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piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



Illegal Move posted:

How many of you have to log your time on JIRA or something similar? Where I work, everybody is expected to log all working hours on the tasks they work on, and I'm wondering how common it is.

I feel like nobody at my office actually honestly works for 8 hours every day, but if you don't log all the hours, you get angry e-mails from management. I definitely have some days that are less productive than others, so sometimes I end up logging 2 hours on a task that really probably only should have taken 30 minutes. I'm starting to feel really guilty about this, and I keep thinking that somebody will question me about it and I'll get fired, but in reality, my team seems to be really happy with my work. Am I an rear end in a top hat for sometimes stretching the time I log?

My current workplace uses a time tracking thing, but I only work on one project so I just put 8 hours in to the project each day, very easy.

My last workplace though had a time tracking thing (two actually, for some dumb reason) and had you working on multiple things, and wanted you to make sure to log time in the projects each day. There was also never quite enough work to do for the whole day. What everyone ended up doing was just inflating the time they worked on things or finding projects with lots of slack to just throw time in. No one seemed to care or check that the time made that much sense. Just keep making the time work even if it's not fully accurate and don't worry until someone makes you worry about it.

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piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



Ithaqua posted:

My company uses spreadsheets for time tracking, despite time tracking actually being important and not bullshit micromanagement given that we're consultants and we charge people money based on these timesheets.
:ssh: both places I've worked for are consultancies that bill the client. At least with my new place there's no real issue since people are only working on one or two project at a time and are working on it all day so it's not hard to accurately log the time. That last place, not so much.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



Having to put a lot of effort in to time tracking was one of the big reasons I didn't like my last job. It's not so bad when there's not a lot of pressure to cover the whole day and it's more of a way of seeing how long things take, but once you start adding the pressure from management to have the full time it starts to really bum you out.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



Doc Hawkins posted:

I'll see your #noestimates, and raise you #noprojects.

:confused: That video is an ad for Clash Royale, did you mean this talk?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rzglax8LdaM

(by the way GOTO Conference on youtube is so great)

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



MrMoo posted:

That guy is really obnoxious to listen to, starting out with being wrong about GOTO and then he goes all "me, me, me".

It's also a bit too long of a talk, could easily be half the length and still drive the same point.

Here's some good videos because I have a playlist full of this poo poo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KRYH75wgy4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kA4-b7hvWhg

And I don't know if I can embed this one but this one is real good:

https://vimeo.com/9270320

piratepilates fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Mar 12, 2016

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



The 2016 Stack Overflow survey results were just published (somehow I always miss submitting data in the survey):

https://stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2016

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



Bongo Bill posted:

54.5% Javascript on the backend.

But does it mean JavaScript specifically for backend code - or JavaScript used as a backend developer. I can't figure out which one and just using JS at all as a backend developer would skew it higher.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



Pretty interesting that employed full time salaries are higher than self-employed and freelance/contractor salaries. I guess after business expenses the high contracting rates even out versus full time.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



Bongo Bill posted:

Backend developers are paid more than full-stack ones. Reminds me of.

I wonder if that's from a lot of full stack developers doing stuff like agency work or php+minor front-end work that would probably pay lower versus back-end developers that are working for more valuable teams.

Like if you were to exclude the full-stack developers that are using PHP I'm guessing the salary difference would even out.


I also really like how the female numbers are improving among the young groups, hopefully we'll see a much more equal workforce in the following few years.

piratepilates fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Mar 17, 2016

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



Skandranon posted:

The gently caress does Angular mean on the backend? Even if they are talking about pre-rendering Angular pages for fast loading, that is still a front-end concern.

I think they're back-end developers primarily (or by title) who end up doing a bit of angular development in their job, or they do backend development for a project that uses angular.

I'm actually really surprised at how prevalent angular is on the survey. I knew it was pretty popular but I figured React and Ember were at least closer to it in usage.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



Skandranon posted:

Angular2 is also going to crush it this year.

Well for everyone's sanity we can only hope.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



Gounads posted:

Please say there was a cake sitting in the break room, but she was already gone. Also, who was the first one to dig into it? That's the sociopath of the office.

We both know it was the CEO

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



HardDisk posted:

Man, I just took off 3 weeks PTO and the first day I was back I was already goofing off in the forums quite a bit. Is this burn out already?

Sounds like a good Monday to me.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



Vulture Culture posted:

8 hours isn't fine for one step (if the interview is based entirely on technical prowess and 0% on team fit, run the gently caress far away). It's fine if you're already between jobs because you can afford to be, or because you're an unencumbered twenty-something or early thirty-something with no other demands on that time. It's not okay for people with multiple jobs, people with children, people with elder care responsibilities, etc. This will be reflected in the demographics of the workplace.

What do people mean when they say they test for team fit? It's been a while since I went for interviews and I don't remember much about seeing if I fit in to a team. What would that even be? Making sure the person isn't an rear end in a top hat, or expecting everyone to be wearing suits at the company?

