A lot of small dog specific rescues seem to basically be fronts for hoarders and be prepared to hear a lot of bitching and moaning about you having kids but if you find a good, sane rescue they should be able to hook you up with a dog that will be appropriate for your family. Just be sure to stick to your "must haves" and don't fall for a sad story and end up with an 80 lb psycho bite risk like I did! An adult rehome/retired show dog from an excellent breeder would also be a great choice.
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Nov 18, 2015 00:46
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I like havanese
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Nov 18, 2015 01:51
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There aren't really any rescues in my town - just one standard no-kill shelter which mostly has labs and pit bulls. Would it be weird to look at rescues farther away? The closest I've found is about a three-hour drive. I don't mind driving to pick up a dog, but if they want a few visits first, that would be difficult. Yes, I live in the middle of loving nowhere.
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Nov 18, 2015 03:08
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I think four different people have told me "havanese" now, but I've never even seen one. Are they rare? Or just rare up north? Edit to add: I just saw this local listing. Is it just me or does this sound like an, uh, interesting mix? "The pups are 1/4 Jack Russell, 1/4 Chihuahua, 1/4 Pekingese and 1/4 Terrier. They will be small indoor dogs. " pookel fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Nov 18, 2015 |
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Nov 18, 2015 17:32
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They're not particularly cheap, from what I understand. No idea if they're rare. I've met a dozen or so over the years.
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Nov 18, 2015 17:35
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My parents have one and she is pretty great. Lots of energy but more than happy to let that out inside when it's not nice out and she isn't demanding except for rubbing her butt on your foot if it's elevated. They went through a [crazy] rescue but I assume that's the norm for any small dog rescue. They're originally Cuban as the name implies and I don't know how popular they were outside of that area 50 years ago. They can grow out a rug but I'm not sure how well that translates to doing super well in the winter, but there was a dude who walked around with one in Cleveland's winter who gave no shits.
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Nov 18, 2015 17:45
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For low/no shedding - Mini poodles. Will require grooming though. In my (limited) experience, they tolerate children - Ellie was 12 years old and hadn't been socialized with children and was jealous of the attention her owner was giving them. She got better once she realized that they dropped food. Gratuitous photo-dump.   She liked older people. Made going for walks awkward at times. Horde of kids would be all excited to see her fluffly self; and she'd be all over grandma.
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Nov 18, 2015 22:55
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How about a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel? Small but not fragile, affectionate, steady temperament, easy to groom, don't bark much, laid back. My sister has two of them and they're pretty chill dogs.
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Nov 18, 2015 23:46
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D'awww, those flying ears on Ellie are great. I made friends with a tiny poodle a long time ago, when I volunteered at the animal shelter as a teenager. He'd been badly neglected and was terrified of everything, but he was so sweet once he warmed up to you. His name was Pierre.  Cavaliers are on my list, but I've heard they can be really energetic/strong-willed, and might be bad for allergies. Is that accurate?
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Nov 19, 2015 01:13
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Energetic? They're actually pretty low energy, content to sit with you and watch TV. Not to say they don't need exercise but they're hardly hyper. They're not said to be hypoallergenic, but my sister has allergies and they don't set her off. Here, see what the AKC has to say: http://www.akc.org/dog-breeds/cavalier-king-charles-spaniel/
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Nov 19, 2015 01:17
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They're pretty cool dogs. Some are pains in the butts, others are sensitive and sweet. Unfortunately, almost every single Cav will have a heart murmur by 5 years old and most will die of heart problems. They're not a terribly healthy breed.
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Nov 19, 2015 01:50
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Cavaliers are incredibly sweet dogs with a wonderful temperament but heart disease is very significant in that breed. I don't persuade people from getting them per se because they're great but if you do, I would save money for the inevitable visit to a cardiologist as that dog gets older.
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Nov 19, 2015 05:49
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Mallory Ortberg of The Toast recently adopted a 10-year-old Cav named Murphy and has been tweeting a bunch of pictures of him, every one of which makes me want to find out where she lives and kidnap him:    I must have been confusing them with a different breed I was looking at (I've been reading obsessively) when I was thinking "high energy." Maybe it was the potential for shedding/allergens that I was concerned about.
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Nov 19, 2015 15:20
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p.s. Requesting small dog pics in this thread, too.
