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what is the best form of transit
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  • Locked thread
Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

the LA Expo line to santa monica is delayed an extra few months cause a contractor forgot to put a drain near a huge dirt wall they built ('it doesnt rain in LA, who needs drains lol')

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Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

qirex posted:

san diego has a surprisingly competent bus/streetcar system for a southern california city, only $2.25 to the airport

their awful nimbys/olds are desperately trying to screw that up. their new (heavily nimby influenced) long term transit plan is perty bad

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

night owl service on weekends is Good
last train at 11:40pm on friday night like a lot of US systems is Bad

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

dcseankun posted:

How D.C. spent $200 million over a decade on a streetcar you still can’t ride

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...60446&tid=ss_tw

https://twitter.com/IsStreetcarOpen

i mean, $200m is still pretty cheap for a transportation project. especially in loving DC where I can't even fathom how lovely the politics game must be.

but yeah streetcars without dedicated lanes are pretty dumb as actual transportation, even if the property value/tax boost is nice

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

they haven't actually built the project yet. they built a barn and a test track for $200M.

also it's a streetcar. so it serves no purpose whatsoever. with $200M they could have set up a really nice bus line that would actually have been faster and more comfortable.

the track is done, its just short. at like $80m a mile its not a great deal, but its not really that crazy. LA's crenshaw light rail project is over $250 million a mile. charlottes Lynx streetcar extension (with no car barn) is like $60m a mile.

but i agree w/ you, streetcars without dedicated lanes arent really transit and a bus would probably work better for, you know, moving people.

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

los angeles is mostly dedicated right of way, so they are actually building stuff. that's why it costs 250 million a mile. (and when it's done, it might actually be faster than just walking to your destination.)

trust me i know, i was just comparing costs geeze gosh. like i said, its on the high end of streetcar prices in the states, but its not that absurd. most are around $60m a mile. streetcars are mostly for raising property values/taxes since developers love to come in and build generic mixed use lofts near them and rent them form $3k a month since they are 'near transit'

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

the downside of BRT in the states is that white/rich people hate buses, especially in some cities where they see buses as devices for subhuman pig people

my fav was looking through the public polling numbers for LA's measure R years ago and even with identical transit times, identical estimated capacity, identical headways etc... people were like 50% more likely to say they would ride something if it was labeled as a train instead of a bus, and like 80% more likely to say they wanted to live near it

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

at the date posted:

Just spitballing here, but maybe the reason the results were skewed was not the bigotry of those surveyed but (A) that trains are faster and more reliable than buses in every city on the planet, and (B) the people surveyed rightly paid no heed to projected figures about fantasy transit systems.

lol nah

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

youve also prolly ridden a rubber tire train if youve ever used a train/apm in an airport. most of those systems are rubber tire. they put less wear/tear on their right of way and can be smoother rides, but they arent any cheaper to build and the trains take slightly more maintenance

also lots of people in lots of cities take buses to work everyday in the US. like, millions of people

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

notorious b.u.s.

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

also ya we get it buses are bad, but they are also cheap and vital if you actually want to move people around and dont have 500 billion or a subway system already built pre-depression

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

Shaggar posted:

would still rather slit my own throat along with everyone else.

traffic problem solved then

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

'a' poutine

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

at the date posted:

The worst things to put on fries that I have heard of, an exhaustive list:

1. poutine
2. mayonnaise
3. cheese
4. ketchup
5. chili

Acceptable things to put on fries, assuming they are already salted:

1. vinegar, maybe
2. nothing

Fight me if you disagree. God grant victory to the just.
what a dingus

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

the free market does not want her to have a car,. the free market has decided and it will save us all. per hapes if we sacrifice additional goat to teh market it will provide again. we must build more statues for the market to look upon and be happy adn sacrifices more goat

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

pointsofdata posted:

Posting at 310km/h on a Spanish train. Pity that the USA doesn't have the population density or the money for this sort of thing.

we have the population density and the money, what we dont have is the politics

that said, 2016 is the biggest year in US history for transit, both in terms of project openings and stuff getting put to voters. really will decide the future of transit in the US.

