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Blister posted:One has a college degree with training in biology, the other doesn't need any training. Healthly eating and exercise education across the world is uttery screwed up And the amount of money involved in what really is an industry more than a science now means there are dozens of fad diets people, try, fail, and give up on. sweek0 posted:We also have a food industry that is actively trying to create bad food addicts. For anyone who hasn't read it yet, I found The Extraordinary Science of Addictive Junk Food to be a real eye opener that encouraged me to create some changes in my own diet. Yeah I don't think this can be stated enough. Bad food is made to be addictive, and that continues to cloud what's already a pretty murky subject about weight, health, and social acceptance.
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Nov 23, 2015 21:42
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quote:I just had to unfollow a feminist blog I love because they started writing about weight loss in a positive way and wrote about how shows like Biggest Loser are “inspiring”. Lots of “health = weight” talk and implications too. It makes me really sad that a person who goes to bat for so many oppressed groups doesn’t really understand the ways that weight loss culture and shows like the Biggest Loser harm fat people and perpetuate our oppression. I’m disappointed. Yet again. quote:While I agree that shows like The Biggest Loser do more harm than good and objectify fat people, is it really such a crime to speak positively about weight loss? quote:Your blog description states that you used to be involved in the fat acceptance movement. If that is true, then you should be familiar with the research showing that fitness, not fatness, is the best predictor of disease and mortality, that many fat people are healthy (and many thin people unhealthy), and that health is a very broad and subjective construct and encompasses much more than the absence of disease. There is no reasonable middle ground with the HAES movement. Even acknowledging that there is a problem is considered a personal attack. Also, people usually use running as the ideal weight loss exercise, but it's really not. A beginner's strength building exercise is much better for actually burning fat but many give up on these early because the actual weight loss doesn't present immediately due to the weight of the new muscle. I have heard overweight people who didn't want to weight train because they were concerned that the muscle would be unattractive. Some people just don't have the will to lose weight or the will to admit their own short comings.
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Nov 23, 2015 22:52
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Phyzzle posted:Oh look: Chocolate Cheerios have the same number of calories as plain Cheerios. Most flavored varieties of cereal use a smaller serving size to make the calorie count appear lower than it actually is. In that example you gave, Chocolate Cheerios have the same number of calories as regular Cheerios because the serving size is 25% smaller.
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Nov 23, 2015 22:52
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Dreylad posted:Yeah I don't think this can be stated enough. Bad food is made to be addictive, and that continues to cloud what's already a pretty murky subject about weight, health, and social acceptance. True enough, this makes more sense than my previous posit of it being about HFCS insertion, it's more about the way that even cheap food has a lot of money behind why we buy so much of it.
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Nov 23, 2015 22:59
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SlipUp posted:There is no reasonable middle ground with the HAES movement. Even acknowledging that there is a problem is considered a personal attack. Weight training doesn't burn a significant amount of fat though
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Nov 23, 2015 23:02
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OneEightHundred posted:Oh look you fell for their stupid labeling trick. Nice job missing the sarcasm there chief. SlipUp posted:I have heard overweight people who didn't want to weight train because they were concerned that the muscle would be unattractive. Some people just don't have the will to lose weight or the will to admit their own short comings. This is entirely irrelevant to the obesity epidemic, however. The obesity epidemic is a crisis of public health that requires public solutions, and the approach of telling people to exercise or eat less on an individual level is not only a failure, it produces the justifications for treating obesity as an inherent and unescapable condition.
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Nov 23, 2015 23:03
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SlipUp posted:I have heard overweight people who didn't want to weight train because they were concerned that the muscle would be unattractive. This always makes me lol. They think they'll grow muscle like ASAP like it's a thing that doesn't take months of discipline haha.
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Nov 23, 2015 23:06
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Series DD Funding posted:Weight training doesn't burn a significant amount of fat though
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Nov 23, 2015 23:10
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The general idea is good, the problem is as usual the people who latch onto it as an excuse. With all the noise and complicated garbage and new wave poo poo, it can be an overload of information. Not to mention highly misleading labels (a 20oz bottle of soda having 2.5 serving was always my favorite because who the gently caress follows that? It's one serving, stop pretending) and other nonsense. Diets don't 'work' because half of them are stupid crash diet stuff and you can't make it temporary if you don't want to rubber back back when you've lost the weight. I know it was a bit overwhelming when I started losing weight but then I just said gently caress it and stripped everything down to simple parts. I just started walking more, lifted weights, cooking more for myself and cut back on the garbage I ate. poo poo I probably lost 15-20 lbs by going from regular soda to diet soda and then switching to coffee/tea (actual tea, not the monstrosity known as sweet tea or the bottled tea that might as well be soda with all the sugar stuffed into it) and water. I think it's a good idea to say 'hey just because they're fat doesn't mean you should make fun of them or bully them' but it's not a good idea to suggest it's okay to be overweight or obese barring an actual medical condition (like you go to the doctor and they confirm it, not reading tumblr and saying you have thyroid issues, PCOS or whatever "I can't lose weight because I have x" is en vogue now). People should be encouraged to be healthy simply because being healthy is a nice feeling, getting good sleep is cool, fitting into clothes that can't double as a tent in an emergency is cool and not dying of a preventable condition at 50-60 is cool. Not to mention the social and medical costs later on in life. It's an uphill struggle with how misleading restaurants and food companies can be though.