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Nov 19, 2015 15:21
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I have always said if I were ever going to get a genetic disaster small breed dog it would 100% be a Cavalier because they are the sweetest little dogs ever. I don't know that I would do a rescue Cavy though, sad to say I'd rather have a dog whose diseases in the lineage are known (the devil you know, etc...). Most of them will get mitral valve disease at some point, it's just a matter of when - it's not so bad if they start to have a murmur at age, say, 8-9 or so, but the ones who have a murmur at 4-5, well... And you may just be making the specialist rounds too - just about every Cavalier has a touch of caudal occipital malformation and some of them end up developing chronic pain or neurological problems from syringohydromyelia (buildup of CSF in the spinal cord). There is a surgery that can be done if it's done before signs are too significant but generally once a syrinx forms that level of damage is irreversible. Sekhmet fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Nov 19, 2015 |
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Nov 19, 2015 15:45
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I'd best avoid them, then.  It's not the time commitment or the fear of a dog dying young, it's just that I simply don't have that kind of money. I know you can't plan for everything that happens, but I want to at least try for a healthy dog, or one whose issues are known (and not so expensive).Too bad - they really are beautiful.
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Nov 19, 2015 15:58
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I'm in a similar situation. I just purchased a house with an acre of land, live in the upper Midwest so winters can be uncomfortably cold/windy, want a snuggling lap dog that I can go on walks with, and plan to eventually train it to be used as a therapy dog at our local children's hospital. I get allergy headaches around some dogs, so a less-allergen producing breed would be important. I'm still a few years out in actually purchasing a dog, but enjoy researching breeds in the meantime. Favorite breeds so far (all are considered less-allergen producing by "the internet"): Havanese- Pro: Loves everyone/dogs/other animals, compact but sturdy dog. Con: I love the mop look but it would have to be a puppy cut as we live in a wooded lot and tick checks would be horrible with that much hair. What's good what's bad: http://www.yourpurebredpuppy.com/reviews/havanese.html Dogs 101: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VyL0SAVQ7s Dogtime: http://dogtime.com/dog-breeds/havanese Vetstreet: http://www.vetstreet.com/dogs/havanese Bichon frise- Pro: Loves everyone/dogs/other animals, compact but sturdy dog. Con: Only come in white/tear stains. What's good what's bad: http://www.yourpurebredpuppy.com/reviews/bichonfrise.html Dogs 101: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LCD7rXufxI Breed all about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2ulBDtF8R4 Dogtime: http://dogtime.com/dog-breeds/bichon-frise Vetstreet: http://www.vetstreet.com/dogs/bichon-frise Miniature Poodle- Pro: Compact dogs that can be trained in practically anything, super smart, known to be hypoallergenic. Con: Prefer the personality of a standard poodle but they would need even more exercise. Need lots of mental stimulation because they are so smart. What's good what's bad: http://www.yourpurebredpuppy.com/reviews/miniaturepoodles.html Dogs 101: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74mx2OWM6mE Breed all about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aObVVzOhp5g Dogtime: http://dogtime.com/dog-breeds/poodle Vetstreet: http://www.vetstreet.com/dogs/poodle Miniature Schnauzer- Pro: My aunt had one that was a therapy dog and it was very mellow and loved laps. Con: Most have a standard terrier personality, so buying a known very mellow adult would be required. May have small dog syndrome. What's good what's bad: http://www.yourpurebredpuppy.com/reviews/miniatureschnauzers.html Dogs 101: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRszUp7GrN8 Breed all about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_nooqDig_g Dogtime: http://dogtime.com/dog-breeds/miniature-schnauzer Vetsreet: http://www.vetstreet.com/dogs/miniature-schnauzer ------------------------- (Some say Papillon are hypoallergenic, other other sites say no.) Papillon- Pro: Cutest dog ever, imo. I've had one on my lap and it was like petting a cat, which I love. I didn't get a headache from it but only spent an hour in the house. Con: Can get small dog syndrome. Compact but fragile, so can be injured by kids and falls. What's good what's bad: http://www.yourpurebredpuppy.com/reviews/papillons.html Dogs 101: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCB6a1nNFec Breed all about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpphC5Y4K-4 Dogtime: http://dogtime.com/dog-breeds/papillon Vetstreet: http://www.vetstreet.com/dogs/papillon Ferryll fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Nov 19, 2015 |
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Nov 19, 2015 17:40
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Ferryll posted:
I think a lot of people consider Paps low-allergen because they normally don't have much in the way of undercoat. Good write up! E: My 11 year old Chi, Megatron. She was a mess when she initially came to me. Now she's a pretty good dog. Super sensitive, which I think is her biggest drawback. Super food motivated, however, so can do just about anything. 
a life less fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Nov 19, 2015 |
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Nov 19, 2015 18:24
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I get that chis can be perfectly good dogs if raised and trained properly by my God are most chis not raised or trained properly.