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

Shaggar posted:

lol the northeast corridor would never be able to build a high speed train because everyone would demand that it stop in their town reducing the maximum speed to 50mph.

they already have one

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

Beeftweeter posted:

accela or whatever it was called still blew when i took it literally once because it was almost 4x the price as a plane ticket at the time and 3x slower

the prices are nearly the same now though but flying takes less than an hour

ive taken acela from DC to NYC or bmore a bunch of times and its def faster than flying if you count early arrival time at the airport and getting to JFK and crap. DC to NYC is 3 hours by acela to penn station, or an hour 15 minutes by air plus early arrival and a cab or subway ride. ill take the train.

also the price fluctuates but northeast regional is normally significantly cheaper than air, and about the same travel times if you include everything. acela is normally faster (and more comfortable) than air, and more expensive. also consistently sold out on prime days. funny enough, acela is normally full of douchey business types while the poors take the plane.

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

Beeftweeter posted:

it used to be like $80 boston -> nyc and i haven't had any problems getting to either airport on time. A train to JFK, silver line to logan. flight takes like an hour

in comparison accela was like $300 and took almost 3 hours

ur first problem was going to boston as shole!!

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

Shaggar non-compliant transportation opening in 2016 in North America:

Heavy Rail:
BART Warm Springs Extension - 5.4mi
New York’s Second Avenue Subway (Phase 1) - 1.3mi

Light Rail:
Dallas’ South Oak Cliff Blue Line Extension - 2.6mi
Denver’s R Line - 10.5mi
Los Angeles’ Expo Line (Phase 2) and Gold Line Extension to Azusa - 6.6mi and 11.3mi
Phoenix’s Northwest Extension (Phase 1) - 3.1mi
Seattle’s University Link and South 200th Link Extension - 3.2mi and 1.6mi

Commuter Rail:
the Bay Area’s SMART Train (Phase 1) - 43mi
Boston’s Wachusett Extension - 4.5mi
Denver’s A Line, B Line, and G Line - 23.5mi, 6.2mi, and 11.2mi
Los Angeles’ Perris Valley Line - 21mi

Streetcar:
Cincinnati’s Streetcar - 1.8mi
Dallas’ Oak Cliff Streetcar Extension - 1.9mi
Detroit’s M-1 Rail - 3.3mi
Kansas City’s Streetcar - 2mi
New Orleans’ North Rampart/St. Claude Line - 2.5mi
St. Louis’ Loop Trolley - 2.2mi
Seattle’s First Hill Streetcar - 2.5mi
Washington’s H Street/Benning Road Line - 2.4mi

Bus Rapid Transit:
Arlington Virginia’s Crystal City-Potomac Yard Transitway
the Bay Area’s Alum Rock/Santa Clara BRT
Denver’s Flatiron Flyer (U.S. 36)
El Paso’s Brio Alameda
Jacksonville’s First Coast Flyer Southeast Line
Las Vegas’ Flamingo Corridor
Mexico City’s Línea 6
Toronto’s Viva Highway 7 West/Vaughan
Vancouver Washington’s Vine

Major redeveloped stations:
Chicago’s Washington/Wabash Station
Los Angeles’ Bob Hope Airport/Hollywood Way Station
Miami’s Central Station
New Jersey’s Westmont Station
New York’s World Trade Center Transportation Center

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

just took Coaster from Encinitas down into SD. it was pretty good. the amtrak trains share track and blast through the little coaster stations at like 80mph and it's pretty nuts.

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

the LA metro trip planner is super super bad but thankfully they just gave all the data to google so you dont have to use it anymore

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

the 1970s were a weird, weird time

in retrospect, the DC/SF style systems probably offered a good balance of pandering to suburban voters while also offering urban benefits. in the long term, the construction and maintenance costs of electrified, grade separated heavy rail are probably worth it for the high ridership and dense development it can handle.

shame that Atlanta's similar system couldnt grow like its cousins but, you know, racists.