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Nov 23, 2015 23:26
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Mr. Wookums posted:Define "burn;" it's better than cardio. I can't find studies for weight training right now, but running is around 100 calories per mile: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22446673/
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Nov 23, 2015 23:41
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SlipUp posted:Also, people usually use running as the ideal weight loss exercise, but it's really not. A beginner's strength building exercise is much better for actually burning fat but many give up on these early because the actual weight loss doesn't present immediately due to the weight of the new muscle. Series DD Funding posted:Weight training doesn't burn a significant amount of fat though The problem is with the term "weight loss" because it's not specific enough to express what most people actually want. Weight training doesn't help at all with "weight loss" and in fact is often actively counterproductive. Unless you weigh 600lbs though what you really want is probably not weight loss but fat loss or to be even more pedantic, body recomposition. Most people want to both lose fat and gain (or at least maintain) muscle so that the proportion of body mass comprised of fat is reduced. This is why weight training is so important because if you're eating at a caloric deficit to lose fat, weight training is the only way to prevent your body from also shedding muscle. This is why it's important to make the distinction because shedding muscle is "weight loss" but it's the polar opposite of what most people are going for. Exercising to "burn fat" is really not much different from a body composition standpoint that just not eating those calories in the first place, so if you really want to you could just replace the activity with diet with no effect on body composition. Weight training on the other hand cannot be replaced by diet, it's the only effective method (other than perhaps steroids) to prevent muscle loss while eating at a deficit. MaxxBot fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Nov 24, 2015 |
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Nov 23, 2015 23:42
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Stanos posted:Diets don't 'work' because half of them are stupid crash diet stuff and you can't make it temporary if you don't want to rubber back back when you've lost the weight. You can see this just in the phrasing people use: "I'm going on a diet", versus say "I'm changing my diet".
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Nov 24, 2015 01:33
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computer parts posted:You can see this just in the phrasing people use: "I'm going on a diet", versus say "I'm changing my diet". This is a really interesting observation that I never thought about. I guess it communicates pretty clearly that while people might understand how to lose weight (eat less stuff), they don't necessarily understand the process to keep it off (a lifestyle change, which involves eating less stuff)
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Nov 24, 2015 02:11
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Series DD Funding posted:Weight training doesn't burn a significant amount of fat though Weight training is way better for losing fat, though, because muscle maintenance will passively burn more calories. A totally idle person with very little muscle will burn far fewer calories than an idle person with lots of muscle. There are a lot of benefits to building some muscle, besides. This is one of the biggest issues society has with weight loss/fitness, though. Changing one's diet is an important tool in fat loss and a healthy lifestyle, but if you managed to convince everyone to exercise instead of changing their diet, we'd be a lot thinner and in a lot better shape. I was really fat in high school (almost 300lbs at my worst) and diets never really worked for me until I started lifting weights. Now I'm a hundred pounds lighter and as long as I work out ~3 times a week and don't shotgun hamburgers I don't gain a pound. Plus I never get sick as often as I used to, sleep way better, have more energy etc. etc. etc. Everyone should lift weights. Anyway HAES is important because it allows fat white women who are economically comfortable enough to blog and tweet constantly to be Extremely Oppressed. How else could they claim the moral high ground on Tumblr? e: Hello friend. Do you have a moment to talk about Our Lord and Savior, the deadlift? VVV Pentecoastal Elites fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Nov 24, 2015 |
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Nov 24, 2015 02:12
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Onion Knight posted:Weight training is way better for losing fat, though, because muscle maintenance will passively burn more calories. A totally idle person with very little muscle will burn far fewer calories than an idle person with lots of muscle. There are a lot of benefits to building some muscle, besides. This is a public health issue, not a religious one. Keep your conversion stories out of this thread, goddammit.
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Nov 24, 2015 02:15
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Onion Knight posted:Weight training is way better for losing fat, though, because muscle maintenance will passively burn more calories. A totally idle person with very little muscle will burn far fewer calories than an idle person with lots of muscle. This is another pernicious fitness myth: http://weightology.net/muscle/the-50-calorie-per-pound-of-muscle-myth.html/
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Nov 24, 2015 03:42
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Series DD Funding posted:I can't find studies for weight training right now, but running is around 100 calories per mile: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22446673/ Though its higher if you're heavy and out of shape.