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Nov 19, 2015 20:54
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Since this is the newly minted small dog thread, does anyone have suggestions on winter clothes? This is my second actual winter, and I am scratching my head over how my dogs survived the last one with no "real" winter clothing to speak of. Sure, I had their sweaters from those chilly <50 days in California but that must have sucked for them at 6a.m. in subzero temps. Last winter we got down to -14 but most days were single digits or teens. I just bought some silly wool blend custom jacket for the mini dachshund who spends about three minutes outside at a time. He's 13 and poops/pees basically the instant you put him down so he gets to go back in after a little reward jog. I love him, but I'm not the one who takes him outside. I get stuck with my dog, a jerk of a rat terrier mix who has to poop directly onto bushes/trees/walls/rocks or through fences and needs some wind up to do so. I'm trying to find something for him that isn't $80 w/o shipping. He also is not afraid of snow at all and last year got stuck in snow drifts a few times due to his tiny stiletto paws, what a ditz. This is how they spend most of their day: being two old men. 
Primpin and Pimpin fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Nov 19, 2015 |
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Nov 19, 2015 21:38
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What a happy and confident dog! It's a pity that so many small dogs get poor training. They may be tiny, but there's still a wolf brain in there that deserves respect.
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Nov 19, 2015 22:13
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There was someone in PI who had the sweetest and spunkiest lil chihahua and it completely recolored my feelings about them I think she posted videos of her passing some kind of obedience test and just being the best
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Nov 19, 2015 23:49
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At the risk of getting crucified .... OK, so in my scouring of local listings, I ran across a farm family that raises and sells a variety of small hybrid dogs. They also raise and sell horses and ponies. Their prices are around $400-$500 a dog, and they look healthy in pictures. They offer a guaranteed refund if a puppy is found to have a health problem. Their dogs are a variety of ridiculously named hybrids of Cavaliers, Lhasa Apsos, Bichons, and Shih Tzus, and are really adorable (of course). If I were going to consider maybe thinking about looking at these dogs, what sorts of questions should I ask? Should I even consider it? I'd much rather get a shelter mutt, but I haven't seen very many that fit my specifications.
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Nov 20, 2015 02:00
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Disclaimer: Information obtained from lots of internet research. Last time I had a dog it was when I was kid and someone had dropped the dog off at our rural property. If getting a hybrid, I'd recommend researching both breeds and being okay with either breed of dog, regarding allergen factor, health problems, shredding, personality, energy level, etc. The allergen factor is super important because puppies and kitten produce a lot less dander than when they are adults. So unless you're getting a retired adult, if getting from a breeder, snuggle both the sire and the dam to see if you may have potential issues. On a similar note, if anyone is selling their retired adult dog, you could get it a lot cheaper and not have to go through that crazy puppy stage. Plus, you would know it's final personality and characteristics. (That's how I got my awesome lower energy year old Bengal cat, who had awesome manners, and who had never been bred and came neutered due to a tiny tail kink.) For hybrid/mutt health benefits, I've read frequently that you want a X bred with a Y; that breeding XY to XY dogs result in no health benefits and have the same pedigree/inbreeding issues. If at all possible, I'd try to find a breeder that posts their health testing against the prevalent health issues for that particular dog breed. I had a coworker who got a very expensive goldendoodle from a highly sought after breeder. Once her dog was an adult, she became a healthcare train wreck with a bunch of genetically linked issues. Not sure about specific questions to ask.
