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I have family that works for PP. I very much appreciate everything you all do, especially on days like today. Thank you.
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Nov 28, 2015 08:13
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idk that's more of a fauxhawk
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Nov 28, 2015 08:37
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ExplodingChef posted:3) Guess today's events have answered this question well enough. Yeah, my political sense was tingling. Every time a group of politicians fly off the handle about something and introduce violence to the rhetoric some crazy person kills other people. I figured it was only a matter of time. The last time it was this bad a politician (Gabrielle Giffords) was shot in the head. Of course they could never have seen that happening and had no idea that their rhetoric would cause the deaths of others. quote:The antis also divide up along religious lines -- for the most part the Catholics do not associate with the fundamentalists who do not associate with the Lutherans, etc, etc. We've even got one lone pre-Vatican II Catholic that gets into arguments with the other Catholics. It's funny -- I was raised Jewish, and I had absolutely no idea that the different denominations ranged from simply disagreeing with to outright HATING the other groups. I just sort of assumed everyone under the "Christian" umbrella was in the same big "Yay Jesus!" camp with minor procedural differences. Standard Christian doctrine is that everyone who believes in this certain strain of Christianity is saved and everyone else are heretics who are doomed to hell. I used to think of Christians as a monolithic mass, but they're actually extremely factional and distrustful of one another. It's been that way since the first century and nothing has really changed since then.
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Nov 28, 2015 09:12
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Ice Phisherman posted:Standard Christian doctrine is that everyone who believes in this certain strain of Christianity is saved and everyone else are heretics who are doomed to hell. I used to think of Christians as a monolithic mass, but they're actually extremely factional and distrustful of one another. It's been that way since the first century and nothing has really changed since then. That's the case with basically any social movement which requires strong commitment from its followers. Judaism has its factions, Islam has its factions, the Communist movement has its factions etc.
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Nov 28, 2015 09:35
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I could never do this job because I would inevitably (and possibly quickly) lose the restraint to engage or throw a punch, so kudos to you. Juuuust as a hypothetical - what if someone (a woman, particularly) who gives no fucks were to dance with pompoms through their gauntlet going "Wooo can't wait to murder some babies!!!"?
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Nov 28, 2015 12:30
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I don't know man, that kid looks pretty tough. Lol
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Nov 28, 2015 23:32
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Ice Phisherman posted:Yeah, my political sense was tingling. Every time a group of politicians fly off the handle about something and introduce violence to the rhetoric some crazy person kills other people. I figured it was only a matter of time. The last time it was this bad a politician (Gabrielle Giffords) was shot in the head. I would argue that this really depends. I went to a couple of different Christian schools growing up, including a Christian university, and nobody really gave a flying gently caress about what your denomination was (unless you said that you went to Mars Hill, in which case people started avoiding you because Mark Driscoll is a shithead and his whole church was build around spiritual and emotional abuse) But yeah, the crazier you your congregation gets, the more that poo poo tends to matter.
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Nov 29, 2015 04:52
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Captain Melo posted:I don't know man, that kid looks pretty tough. Lol He's had 6 years of fighting, and wouldn't even feel it if I punched him. I do believe there is an actual hardcore fundie Christian dojo around here somewhere.
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Nov 29, 2015 05:34
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ExplodingChef posted:He's had 6 years of fighting, and wouldn't even feel it if I punched him. I wonder if they have the same kind of awkward discussions as I heard some committed Catholics having about mediation and mindfulness. [edit] To give a touch of context, a group of Italians who meet regularly to brush up their conversational English reading and discussing an article about the dangers of stress and how to deal with it. Munin fucked around with this message at 09:33 on Nov 29, 2015 |
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Nov 29, 2015 09:29
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About those dead fetus photos; I always liked how Doug Stanhope described anti abortion protestors who go to town with the dead fetus photo as being "pre-term Necrophiliacs"
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Nov 29, 2015 18:53
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Thank you so very much for what you do. I live in Boston, and we have a PP on the B line of our subway. I walked there once and as I was passing the PP, an elderly lady tried to hand me a card. I told her I disagree with her stance. Didn't say it in a nasty tone, didn't sneer, just plainly declined by saying "I disagree." She was hollering an entire block after me as I waled away about how God disagrees that abortion is a murder, abortion is a sin, etc, etc. This past shooting has inspired me to donate to PP because they need a sign of support.
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Nov 29, 2015 22:19
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Please stay safe, the world needs people like you. This seems like a good place to note that the families of the PP shooting victims were the ones who released their identities, the Colorado Springs PD keeping strangely silent about it. They haven't even made public what kind of gun he used, beyond saying it was a "rifle." This silence is almost assuredly political, as Colorado Springs is essentially run by gun-loving Evangelicals. Some of the articles surrounding Friday's shooting mentioned that PP staff were trained in how to deal with active shooter situations, does your clinic train their staff and/or escorts in that?
