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khwarezm posted:This is what annoys me more in this debate, its incredibly easy to just tell people to stop eating and that weight loss is self-directed and easily controllable, we've been doing it for decades and evidently it hasn't made a lick of difference on a large scale. People are getting fatter just about everywhere, we'll always get somebody like the poster above me saying 'Well I did it easy enough, why can't you?' but people are just not losing weight at all effectively despite vast amounts of time and money spent on diets or similar programs. Evidently its a lifestyle problem and we're failing to address it, what gives? It's a problem of misinformation and general ignorance. People suck at doing research and people suck even more at discerning actual research from bullshit like that slate article. Most people simply don't know how to discern truth from farts, which is why the diet pill industry is valued in the billions annually. The result is people try so much stuff that *doesn't* actually involve managing caloric intake, and then complain about how 'diet' and exercise just don't work! quote:You seem skeptical about the notion of thin privilege, but there seems to be something going on, for example fat women are usually treated more harshly by male jurors, and fatter women seem to earn less than their thinner counterparts, it seems to more harshly effect women, probably as a side effect of notions of attractiveness, though a lot of this could also be related to class and race factors that haven't been taken into account here. 'Thin Privilege' is a thing, but labeling it as 'privilege' is pretty drat offensive to people who are marginalized and have no way of personally fixing it. If you want to take advantage of all the benefits of being not fat, then eat less. If you want to take advantage of all the benefits of being white or male, then better luck next life.
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Nov 23, 2015 09:40
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endlessmonotony posted:I argued eating less does not work for losing weight ITT, the law of conservation of mass does not apply to fat people.
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Nov 23, 2015 18:53
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sweek0 posted:To be fair to them, I do think that long term behavorial change does very much require a change in mindset and that dieting and cutting out food groups entirely rarely leads to lasting change. Of course it does, but at a high level, it really is as simple as, 'energy in < energy out = weight loss'. I used to be around BMI 19 and saw myself go to 20, and then 21 on a lovely diet and instead of letting it get out of control, I started counting calories. Am I some hero for seeing this trend and saying, 'This needs to end right now'? I certainly think not. The kinds of people who impulsively eat and don't really care all the way up to bonafide obesity are not the kinds of people who are really willing to make a major lifestyle change. I don't totally fault them, because the other problem is that there are dozens of organizations out there that are ready to make excuses for them, which they then gladly parrot. To that end, I think an honest education is the most important tool. Don't make excuses for other people. That doesn't mean you say, 'you're fat cuz u have no self control'. But instead, it should be, 'Hey, losing weight is a discipline and even after it's gone, you'll have to change your habits forever', and that kind of education should start as soon as possible.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:22
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Monaghan posted:You could argue that practically it's pretty much useless for weight loss. The real equation is almost calories you are taking in compared to your basic metabolic rate. Doing poo poo like running for an hour at best means you can get an extra 300 calories in . There's a ton of other health benefits to exercise, but for weight loss, it's rather ineffective and should not be heavily emphasized when people talk about weight loss. I think this is good advice, but I do have an anecdote that made me rethink this a little, or at least got me thinking about reframing it. A co-worker of mine who was morbidly obese and had been for years was told by a doctor that he basically had a couple years to live unless he made radical changes. And radical changes he made. He went from playing WoW and watching Netflix to running literal marathons in the course of about 14 months. The transformation was un-loving-believable and he is first among people who I hold up as amazing success stories in the world of weight loss. That said, he did say that he doesn't know if he'd be capable of keeping it off without running. Running is now his thing, and when people ask him how to lose weight like he did, he insists that making running a hobby is a great way to start. It's worth noting that he ate nothing but these special bars that were basically 'nutrition on a stick' for 6 out of 7 days for a year. I mean, I've never seen someone shed weight like he did but I guess that's what happens when a doctor says, 'You're going to die dude...'.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:45
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Wait, is JFairFax being serious? I thought that was just some copy/paste crap from thisisthinprivilage that was posted for humor on this here comedy website, but if it's a serious post, then loving lol.
Canine Blues Arooo fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Nov 23, 2015 |
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Nov 23, 2015 20:34
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computer parts posted:You can see this just in the phrasing people use: "I'm going on a diet", versus say "I'm changing my diet". This is a really interesting observation that I never thought about. I guess it communicates pretty clearly that while people might understand how to lose weight (eat less stuff), they don't necessarily understand the process to keep it off (a lifestyle change, which involves eating less stuff)
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Nov 24, 2015 02:11
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JFairfax posted:it's from this is thin privilege - which I check every few days for a good chuckle Ah, very good! I just know of it's existence but never really have gone there.