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



ratbert90 posted:

At my company Marketing is in charge of "Anything customer facing."
This includes the GUI of our product. That's cool; I can deal with that. But the marketing director hates engineering (engineering was apparently awful to work with years ago and the marketing director still thinks it's like that.) Even worse is that the marketing director is very good friends with the CEO and nepotism is giving him super rose colored glasses.



five months ago:

:v: Hey, the backend is almost feature complete, could you start working on a design for the GUI?

:downs: Sure can!




Three months ago:
:v: Hey, do you have a GUI? I am wasting a ton of time making sure all the features are working via front end api calls because I am forced to make a beta GUI and add these features temporarily.

:downs: Oh, we haven't started on it yet, you haven't provided 100% of the engineering spec.

:v: What? There is only one small issue remaining, there are 19 other pages you could have done in that time.

:saddowns: No, we aren't going to work on it at all until you give us 100% of everything.


This lead to a huge argument, a meeting with the CEO, the marketing director calling engineering a bunch of code monkeys, one of our engineers threatening to quit, and in the end, the CEO told me to just wait on the GUI until I had 100% of everything working. 10 minutes later in a private meeting with him, he agreed with me and wondered why the marketing director couldn't work on all the other parts of the GUI. Too late now!
I sent a email confirming that he wanted marketing to wait on the GUI until I could fix the last hardware issue, he agreed.


Two weeks ago:
:downs: We hired a guy to markup the javascript/html/css!

:v: WHAT? Who is he?
:downs: Oh, he's a senior web programmer we got from ROBERT HALF.


:negative: Did he provide code samples?
:downs: What are those?

:negative: How does he know how to layout the pages so I can integrate our backend code easily?
:downs: Oh, don't worry about that, we are paying him a lot of money, so he should do a great job!

:negative: Why wasn't I consulted AT ALL?
:saddowns: Marketing is in charge of the GUI, you don't need to worry yourself about any of that!


This lead to ANOTHER meeting with me telling the marketing director (politely) to take his head out of his rear end and please for the love of god just work with me. The CEO eventually just said, "well marketing didn't know they needed to do those things."



Two days ago:
:downs: Here is a ROUGH DRAFT of the GUI, what do you think?

:negative: Uh, I know it's a rough draft, but there are huge chunks of things missing that are in the spec. Why did this take so long? It's a simple bootstrap.js design, this shouldn't have taken almost 2 months.

:downs: Look, we just need you to start integrating the draft.

:colbert: No, you need to provide me with 100% of everything before I even start intigrating the GUI.

:saddowns: YOU ARE BEING UNREASONABLE!



This lead to another argument, more emails, another director getting involved that I was being "too mean." and that I should "tone it down."

At this point, I moved the project deadline another month weeks because marketing hasn't given me poo poo that I can work with. This lead to yet ANOTHER meeting were I people tried to blame me for the delay because I refuse to work 80+ hour weeks to get this done. The CEO asked me what it would take to get it done on time and quickly decided to agree with me when I said overtime pay.

Get a new job.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



ratbert90 posted:

I deal with marketing maybe 10 times out of the year. Those 10 times are absolutely awful but the other 99% of the time I love my job, coworkers, and bosses.

But when anything Marketing gets involved poo poo starts falling apart. Heck, I got RedWing suite tickets just a few days ago. It's loving awesome!

Oh, it's an automatic reaction I've started having reading in this thread, usually it works out pretty well.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



Greatbacon posted:

Update: My boss rejected 3 weeks of PTO for a biking trip in Spain, so I put in my two weeks :yotj:

I didn't even have time to tell you to find a new job, good job buddy!

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



I've never worked at a place that did real capital A agile (closest I've come is a month on a team that has daily standups and your tasks are assigned in JIRA) but it seems crazy over the top. Are people somewhere finding it actually helpful to go through all this effort with the points and all of this tracking and processes? I've never tried it but it seems like so much added complexity and bookkeeping for nothing.

piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



Che Delilas posted:

They've said it's "not set in stone" yet, and it's at least half a year away, so there may be time for me to conduct a campaign to get them to pull their heads out. I may have to resort to linking to Forbes articles since they don't seem to want to listen to the people that are actually creating the products they sell, but I'm going to give it a try.

But if they keep being stupid and insist on taking away a reason I have to put up with substandard compensation? Yeah, I'm out.

What's so great about this company versus others that you want to stay after they pull dumb moves like this?

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piratepilates
Mar 28, 2004

So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it.



whats for dinner posted:

This is the problem I had early on with my current job and basically the same rules I followed to separate work from the rest of my life. As a result I've been much happier and learned a bunch of cool new stuff.

My boss, however, is all in on the company: he'll update jira cards, post troubleshooting remarks in slack, make commits, send emails, open (and review) pull requests at all hours and on weekends. He also refuses to accept that it sets a bad precedent for everyone else.

A "Clueless"/sucker according to the Gervais theory, one might say.

https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/

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