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Nov 30, 2015 23:14
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On a similar note, has the recent shooting changed anything for you guys, or the antis? I hope you guys are all doing alright. 
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Dec 1, 2015 04:24
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First, thank you for what you do! I always love when you make a new thread again, especially as I can never seem to find them in the archives. Second, I get the feeling the antis don't read their Bibles. Have you tried quoting Numbers 5 at them? In that, abortion is specifically assigned as a test for infidelity. Here's a snippet: 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children. What do you suppose they'd think of their own god telling Moses to abort fetuses?
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Dec 1, 2015 05:09
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FlamingSickle posted:First, thank you for what you do! I always love when you make a new thread again, especially as I can never seem to find them in the archives. "Well you see, that's a metaphor and furthermore..." Alternatively, "gently caress YOU BABY MURDERER"
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Dec 1, 2015 05:12
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EndlessRob posted:
I can't speak for the clinic staff, but I'm sure they have an action plan. We don't have one as escorts, but I'd be pretty sure that it's going to be discussed very, very shortly. At one point when my state legalized concealed carry we had a discussion about the viability of bulletproof vests, but decided it sent the wrong message (one of fear) to the antis. The fact that as escorts, nurses, staff, and doctors that we are being forced to have discussions about putting together active shooter bags and whether concealed carry in/out of a clinic is a good or bad idea makes me a combination of very angry and very sad. Krysmphoenix posted:On a similar note, has the recent shooting changed anything for you guys, or the antis? I hope you guys are all doing alright. We've been closed since Thanksgiving for the holiday, so we'll see. I don't normally escort on Tuesdays, but I took the day off and plan to hit the clinic for a few hours since it'll be our first day open since the shootings. We usually don't get a heavy crowd until Saturday, which will really be the day to see how they react. We've got one guy that has already told us in the past that "Paul Hill and Scott Roeder are heroes" and he "wishes someone would come down to the clinic with a gun and shoot us all." I'm sure he's pleased. Anecdote -- there's a woman who is now in Tampa named Diana. She's absolutely batshit crazy -- I have some videos on facebook that I can post if I save copies on my PC. Drives a big bloody fetus adorned truck, uses a microphone to scream at patients, just a nasty piece of work. Once saw her just LOSE it at a girl coming in with a much older guy -- "HE OBVIOUSLY RAPED HER AND YOU'RE COVERING IT UP raagh raaagh etc." The companion came out after she finally hosed off and chatted with me a little bit -- he was her grandfather, and was accompanying her to the clinic because she didn't have anyone else to and he wanted to support her. Anyways, one day Diana was loudly talking about the current political administration and repeatedly talked about how someone should blow up the W.H. One of the escorts decided it'd be worth it to place a call to an FBI agent we briefly had assigned to the clinic. Secret Service shows up at the escort's day job, talks to her, and lets her know that they'd be having a word with Diana. They followed up with the escort to let her know that they had done an interview, and that it had "gone about as well as you would expect." Oh, to be a fly on the wall. FlamingSickle posted:First, thank you for what you do! I always love when you make a new thread again, especially as I can never seem to find them in the archives. It's pick-and-choose Christianity. If they don't like it, ignore it or change it. We've tried bringing up the bible passage that's about not praying in public, but they don't seem to understand why that would apply to them.
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Dec 1, 2015 06:11
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Clinic was quiet. Total of 4 antis all day, one with an injunction anyways, none of them are the really bad ones. Saturday will probably be a very different story.
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Dec 2, 2015 02:56
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How often do you get counter-protestors? If you do see them, do they stay on the other side of the street, or do they try to butt heads with the usual antis? Though I'm sure it would make clients uneasy, I wonder how the protestors would react if the escorts all came in with temporary Satanist and/or pagan tattoos and symbols one day.