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Nov 20, 2015 05:26
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pookel posted:At the risk of getting crucified .... I think you already know that this isn't a great idea. And "look healthy in pictures" means about bupkis in real life. A lot of these types of places offer some sort of health guarantee until the pup is 6/12 months old, but fail to mention that most serious diseases don't make themselves known until a dog is mature. Also a lot of the time the guarantee hinges on you returning the dog that you surely have grown to love to the breeder for a new puppy. I think a lot of unscrupulous breeders understand that many people, if not most people, won't give a dog back and won't likely have to make good on their promise as a result. I imagine that the extent of the health testing that the breeding dogs have received is "vet looked at them and said they were okay", which doesn't cut it as far as responsible breeding goes. They're breeding mixes for money. Most of the time they're not going to be doing things that actively increase their costs. I also think that a lot of commercial/for profit type breeders neglect the temperament of their dogs, and neglect any socialization of the pups. I see a lot of dogs with poor temperaments (anxious, fearful, aggressive) being bred. It's no skin off the breeders' backs since they don't actually really need to interact with these dogs a great deal. They also don't likely go out of their way to expose the puppies to new experiences when young during critical stages in puppy development. They don't put any thought into the temperament of the individual puppies and the suitability of their respective homes -- they let the purchaser pick whichever puppy they want, normally based on appearance and sex more than anything else. So, uhm, what questions should you ask? I'd be looking for health certifications, temperament testing, them actually doing something with their dogs other than breeding them (showing them, therapy work, etc.). I'd want to know what the breeder does to match puppies with families, and why the breeder is pairing the two dogs she did to produce a litter. I predict that the breeder won't have satisfactory answers for questions like these, and may try to bullshit you by saying that the parents are very sweet and the puppies are ergo guaranteed to be very sweet and yay sweetness. a life less fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Nov 20, 2015 |
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Nov 20, 2015 16:42
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You're right, and thanks for reminding me of all that. I know it, really - it's just hard to resist when they seem to be the only one in the state with my favorite breeds. I will limit myself to ogling the cute pictures, I think.
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Nov 20, 2015 18:00
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Terriers > all other small dogs. I have a pair of miniature schnauzers that were 7 and 4 when I got them and have been some of the best dogs ever. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5bIW882OR8 Pro:     Con: They take up much more space than expected in my bed and work together to push me onto the floor. One of them has a really strong drive to chase cats, birds, and squirrels, while the other has killed and attempted to eat various snakes and lizards.
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Nov 21, 2015 22:04
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So now that I swore up and down that there were no Havanese in North Dakota, someone a few hours away is selling two puppies, a boy and a girl. For $600 each and they sound pretty shady, and no. But they looked so cute in the ad. Meanwhile, after suffering a barrage of cute small dog links from me, my large-breed-preferring boyfriend just told me he's thinking seriously about getting a Boston terrier. Which, if we moved in together, would mean we might eventually have one tiny dustmop, one bouncy small dog, and one gigantic put-upon doorstop. Re: terriers, I just read this in Wikipedia's description of Bostons: "Terrier only in name, the Boston Terrier has lost most of its ruthless desire for mayhem." This sounds like every terrier I've ever known except for Yorkies. I admit I haven't known any schnauzers, but I am very leery of terriers because of the mayhem potential. My children create enough mayhem already.
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Nov 23, 2015 15:53
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In my experience bostons still desire mayhem but aren't able to breathe enough/have enough face to carry it out. Be sure to look up brachycephalic syndrome if you are interested in bostons, pugs, or any of the other flat faced dogs so you know what medical issues to be prepared for.
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Nov 23, 2015 17:13
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Instant Jellyfish posted:In my experience bostons still desire mayhem but aren't able to breathe enough/have enough face to carry it out. Be sure to look up brachycephalic syndrome if you are interested in bostons, pugs, or any of the other flat faced dogs so you know what medical issues to be prepared for. I know 3 Bostons and 2 of them have endless energy it seems, the only calm one has disabled back legs so hasn't got much of a choice. Again it depends on if you go to a breeder who breeds for pets or agility events. Mu Olde English Bulldogge has a fairly flat face, not pug flat but still very brachycephallic and she doesn't have issues breathing, the main problem was when she got a ton of dirt up her nose into her lungs and ended up with pneumonia.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:18
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Yeah, I wouldn't prefer a Boston, but ... we don't live together and it'd be totally boyfriend's decision, so I don't really have input, anyway.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:30
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Totally anecdotal but my mother-in-law had a Pom from an 8 week old puppy and she was a great dog. She wasn't pure bred and lived to be 14 or so. She had a neighbor who also had a Pom, this one pure bred, and that dog was a total headache.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:58
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Since you are looking at 15-20 pound dogs, a Cairn Terrier might be a good option. They're usually good with kids and are generally pretty sweet in general. I've loved all the ones I've met, really sweet while still keeping that terrier stubbornness.
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Nov 24, 2015 05:12
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