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

theflyingexecutive posted:

lol I just looked and those stops are so close together what the hell?

its old

they are combining two more soon i think

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

Bloody posted:

if your bus lanes have bollards they must be very separate from the actual road and basically are just dedicated busways?

i mean you can also just pour a curb between the lanes. thats what they do in a lot of places for bus lanes/streetcar lanes and whatevs

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

cool transit opening dates that got announced recently:

the 11.5 mile / 6 station LA gold line extension to Azusa will open March 5. travel times end to end to Union Station will be 50 minutes
and the 6.6 mile / 7 station expo line extension to Santa Monica will open May 21. travel times end to end to Metro Center will be 46 minutes

both of these will be massively faster than rush hour times according to googy maps

also in Seattle, the 3.5 mile / 2 station UW link subway extension will open March 19. this will be very cool because it includes a stop in the hipster area with lots of bars around and also at the UW stadium for games

ok cya

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

the problem with this thinking is that light rail sucks as much poo poo as a bus. people with money will not ride either one if they can avoid it, and nobody re-develops land for people who don't have money.
what? no.

studies have shown that people really want to live near rail, even if it's lovely service and they never take it. streetcars are to spur development and get tax bux not move people. nobody in most US cities cares about living near a bus line, even silver level BRT. bus routes get changed, are easily neglected by cities, and put off emissions.

also you're getting light rail (like the LA Blue line that moves 90k a day) confused with streetcars or something. exclusive ROW light rail can move a shitload of people, even with grade crossings.

from a pure moving people for the $ perspective, BRT is fantastic, and that's why nerds love it. but with induced demand making the traffic argument dubious, cities want transit that makes them the money to operate it or significantly change their city. rail may do that, BRT on average won't.

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

Chris Knight posted:

San Diego used to use the same rolling stock as Edmonton and Calgary and Frankfurt

Citizen Tayne posted:

Why is it surprising that a fail third tier city uses the same rolling stock as other fail third tier cities?

you can go ride em in a fourth tier fail city now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrotranv%C3%ADa_Mendoza

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

the terms heavy rail, commuter rail, metro, subway, light rail, and streetcar are completely blurred in one place or other in the US. cities built systems to their own specs/budgets/politics.

like the brown line in chicago being an elevated heavy rail metro that also has at-grade crossings. or the LA green line being a 100% grade separated system with high-floor cars... thats a 'light rail', although its cars are like twice as heavy as some other light rail systems. or Sacramento's light rail system thats really more of a commuter rail system at the fringes and streetcar in the center.

what im saying is those terms are bad

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

pointsofdata posted:

has anyone posted about how the DC metro is gonna shut down for all of tomorrow? because it is

i wonder if enough of the city will just call in sick that it will be fairly normal

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

first train to Santa Monica since 1953



extremely syck

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

Triglav posted:

i thought they were afraid of "HOODLUMS" coming up the blue line and switching for santa monica

they still are, the rich idiots in cheviot hills whined for decades to stop it but all they succeeded in doing is creating a gap in the nice bikepath built next to the line

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

pointsofdata posted:

That train looks like it's from 1953

close, but from 87-88

heres what the (loving ugly) trains that ran to santa monica actually looked like in 1953

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

seattle has low income fares, and los angeles has subsidized monthly passes, as well as free fare programs. phoenix and portland have free or discount fares they give out to low income serving non-profits.

basically lots of best coast cities do something, but a lot dont do enough

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

looking up the pop of maine is a big lol

there are 41 cities in the US with a larger pop than the whole state, and those 41 cities represent 2/3rds of all americans

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

Jonny 290 posted:

if you stink like rear end from huffing to work in boston in july u arent gonna keep that job buddy

stinking like rear end and unemployed, sure sounds like everyone else in boston fuckin gotem

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

LastInLine posted:

how are they in the rural and suburban areas because for that to work for 160 million americans thats important

iow shaggar was right

3/4s of americans live in metros larger than the biggest city in maine. shaggs was shaggin

also im not hand wringing over the horrible shitbirds in rural areas so much

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

Shaggar posted:

trail biking is a fun hobby and is a good use of a bike

even shaggar agrees that all cities should be filled with biking trails and cars banned wow

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

there are companies that are going to start making updated PCCs from scratch because so many cities are starting heritage streetcar lines

thats really funny to me

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Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

theflyingexecutive posted:

also that loving car thing is atrocious. you can be filmed making an illegal turn into a family going over the speed limit on a suspended license and get a ticket. a ticket you can dispute and win :psyduck:

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