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Dec 2, 2015 18:41
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FlamingSickle posted:How often do you get counter-protestors? If you do see them, do they stay on the other side of the street, or do they try to butt heads with the usual antis? Every once in a while. We ask them to stay across the street in front of the CPC -- they usually either know us or are affiliated with an escort in some manner, so they're cool. We strongly discourage counterprotests in front of the clinic when the clinic is open -- all it does is create an even more circus-like atmosphere for patients and they just see more and more people with signs waving and yelling. We did do a counter a few years ago on a Saturday when the clinic was closed at the CPC. We did signs, handed out condoms, etc. The antis called the cops on us, of course. They told us we were fine as long as we didn't actually go on CPC property. The anti tried to get the cops to make us stop handing out condoms, and the reply they got was pretty much "you guys hand out poo poo all day, it's not illegal." Then some cops on horseback showed up, and that pretty much ended the counterprotest because we all had to go pet the horses. Honestly, I don't think it would make a difference, since the antis already think we're wiccan satanist atheist gays anyways. Funny story -- one of the pro-life leaders here posted a photo of a clinic staffer's tattoo on his FB asking for help deciphering what it was. They were falling all over themselves trying to identify it as some sort of pagan script or Enochian or occult. The tattoo, written in the staffer's Native American tribe's script, reads roughly "karma is a bitch."
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Dec 2, 2015 20:10
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I just started escorting 2 Saturdays ago at the clinic nearest me. We also don't have a buffer zone or a private parking lot and your pictures are pretty similar to the things that happen here. I feel your pain and I hope I can keep it up as long as you have. Keep up the amazing work!
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Dec 3, 2015 01:53
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I've probably posted this in most of your threads but maybe I just like repeating myself. People who escort are heroes in my book. I was 17 in 1992 and living in the city where the whole protesting shitshow was the worst. I'd been raised to agree with the protesters and had been thrilled to see that our city was getting national media coverage. That would show those abortion people! Yeah, then I made a bad choice one night and needed to go to PP to get a pregnancy test. As an introverted and shy 17 year old kid, being surrounded by screaming protesters the second I got out of the car was the most terrifying thing in the world. My pro-life stance shattered in the space of a breath as I started to panic. I couldn't have run away even if I'd wanted to since they were everywhere. They were screaming at me that I shouldn't be making this choice and that there were always better options. I would ruin my life if I went in there! An escort came to me, offering me a strong arm and guiding me to the door as he bodily shielded me from the raving lunatics. He sheltered me as we waited for the people inside to buzz me in. I was too scared and freaked out to tell the man thank you so I make a point to thank anyone who does this now. You may not hear a thanks from the person you're walking in but even 20+ years later, we thank you.
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Dec 5, 2015 10:51
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Props to what you do. I was locked up when my girlfriend got an abortion and she told me about all the protestors. I didn't realize people still did that. I would have probably gotten in a fight with them, almost certainly would have if I wasn't on parole/had a record. My girlfriend said they kept offering to take her to lunch or something while others just yelled.
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Dec 5, 2015 21:38
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Does your clinic offer other sexual health services apart from abortions? If so, what portion of patients turn up for routine examinations and STD tests, and how do they react to being called a babykiller?
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Dec 6, 2015 00:53
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Do you meet a lot of chicks doing this?
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Dec 6, 2015 01:42
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Love the thread and love your work, fortunately I live in a part of the world where this really isn't a problem but I'm so thankful for those of you who do it where it's needed. Vox has an article on escorts too and you can clearly see these people use the rainbow tactic to distinguish themselves from harassers.
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Dec 6, 2015 05:01
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That Vox article is quite the hot take. The reality is that staff across the country quit the next Monday out of fear for their lives and job applications for all positions have almost completely dried up. PP certainly has weathered far worse before, but to portray Colorado as somehow strengthening the organization, even in the short term, ignores the reality of the terrorism: One person, egged on by an entire industry of hate, very much impacted the quality of women's healthcare nationwide.
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Dec 6, 2015 06:16
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fosborb posted:That Vox article is quite the hot take. You got a source for that? It sounds messed up.
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Dec 6, 2015 23:20
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Soylent Yellow posted:Does your clinic offer other sexual health services apart from abortions? If so, what portion of patients turn up for routine examinations and STD tests, and how do they react to being called a babykiller? We do. I can't say aside from purely anecdotal "people who come in and out too quickly to be having a procedure" evidence, but they usually react the same as everyone else: ignore the antis or tell them to gently caress themselves.
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Dec 7, 2015 00:27
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fosborb posted:That Vox article is quite the hot take. Source? I'm in contact with a -lot- of escorts and providers, and the overwhelming response has been "gently caress this guy, my clinic stays open." I'm not going to lie, there's been a lot of chatting about safety and anti active shooter training and whether concealed carrying is a good or bad idea (I lean towards bad, myself), but nobody I know has said they were quitting. Anecdotal, I know. My wife has reiterated that she's more and more worried about what will happen when I'm at the clinic, but has said she would never ask me to stop escorting. This isn't the first clinic violence, and unfortunately it's not gonna be the last. There's a lot of providers that have lived through a time (and still are in some cases) where bulletproof vests and federal Marshall guards were a reality. And they're still providing essential reproductive healthcare.