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Nov 24, 2015 05:23
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Isn't running horrible on the joints, though? Swimming seems much superior. Why don't people talk about swimming?
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Nov 24, 2015 08:04
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meristem posted:Isn't running horrible on the joints, though? Swimming seems much superior. Why don't people talk about swimming? Swimming is probably the perfect exercise considering the ease on the body and the amount of calories you burn just being in the water. Problems tend to be more of an access to appropriate pools. Especially good indoor pools during the colder months.
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Nov 24, 2015 08:18
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Running isn't bad for your joints if you have good running technique. As someone who does both running and weightlifting, I would say that running is probably considered more fun by most people. I think so anyway. And in the end the best exercise is the one that you'll stick with and all that.
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Nov 24, 2015 10:00
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The problem with the entire discussion is that exercise is a red herring. Weight loss is decided almost entirely by a person's diet. Going off the link posted earlier, 100 calories for a mile run is a piss poor amount to burn, especially for a fat person starting out who is certainly not going to make it running a mile. For some perspective, C25K is a month long program to just get to jogging 5000 meters. Going 3 times that distance is a pretty huge deal for people struggling with their weight. Exercise is great for overall health and fitness (obviously) and is necessary to actually becoming healthy but it's effect on weight loss itself is something that I, as an obese person losing weight, don't even keep track of because there's no point. We should absolutely be trying to get more people exercising but a lot of people greatly overestimate the amount of calories burned doing most activities. My store manager can't figure out why I haven't dropped into stick thin weight yet because I ride all of 6-8 miles a day on bicycle because he doesn't understand that I'm not really burning a whole lot of calories compared to my total daily intake or expenditure.
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Nov 24, 2015 10:05
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Berk Berkly posted:Swimming is probably the perfect exercise considering the ease on the body and the amount of calories you burn just being in the water.
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Nov 24, 2015 15:27
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Canine Blues Arooo posted:Wait, is JFairFax being serious? I thought that was just some copy/paste crap from thisisthinprivilage that was posted for humor on this here comedy website, but if it's a serious post, then loving lol. it's from this is thin privilege - which I check every few days for a good chuckle
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Nov 24, 2015 15:51
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Series DD Funding posted:Weight training doesn't burn a significant amount of fat though Exercise in general doesn't burn a significant amount of fat. The best example is those bariatric patients that literally can't get out of bed, let alone do any form of exercise. Diet in general is way more important than exercise in weight loss, and people's notions of what makes a diet work are also flawed. People like to cite the laws of thermodynamics as if the human body was the perfect model of a closed system when the reality is that it is about as far from that as it's possible to get. Hell, most people aren't even aware that the "thermo" part of that isn't just a fancy nonsense word that's used to make it sound more impressive, and that thermal load is one of many factors that can contribute to body composition and weight gain/loss. A calorie is a calorie is a calorie is one of the most unhelpful pieces of "knowledge" surrounding obesity.
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Nov 24, 2015 16:46
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Gaining muscle mass is immensely more important than losing fat in an aesthetical sense. Compare people who lost tons of weight to people who kept more or less kept their weight by increasing muscle mass while doing exercise. Former looks like a cancer patient, latter looks like victory.
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Nov 24, 2015 16:55
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Well, obviously. When people say they want to "lose weight" they don't usually mean they want to lose all that pesky muscle and replace it all with fat because they'll be more cuddly. For losing fat, diet is way, way more important than exercise.
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Nov 24, 2015 17:09
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Series DD Funding posted:This is another pernicious fitness myth: http://weightology.net/muscle/the-50-calorie-per-pound-of-muscle-myth.html/ I'd also be surprised if the calories-burned-per-pound-of-muscle was linear with respect to total muscle mass. It makes most sense that it would start high, and drop off rapidly. Some butterball sitting on the couch who decides to start lifting might very well see 50 calories of extra burn per day for the first pound or two of muscle he puts on. I'm not saying he definitely does, but I don't think that your link busts such a "myth".
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Nov 24, 2015 17:19
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Ddraig posted:Well, obviously. When people say they want to "lose weight" they don't usually mean they want to lose all that pesky muscle and replace it all with fat because they'll be more cuddly. I'm trying to figure out what this post has to do with what I just said.