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Nov 24, 2015 18:53
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Arglebargle III posted:Not surprising that this thread took an extreme left turn into pop-science flailing, but I think it's worth focusing on the fact that despite the problem being obvious and the solution being obvious, the obvious solution seems not to work at all. It's true that statistically very few obese people keep the weight off long-term, and it's true that the proportion of people who are statistically obese keeps climbing. What can be done about that? Education, which would hopefully lead to a Cultural revolution about how we think about health.
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Nov 24, 2015 20:17
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How effective would set a of economic policies be? There was (possibly untrue) report of some airlines requiring especially obese people to purchase two seats. How effective would a more universal set of those policies be? If you are overweight, you pay more your health insurance, not unlike the way tobacco users currently pay more. If you are require the use of a retrofitted seat on a public bus because of your weight, then you pay more for you ticket. If you ever incur a cost on society in some form because of your weight, you pay for it. Some casual searching seems to suggest that higher taxes on tobacco products are correlated to lower tobacco use in an area. Is this something that'd actually work?
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Nov 24, 2015 22:46
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fishmech posted:Yeah but on the flip side, a lot of people, if they stick to the 2000 calorie diet, they're going to balloon up over time until they reach the point that 2000 calories is now a stable weight diet (due to extra metabolism of the fat cells and associated things) By "a lot of people", you must mean females that are under 130 lbs, because that is who that number is targeting.
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Nov 25, 2015 20:52
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MaxxBot posted:It's probably too much for a majority of females and too little for the majority of men, as with most things using one single number is was too simplistic. 130lbs is about the 25th percentile of weight for women, but yes, a single number is never going to be accurate for everyone, which is why I still believe education is the key here. Everyone takes a health class. Everyone should leave 5th grade knowing what a calorie is.
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Nov 25, 2015 22:23
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fishmech posted:Knowing what a calorie is doesn't stop people from eating too much. Yeah, good point. gently caress education. Lets just hope people figure out that the 12 billion dollar diet pill industry is full of poo poo by themselves while they continue to dump money and resources into programs and drugs that don't work. That's a better alternative than teaching basic nutrition including, but not limited to, what a calorie is and what a carbohydrate is.
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Nov 25, 2015 22:31
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Cockmaster posted:It's like abstinence-only sex ed - it'd work perfectly if everybody just up and chose to follow your advice, but actually expecting them to do so is laughably unrealistic. This analogy doesn't work the way you think it does. If 'unprotected sex with strangers' is 'eating anything and everything you want', then 'abstinence' is the equivalent to 'starve yourself to a sub-20 BMI!'. Sex-education that emphasizes appropriate protection is where you want to be and that is our 'portion control'.
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Nov 26, 2015 06:25
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Mandy Thompson posted:Maybe instead of bullying people or using them as an object of mockery we should look at the root causes of the problem. If obesity is growing, then it cannot merely be a matter of personal choice. There are external factors causing obesity to grow. Personal responsibility is a scary thing. It has to be society's fault.
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Nov 28, 2015 20:51
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rscott posted:When fully 75% of adults are overweight and nearly 33% are obese it points to a societal issue, yes It's a societal issue because it's on a huge scale and affects things like how we build infrastructure and what not, but on an individual level, it's an individual's responsibility. Society didn't make you fat. You made you fat. Poverty is something that you can more firmly blame on society, not being overweight.
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Nov 28, 2015 22:05
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Mandy Thompson posted:If it was just a matter of "personal responsibility" it would not be a "growing epidemic." You can't look at a huge change like this and chalk it up to a wide spread lack of "personal responsibility" and get anything useful out of it, if you are looking for a solution. Why has there been such a wide shift in "personal responsibility?" Probably has something to do with the wide availability of cheap, available, calorically dense foods that are engineered to be eaten en masse. Or you could tell yourself whatever you have to so you can sleep at night.
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Nov 29, 2015 08:13
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Jhanez posted:As it turns out, the reasons people eat too much, eat like poo poo, and don't exercise enough are more complex than "fat people are weak willed and therefore morally abhorrent" so it makes sense that a discussion of a societal trend towards obesity would need to discover and investigate those reasons. I don't think he's saying that the underlying reasons why people eat too much is easy, but rather that the solution really is as simple as, 'Eat Less™'. Making excuses for doing anything else isn't productive and wrapping it in a package of, 'Well it's not an individual problem, it's a societal problem' is a great way of continuing to do nothing while we spin our wheels. Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to support a measure where you treat obesity like smoking: You actively discourage it, you have programs available to people who want to quit, and you charge more because by smoking, you are a tax on society and society shouldn't have to foot that bill.
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Nov 30, 2015 17:03
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