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Dec 7, 2015 00:37
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Source is several people I know in a regional PP network's HR dept. No one is saying Planned Parenthood is on the ropes, but absolutely staff quit in response to the shooting, and people cancelled job interviews, and last I heard the applications coming in have significantly decreased. It will probably quickly blow over, like it has every other time, but it's weird to call something terrorism and ignore that it actually, you know, terrorized people.
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Dec 7, 2015 04:39
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fosborb posted:Source is several people I know in a regional PP network's HR dept. No one is saying Planned Parenthood is on the ropes, but absolutely staff quit in response to the shooting, and people cancelled job interviews, and last I heard the applications coming in have significantly decreased. Something interesting to note is that with the exception of this and the Brookline, MA incidents all of the deadly clinic violence has occurred at independent clinics. I think it'll blow over, at least as far as applications and such goes. Surprisingly, none of our antis mentioned the shooting this Saturday. Couple of usually somewhat passive antis were a little more aggressive than normal, but we had pretty much our normal crowd. The only thing different is that we seemed to have more people stopping to thank us for being out -- various people also brought us coffee, muffins, and cookies. And of course got yelled at for their kindness by the antis, as bringing escorts coffee on a cold morning is turning your heart away from Jesus.
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Dec 7, 2015 05:30
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Soylent Yellow posted:Does your clinic offer other sexual health services apart from abortions? If so, what portion of patients turn up for routine examinations and STD tests, and how do they react to being called a babykiller? This happened to my wife when she went into a PP clinic for a pelvic exam and she had the protesters try to record her and shake their dead baby signs at her when she pulled into the clinic parking lot. Although apparently the anti-choice crowd really isn't that active where I am because she said it was four old men on the sidewalk, and they were so engrossed with their conversation that she was already in the parking lot before they turned on their video camera and started yelling at her.
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Dec 8, 2015 00:19
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Geoj posted:This happened to my wife when she went into a PP clinic for a pelvic exam and she had the protesters try to record her and shake their dead baby signs at her when she pulled into the clinic parking lot. If you walk down the same street as the clinic and you appear to possibly be menstruating, you're getting screamed at. Even if you walk by twice a day.
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Dec 8, 2015 01:25
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Do they ever actually succeed? Have you ever had someone not go in because of them?
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Dec 8, 2015 02:06
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MockTurtle posted:Do they ever actually succeed? Have you ever had someone not go in because of them? I've never seen an obvious "save," but they claim several hundred every year. If someone comes out having decided not to terminate a pregnancy we also wouldn't know, but hey, good on them. Because it's their choice. The antis, of course, prefer the narrative that anyone not vocally pro-life is obviously PRO ABORTION! and that we try to convince women to not listen to them and abort their babies. Pretty sure they think we get paid per woman we drag in.
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Dec 8, 2015 03:43
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I wonder if someone would be able to successfully press charges for recording them. I'm guessing since it's "in public"/not private property they can record whoever they like, but if I were going in for an abortion or pelvic exam or even passing through on my way elsewhere I'd be pretty pissed at being recorded. I really despise the whole unspoken threat of "we're going to doxx and ruin you for being a ruined woman/disagreeing with us."
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Dec 8, 2015 14:33
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SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL posted:I wonder if someone would be able to successfully press charges for recording them. I'm guessing since it's "in public"/not private property they can record whoever they like, but if I were going in for an abortion or pelvic exam or even passing through on my way elsewhere I'd be pretty pissed at being recorded. I really despise the whole unspoken threat of "we're going to doxx and ruin you for being a ruined woman/disagreeing with us." Nah, it's totally legal, but their intent is completely based on scaring patients. I've seen more than one anti get their cell smacked out of their hand. The antis, of course, get pretty cranky when you record them.
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Dec 9, 2015 04:30
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This is so strange. Firstly I live in Sweden and I don't think this ever happens here. At least. I've never heard of it happening. And secondly I believe all of our abortion clinics are just situated straight up inside or close to our regular hospitals. Why are your clinics not inside hospitals?
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Dec 9, 2015 15:48
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Affi posted:This is so strange. Firstly I live in Sweden and I don't think this ever happens here. At least. I've never heard of it happening. Slate had an article about this recently. tl;dr: following RvW, it was seen as better, both by hospitals and pro-choicers. Lately, I'm inclined to think the opposite.
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Dec 9, 2015 19:19
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My understanding, in concordance with the Slate article, is that there are no incentives for hospitals or other clinical care systems, private, nonprofit, any kind really, to perform abortions, and many incentives not to. Essentially a secondary effect of the genral political and cultural opposition to abortion.
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Dec 9, 2015 22:19
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