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Nov 24, 2015 17:29
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I've noticed that obesity discussions always seem to turn around topics of diet/exercise, public health interventions, and physical health facts. Those are fine and important subjects, but to me there is a far more important question (brought up on the last page but not followed through): is overeating an addiction? If overeating is an addiction, then the intervention of "telling overeaters to eat less food" is about as effective as "telling heroin addicts to use less heroin;" raising awareness about the negative health effects of obesity is about as effective as raising awareness about the negative health effects of smoking. Furthermore, if overeating is an addiction, discussing personal strategies for not overeating are marginally helpful at best (if you no longer overeat) and patronizing at worst (if you've never had a problem with overeating). That would be, again, like a lifelong non-drinker sharing their secret to never having become an alcoholic. If overeating is an addiction--and I think it is--then it would be good to acknowledge that the "usual" way of talking about overeating is unhelpful to those who overeat to the point of health risks. At the same time, I think there's about as much place for communities that seek to normalize obesity as there is for pro-ana communities, or communities of drug users that rationalize each others' habits. They are distinctly counterproductive. And yet, nobody ever felt better from having their problems written off as "a simple matter" of diet/exercise, or positive thinking, or drug abstinence. That only makes people feel worse. Basically, any strategy that addresses obesity must, first and foremost, to be supportive of obese people. And maybe that does look like "acceptance:" the same kind of acceptance and empathy one extends to addicts and anorexics.
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Nov 24, 2015 17:31
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Series DD Funding posted:I can't find studies for weight training right now, but running is around 100 calories per mile: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22446673/ deptstoremook posted:I've noticed that obesity discussions always seem to turn around topics of diet/exercise, public health interventions, and physical health facts.
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Nov 24, 2015 17:55
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Overeating absolutely is an addiction, one that like many addictions is exacerbated by stress and other factors (comfort eating is a real thing) Unfortunately people do tend to provide the same level of kindness and support that they extend to other addicts: They did it to themselves, they should just have the willpower to stop, etc. Mr. Wookums posted:It is nowhere near your parallels to addiction because of the lack of fatal withdrawal/overdose. This is only if you (wrongly) assume that all addiction is physiologically based. This is absolutely not the case. Many addictive behaviours/substances do not have fatal overdose or withdrawal effects. Rush Limbo fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Nov 24, 2015 |
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Nov 24, 2015 17:55
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Ddraig posted:Overeating absolutely is an addiction, one that like many addictions is exacerbated by stress and other factors (comfort eating is a real thing)
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Nov 24, 2015 17:57
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Mr. Wookums posted:It is nowhere near your parallels to addiction because of the lack of fatal withdrawal/overdose. Nonsense, if you stop eating you die and if you eat way too much way too fast you can cause organ bursting that also leads to death. 
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Nov 24, 2015 18:05
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Inferior Third Season posted:It's not a "myth" just because it isn't some arbitrarily high number. Even the guy is saying that he gets an extra 200 calories per day extra burn from the muscle mass, which is a considerable fraction of a 2000-3000 calorie diet. I guess if you want to consider a 10% change a huge increase you can  The time spent just maintaining that mass could be spent doing cardio to burn an equivalent amountdeptstoremook posted:If overeating is an addiction, then the intervention of "telling overeaters to eat less food" is about as effective as "telling heroin addicts to use less heroin;" raising awareness about the negative health effects of obesity is about as effective as raising awareness about the negative health effects of smoking. You mean in that it works? Maybe not so much for getting people to quit, but public health campaigns have worked to break the cycle of new tobacco users. Additionally, raising awareness can spur innovation that attempts to create healthier alternatives (like e-cigarettes)
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Nov 24, 2015 18:06
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Food is sort of a different beast, though, in that people actually need it to survive. You can just say no to alcohol, tobacco and drugs, trying the same thing with food will not end well.
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Nov 24, 2015 18:25
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Ddraig posted:Food is sort of a different beast, though, in that people actually need it to survive. You can just say no to alcohol, tobacco and drugs, trying the same thing with food will not end well.
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Nov 24, 2015 18:27
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Mr. Wookums posted:Well then it can't be an addiction then huh? I've been a food addict for 27 years. I first got started in the womb when my mother was hitting up. After that I did everything I could do to score that poo poo for myself, but she was my main supplier for the first 16 years. I got some from other sources, but it was never as good as the home grown poo poo. I tried giving it up for a while, the withdrawal was a bitch. Got the shakes, light headed, chronic stomach pain. Never again. Tonight I've got my main man cooking up some of the good stuff for me and bringing it round.
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Nov 24, 2015 18:34
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Ddraig posted:I've been a food addict for 27 years. I first got started in the womb when my mother was hitting up. After that I did everything I could do to score that poo poo for myself, but she was my main supplier for the first 16 years. I got some from other sources, but it was never as good as the home grown poo poo.
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Nov 24, 2015 18:35
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Maybe you should rephrase it to lovely food addiction. What's hard for most obese people isn't to stop eating, but stop eating the awful stuff that at the same time has 2k calories and makes you crave for more.
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Nov 24, 2015 18:37
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Treating it as an addiction, though inferior for the purposes of dealing with the epidemic, would be superior to the religious narrative people have around obesity, where the people who manage to drop in weight and keep it off commonly hate those who haven't with the fervor of the fresh convert.
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Nov 24, 2015 18:38
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